tornado
09-28-2005, 08:44 AM
It is also hard to assess players who come from Class A schools.
Most, even when highly touted turn out to be busts in college, and I will give a few examples.
in 2003 Nick Brooks was the top rated Class A player in the state, and got all kinds of praise as a solid D-I player, with predictions that he might go Big Ten. Well, he got very few D-I offers, chose Butler and was a huge bust. In his freshman season they gave him every chance to succeed, playing him in every game, even starting him a couple. He looked promising at times, but disappeared when they needed help & depth.After another disappointing season his sophomore year, he quit the team seeing he just didn't have a future at Butler. Come on, now, if a kid can't break into the rotation at Butler, there are serious doubts he is going to play D-I anywhere.
In 2004 the top player for the top team in the state, Frank Clair of Chicago Leo was touted as a lock in D-I and certainly a chance of stardom at mid-major Northern Illinois University.
Well, just the opposite occurred. in his frosh year, Clair stunk it up. He was given every chance and couldn't even score ONE point per game. The fact that he flunked out didn't help the guy either. He was worse than a bust and reinforced the concept that D-I schools maybe need to stay away from most Class A players. Tracy Robinson was also one of the top Class A players and hasn't gotten the time of day yet at Loyola.
Do I even need to bring up Pierre Pierce? Chris Burras, Dusty Bensko, etc.
Nate Minnoy was more highly touted than Jon Scheyer. Nate was talked up like he was the second coming of Michael Jordan. In the end he accepts a scholarship from talent-starved Purdue, and still might struggle there as his 6'3" frame just may have a bit of trouble playing forward against James Augustine & the like. The jury is still out, but lots of people have doubts at this point.
Now come Randle, McGee, etc. We'll see, but as I posted elsewhere, onnly a few people have actually seen Javalle McGee play. Sure he is 7 ft., but the only reports I have seen from actual eye witnesses say he is thin, slow, clumsy, and far from being a talented basketball player. As I noted, he appears not to have actually played any basketball at Detroit country Day School where he transferred from.
BradleyBrave
09-28-2005, 09:02 AM
It is also hard to assess players who come from Class A schools.
Most, even when highly touted turn out to be busts in college, and I will give a few examples.
in 2003 Nick Brooks was the top rated Class A player in the state, and got all kinds of praise as a solid D-I player, with predictions that he might go Big Ten. Well, he got very few D-I offers, chose Butler and was a huge bust. In his freshman season they gave him every chance to succeed, playing him in every game, even starting him a couple. He looked promising at times, but disappeared when they needed help & depth.After another disappointing season his sophomore year, he quit the team seeing he just didn't have a future at Butler. Come on, now, if a kid can't break into the rotation at Butler, there are serious doubts he is going to play D-I anywhere.
In 2004 the top player for the top team in the state, Frank Clair of Chicago Leo was touted as a lock in D-I and certainly a chance of stardom at mid-major Northern Illinois University.
Well, just the opposite occurred. in his frosh year, Clair stunk it up. He was given every chance and couldn't even score ONE point per game. The fact that he flunked out didn't help the guy either. He was worse than a bust and reinforced the concept that D-I schools maybe need to stay away from most Class A players. Tracy Robinson was also one of the top Class A players and hasn't gotten the time of day yet at Loyola.
Do I even need to bring up Pierre Pierce? Chris Burras, Dusty Bensko, etc.
Nate Minnoy was more highly touted than Jon Scheyer. Nate was talked up like he was the second coming of Michael Jordan. In the end he accepts a scholarship from talent-starved Purdue, and still might struggle there as his 6'3" frame just may have a bit of trouble playing forward against James Augustine & the like. The jury is still out, but lots of people have doubts at this point.
Now come Randle, McGee, etc. We'll see, but as I posted elsewhere, onnly a few people have actually seen Javalle McGee play. Sure he is 7 ft., but the only reports I have seen from actual eye witnesses say he is thin, slow, clumsy, and far from being a talented basketball player. As I noted, he appears not to have actually played any basketball at Detroit country Day School where he transferred from.
Great post. All the more reason we should stop wasting our time with JJ Tauai.
tornado
09-28-2005, 11:46 AM
I agree tornado that coaches need to be more careful when evaluating Class A players. No doubt. However with all the AAU and summer tournaments I think that job is getting a bit easier. In AAU you play against everyone, regardless of class. I guess the cream will rise to the top either way.
There are certain expections to this Class A thing. Pierre Pierce was actually a really good player at Iowa but his off the court stuff got him in trouble. Also, Dusty Bensko was never rumored to be a Division I basketball recruit. He was always just a nice Class A player. He was always a bigtime baseball prospect and had a nice career at Illinois.
Also Shawn Jeppson had a decent MVC career as did Clint Cuffle (a guy I wish BU would have gotten). Reed Johnson at Evansville was good, Paul Lusk at SIU and there are quite a few more.
However I do agree...you have to be more careful when looking at these guys but of course, I would never just NOT recruit a guy because he plays at a smaller school.
Beano-there are always some exceptions, and I never meant to say all Class A players are weak, but only that you have to look close, and especially look at who they played.
Pierre Pierce, like Luther Head from Manley, had played against the top Chicago area talent for years, so they differed a bit from guys like Tauai, Cuffle, Jeppson, Brooks, Carlton Fay, Lucas O'Rear, etc.
But you have strengthened my point by bringing up Cuffle, Johnson, Lusk, etc...as these guys turned out to be, at best, role players at the mid-to-low D-I level.
But even, as you say, trying to evaluate them at AAU events & "Exposure" events like the one by Mac Irvin recently can be VERY misleading. Very little hard defense is played at these venues, and the players' positive attributes are HYPED to the max, and seemingly nobody mentions or notices the deficiencies. Remember, JJ Tauai DID play AAU ball against the likes of kids from Vachon and Chicago schools.
Read this story about a top level event, comparable to an AAU tournament, that was held at UNI. Now this is no biddy ball event, as it was hosted and reviewed by Van Coleman. Coleman is arguably the top and most widely reknowned high school talent evaluator in America (according to some). But obviously something ($$) must be going to his head, as he says wild things here.
He labels numerous totally unknown Iowa, small school kids as TOP, HIGH Division I prospects. This is ludicrous, as only 1 or 2 top D-I prospects come out of the Iowa cornfields every year or two. Surely ain't going to be dozens as this guy Coleman states unequivocally in this article (for pay, on a subscription site).
Look at the terms he uses:
"unstoppable in the post" is the term he uses for 6'6" Worner, who concentrated on baseball during his four years at tiny Denver, Iowa High School, and the kid has never played AAU basketball!! I will bet my home against your dime that "unstoppable" will NOT be the terms used when this kid goes to Drake and plays against Patrick O'Bryant, give me a break!!
Worner, in particular, is highlighted as a HIGH D-I guy, but only one D-I school in the country even offered the kid a scholarship, and he took it (Drake---- hardly a hi-D-I).
http://iowapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=458252
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"September 22, 2005
Future Stars Shootout Draws 200 to UNI
Future Stars
Special to IowaPreps.com
CEDAR FALLS - Bellevue Marquette's Jordan Eglseder, headed for UNI and Denver's Keith Worner, committed to Drake University headlined more than 200 boys and girls basketball players in attendance at last weekend's Future Stars Midwest Supershowcase at the University of Northern Iowa.
Future Drake Bulldog Keith Worner performed well at the fall Future Stars Shootout.
More than 60-college coaches from Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska and South Dakota were in attendance at the event, the first Future Stars shootout ever held on the UNI campus.
Van Coleman, Hoopmaster's President and Future Stars Director of Scouting, evaluated each athlete in the Shootout and identified these players as the top players in the event. Note ... underclassmen listed and their ratings represent a current status of potential ability. Ratings do not suggest a CEILING of potential.
BOYS
L.A. Pomlee - 6-9 205 lb sophomore, Davenport Central - High Major Division I to Impact Player Division I
Jordan Eglseder - 7-0, 275 senior, Bellevue Marquette (UNI) - High Major Division I
Brent Barz - 6-9, 195, junior, Johnston - High Major Division I
Andy Nagel - 6-8, 230, sophomore, Ft. Dodge St. Edmond - High Major Division I
Mike Bisenius - 6-9, 185, junior, Emmetsburg - High Major Division I
Keith Worner - 6-6 200, senior, Denver (Drake) - High Major Division I
Jordan Printy - 6-4, 170 junior, Linn-Mar - High Major Division I
Tyler Storm - 6-6, 190 sophomore, JD Darnall, Geneseo, IL - High Major Division I
Clayton Vette - 6-7, 220, junior, Waverly-Shell Rock - High Major Division I
Tyrell Thompson - 6-4, 185, senior, John F. Kennedy Catholic (New York) - Mid-Major to High Major Division I
Quinton Van Arsdale - 6-2, 195, sophomore, Waterloo East - High Major Division I
Alex Kramer - 6-7, 185, junior, Nashua-Plainfield - Low Major to Mid-Major Division I
GIRLS
Yvonne Turner - 5-8, 136 senior, Bellevue East (NE) - High Major to Impact Player Division I
Brittney McKowen - 5-8, 147, junior, Wapsie Valley - High Major Division I
Shelby Smith - 5-8, 135, freshman, Des Moines East - Division II to Low Major Division I
Mara Mercado - 5-3, 130, junior, Watosha Central (WI) - Division III to Division II
THE NEXT GROUP
Brian Metz - 6-8, 230, Senior, Tri-County Thornburg - Division II to Mid-Major Division I
Marquez Davis - 6-1, 170, Junior, Davenport West - Division II to Low Major Division I
Nate David - 6-7, 203, Senior, Dubuque Hempstead - Division II to Low Major Division I
Lee Parker - 6-7, 180, Sophomore, Nashua-Plainfield - Division II to Low Major Division I
Tavian Pomlee - 6-0, 160 7th Grader, Davenport Central - Division II to Low Major Division I
Zach Bohannon - 6-2, 160, Freshman, Linn-Mar - Division II to Low Major Division I
John Lamb - 6-1, 187, Junior, Indianola - Division II to Low Major Division I
Cody Protsman - 6-3, 170, Senior, Clark County R1, Kahoka, MO - Division II to Low Major Division I
Jordan Harrelson - 6-4 155, Sophomore, Cedar Rapids Xavier - Division II to Low Major Division I
Baley Johnson - 6-2, 175, Sophomore, Des Moines Lincoln - Division II to Low Major Division I
Matt Karls - 6-5, 180, Junior, Verona, WI - Division II to Low Major Division I
Drake Adams - 6-1, 165, Senior, Crete-Monee (Chicago, IL) - Division II to Low Major Division I
Brian Larson - 6-1, 180, Senior, Pleasant Valley - Division II to Low Major Division I
Keith Kuentsling - 6-7, 225, Senior, Dunkerton - Division II to Low Major Division I
Marcus Allen - 6-0, 160, Senior, Mason City - Division II to Low Major Division I
OTHER NOTABLES
Matt Ayers - 6-3 180, Junior, Green City, MO - High D3 to D2
Nathan Elliot - 6-9, 200, Junior, Center Point-Urbana - D3 to potential D2
Jacey Heuer - 6-7, 180, Junior, North Butler - D3 to potential D2
Nathan Trueblood - 6-4, 190, Junior, Dixon, IL - High D3 to potential Division II
Carrington Daniel - 6-6, 200, Junior, Clark County R1 - High D3 to potential Division II
Nathan Hetmanek - 6-7, 180, Senior, Millard South (NE) - JUCO through Division II
Matt McCabe - 6-3, 185, Senior, Mt. Pleasant - High Division III to potential Division II
Sean McNamee - 6-2, 165, Junior, Rochelle (IL) - High D3 to potential D2
Vaughn Page - 5-9, 155, Junior, MacIntosh High School (Atlanta, GA) - High D3 to potential D2
Elijah Miller - 6-1, 170, Junior, Galva-Holstein - High D3 to potential D2
DJ Smith - 5-11, 160, Senior, Dubuque Hempstead - JC to potential D2
John Pribnow - 6-8, 210, Senior, Fremont (NE) - High D3 to potential D2
Chase Baumgartner - 6-1, 170, Junior, Johnston - High D3 to potential D2
TOP PERFORMANCES IN THE SHOOTOUT - While the competition both days was exceptional, of note was the overall play of Waverly-Shell Rock's Clayton Vette, Denver's Keith Worner, Johnston's Brent Barz and Eglseder on the inside. Those players were next to unstoppable in the post.
John F. Kennedy Catholic's Tyrell Thompson, a long, athletic 6-4 point guard turned heads with his acceleration, three-dimensional scoring ability, and defense. Youngster Quinton Van Arsdale may be the next big thing out of the Waterloo area, showing long range scoring ability and great decision making for a young player. 7th grader Tavian Pomlee of Davenport Central, a 6-0 160 point guard and younger brother of L.A., the top-rated potential talent in the event, showed the glimmers of future stardom.
On the girls side, Bellevue East's Yvonne Turner wowed the evaluators with her speed, quickness, defensive intensity and scoring ability ... She's smooth and polished, and as Van noted, "adding strength, she goes from High Major Division I to the big time." Wapsie Valley's Brittney McKowen (sister of Brooks) showed that scoring ability runs in the family with deep range, and the ability to take it off the dribble.
Evaluators at the event included Jon Cox, former UNI assistant, Martin Brothers Director Hank Huddleson, and Future Stars directors Mark McLaughlin of Harlan and Damon Vogt of Columbus, Nebraska.
"This event may have been the most highly competitive in our three years of conducting Future Stars events,"McLaughlin said. "Van had his hands full evaluating players, and we all agreed ... it was an excellent shootout event."
College coaches interested in feedback and evaluations on any athlete in attendance at this process may contact Mark at 712-755-7756 or Van at (319) 626-6866. Van's scouting service ratings on this event will be available in the next edition of the Scouting Service Magazine.
FUTURE STARS UPCOMING SHOWCASE EVENTS -
October 8-9 - Normal West, Bloomington, IL
October 15-16 - JG Center, Deerfield, IL
November 5-6 - Midtown YWCA, Minneapolis
Register online at www.futurestarsonline.com or call Mark at (712) 755-7756 for personalized sign up.
FUTURE STARS ANNOUNCES SPRING SHOOTOUT - Drake University's Knapp Center in Des Moines will play host to the 16th Annual Future Stars Midwest Supershowcase Good Friday and Saturday, April 14-15. Registration will open for this event October 1.
More than 500-players are expected for this event, which will include some interesting additions, and reflect new changes in NCAA Legislation pertaining to scouting and attendance of coaches which will be to the advantage of participating athletes.
Van Coleman, the Midwest's top evaluator, and exclusively working in this role with Future Stars will headline the scouting staff in this spring event."
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Van Coleman does this stuff for pay, and hypes the kids (even the 7th graders for golly sakes) for PAY. Virtually NONE of these kids have come within 500 miles of tough AAU play, and in particular, Jordan Eglseder. Obviously the kid might do fine at D-I UNI, but he played 5 games in the "Prime Time League" in Iowa against mostly average college, juco, and high school kids. Only a few players in this entire league were of "HIgh D-I" caliber. Jordan didn't even dominate his own team as Euro-has been, Dean Oliver outscored him a ton and players like Greg Brunner & Seth Gorney (averaged ONE Reb/game at Iowa) outrebounded Jordan. The fact that FIFTEEN players in the leaguge averaged enough points per game that they would have been the MVC scoring champion if they did it in the MVC, tells you they were playing against weaklings on the court who chose NOT to play defense so everyone's scoring totals would look great.
Incredibly, 22 players in the league had shooting pct. of 60% or higher (as high as league leader Ali Farokhmanesh at 73%),
and 18 players had 3-pt FG% of 45% or higher (Grant Stout hit 67%!!), clearly shows why you can't use most of these summer events as anything other that a comic strip!!
tornado
10-01-2005, 08:49 AM
........
Read this story about a top level event, comparable to an AAU tournament, that was held at UNI. Now this is no biddy ball event, as it was hosted and reviewed by Van Coleman. ..............
There was a very similar event just held at Drake, like the one at UNI that was discussed a couple days ago.
The two notable differences are:
--this one was reviewed by Rivals, and not hypemaster (hoopmaster) Van Coleman.
--second, even tho lots of good Iowa kids were at this event, there wasn't a silly list of "high D-I" players. In fact, the best that was said of any prospect was very conservative:
"we didn't see any future NBA lottery picks or any D-I All-Americans, but what we did see was a nice collection of small college talents and a few youngsters with D-I potential."
This is a bit more believable, and I hope these kids do all have a shot at D-I, but it gets a bit incredulous when Van Coleman labels 1/2 the kids there as "high D-I".
http://iowapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=461388
(for those who cannot get the article, here it is, and note another Korver in there!)
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September 30, 2005
Elite Sports Fall Showcase Recap
Elite Sports USA
IowaPreps.com Editor
Last weekend, Drake University played host to the Elite Sports Fall Talent Showcase. Players from 5 states came together to display their abilities for the many college coaches in attendance. Kenyon Murray, a former McDonald's All-American, All Big Ten selection for Iowa, and college/professional coach, got things started with a short speech about the fundamentals of the game and to let the players know what the evaluators would be looking for. Afterward, the games got underway.
Matt Ryder of Pleasant Valley had a good showing at the camp.
When looking at the boys we didn't see any future NBA lottery picks or any D-I All-Americans, but what we did see was a nice collection of small college talents and a few youngsters with D-I potential.
A number of guards had big games, but nobody put on a consistently top notch performance. The trio of Wes Eikmeier, Mitch Westphal, and Matt Ryder did an outstanding job and both ends of the floor. In the post, Nebraska native John Pribnow had a really nice showing with his ability to rebound, block shots, and run the floor made him the standout post player in the event. With that said let's take a look at the top boys performers.
Boys All-Stars:
Ben Nieman 6-6 PF Clear Lake
Evan Summa 6-6 PF Johnston
Matt Lesan 6-3 CG Solon
Wes Eikmeier 6-1 PG Freemont (NE)
Matt Ryder 6-1 CG Bettendorf
Nate Veldhuizen 6-9 C Cedar Rapids
John Pribnow 6-8 C Ames (NE)
Marquez Davis 6-1 CG Davenport
Brad Burgus 6-3 G/F Osceola
Brett Putz 6-1 PG Forest City
Morris Smeader 5-11 PG Ankeny
Mitch Westphal 6-4 C/F Cedar Rapids
Best of the Rest:
Austin Morris 6-0 PG Muscatine
Grant Gibbs 6-0 SG Marion
Tavian Pomlee 6-0 CG Davenport
Jacob Wagg 6-1 SG Muscatine
John Lamb 6-1 CG Indianola
Klarc Korver 6-3 G/F Pella
Julian Dismute 6-2 SG Ft. Dodge
Justin Blondell 5-11 PG Moline
Matt Bowie 6-4 F Oskaloosa
Everybody always talks about the boys, but the girls were the cream-of-the crop at Drake. The group of girls was talented from top to bottom, but it was clear that Hoover point guard Cassondra Boston was the top player on display. She hit the trey, made the pretty pass, and finished off the bounce, and did it with style and flair. Forwards Gianni Beer and Brittany Pritchard proved to be dominant in the paint and both have very promising futures ahead of them. Here's a look at the top girls performers:
Girls All-Stars:
Cassondra Boston 5-5 PG Des Moines
Kira Gonzalez 5-7 G/F Olathe (KS)
Shelby Smith 5-8 PG Ames
Gianni Beer 5-9 PF W. Des Moines
Jenna Durr 5-6 G Montezuma
Brittany Pritchard 5-11 PF Norwalk
Jenny Dorman 5-8 G Pella
Becca Hurley 5-9 G/F Pleasant Valley
Best of the Rest:
Jayne Strand 5-11 G/F Ames
Ashton McClairen 5-5 G W. Des Moines
Sam Harrington 5-6 G Nashua
Tiffany Chandler 5-6 G Chariton
Molly McClelland 6-2 C W. Des Moines
Kaitlyn McCoy 5-8 G Colfax
All things considered the showcase went well, and we look forward to bigger things in the spring. We'd like to thank Drake University, the Des Moines Officials Association, Luke Feddersen, Kenyon Murray, Greg Stephen, Mike Anderson, and the rest of the staff at the 2005 Fall Talent Showcase.
Registration for our Elite Midwest Talent Showcase scheduled for March 25, 2006 will begin in mid-October. Please visit www.elitesportsusa.com to register or gather more information. Space is limited, so register soon as we do not accept walk-ups – no exceptions.
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