Support Bradley Basketball-UPDATE [Archive]

tornado

02-21-2006, 07:53 AM

And support the coaches and players as well.

Last night when I listened to the Jim Les radio show, Jim spoke of coach Mike Davis at Indiana, and mentioned how he knew Mike Davis and knew him to be a good and humble man who has been the target of some very unfair criticism and personal attacks.
Jim also mentioned that some similar personal and negative attacks have occurred here. He specifially mentioned some aimed at him and at one of the players, and how as a man he could take it, but that the attacks were a bit more difficult for the families and the players.

Well, I was motivated to send and e mail and let the coaches and the players know of my support and admiration for what they are doing.
They probably hear a whole lot more of the personal negative stuff than the positive stuff, I know I certainly do in what I see in print and on boards, as well as some personal criticisms.
I wanted to make sure they did hear from one fan who is appreciative and supportive. I hope other will send messages as well.

I encourage anyone who is similarly inclined to send a letter and email to tell the coaches and players of your support and encouragement.

Send your messages to the coach's secretary at
"jdiemer@bradley.edu"

or to Assistant A.D. for Communications, Bobby Parker,
"bparker@bradley.edu"

McFly

02-21-2006, 08:04 AM

I am curious if fans actually email coaches or colleges with attacks? How does a coach or player know if they are being attacked by fans? I didnt listen to the radio program, in fact I hardly ever do but do fans call in and voice their displeasure. If their main source for knowing anything negative is message boards I hope they are mature enough to realize that message boards are only a handful of people and of those a smaller percentage are negative and of those the number that "attack" are miniscule. I can appreciate you sending a positive message but I really dont understand how anyone can let a few anonymous folks on message boards be deemed as attacking. Just a thought

BUBraves2006

02-21-2006, 08:08 AM

Good thoughts ...

Unfortunately for a coach, I really think it is all about NOT being noticed. Here's a correlation for any of you church going folks: Noone notices the alter boy/girl until they trip or do something wrong. It's not a praiseworthy job but they certainly will hear about it afterward if they do something wrong.

As you can see on message boards, things are much more quiet after a win (even a big one) than after a loss. People tend to always expect a victory every time out and it's just unrealistic.

I stand by my thoughts that Jim Les is improving as a coach. I almost completely threw them out the window against Indiana State, but overall he is improving and that is what matters.

For every pat on back he gets, I'm sure he gets 3 slaps in the face. Sadly it is the business and he knows that is what he is getting into ... the only good thing about negativity is that the die hard fans will not tolerate mediocrity. He is expected to win because that is the tradition here. Nothing wrong with that! :D

user1

02-21-2006, 08:29 AM

I am curious if fans actually email coaches or colleges with attacks? How does a coach or player know if they are being attacked by fans? ....

I have heard from a source inside the athletic dept. that negative comments appear in letters, e mails, and in personal comments that people make at public Bradley events.
Sure, people are entitled to their opinions, but some of the stuff is very personal and unfair.
Surely you have seen the stuff on certain message boards about JJ Tauai and Brandyn Heemskerk, and undoubtedly you have stumbeld across a few comments on Jim Les that have escaped the moderators on certain boards.

Add to that the stuff that shows up on a regular basis in the newspaper columns and on message baords, and I guess I can understand fully how some of the stuff is viewed as over the top, and a bit more than is warranted in the setting of college basketball.

On his radio show, Jim's comments suggest that some of the personal stuff is indeed aimed directly at his family.

McFly

02-21-2006, 08:52 AM

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 10:19 AM

I think it's sad if people make things personal. I am not happy with losing, and I have opinions on people's performance, but that is where it ends. I have had interactions with just about everyone involved with the program, and they're all good people. This is about winning basketball, not about personal lives or agendas. There's no place for personal attacks.

Murph

02-21-2006, 10:32 AM

I think some fans do way too much obsessing over the perfomances of 18 to 21 year old kids. I love it when BU wins and hate it when they lose but I still sleep well at night either way.

tornado

02-21-2006, 10:32 AM

Well I suppose anything is possible and I suppose it takes all kinds...but I have never seen anything aimed at JL family anywhere.....And the stuff I have stumbled onto regarding him as a coach or any of the players is generally part of the territory. As I said, its just message boards and there are only a handfull of folks that are posters. True fans can be critical as well as positive.

Regarding emails and letteers to the University.....I have no way of knowing about that, but that is ridiculous. I suppose that sort of stuff does go on, there have been numerous stories nationaly...those type of people are over the top.

I have heard from one college basketball head coach that you often hear some pretty profound things out on the recruiting trail.
Recruits, their parents, and their coaches are often very shrewd and inquisitive, sometimes asking each coach what he thinks of other coaches and their programs.
They are also occasionally willing to share what they have heard, so Jim does have a way of knowing what other "competing" coaching staffs are saying about BU, and about JL. I haven't spoken to Jim Les as to what he's heard, but I can tell you the prior coach sometimes heard some very unpleasant and untrue things being said about him.
I have also seen and heard some very unfair and unpleasant things said about players and coaches, example--Patrick O'Bryant when the NCAA thing hit, people calling him crooked and cheater, and people saying the same thing about Jim Les and the staff.

It doesn't help when one of the insiders in the BU athletic staff quit and went to work at the sports info/athletic dept. of a competing school (perhaps you know who I mean).
That led to some unfair and negative comments being said, but I won't go into that any further.

You can believe or choose not to believe what you want, but it is a dog-eat-dog, competitive world out there in college basketball, and lots of slams, lies, and attacks are being spread.
Some of it became quite public and "over the top" 3 years ago when one kid showed up at a press conference and alledged charges of cruelty, racism, and slavery toward Bradley, or did you conveniently forget that incident which coincidentaly had no other independent evidence to support any of the attacks.

Hey, I have a challenge. Name for me a D-I coach who has had more unfounded attacks levelled at him than the head coach at BU. Remember, BU has never once been found during Jim Les' time to have been in violation of any NCAA rule even one time. You cannot count the thing with Will & Pat, as the institution was fully exonerated, and the only way the NCAA even found about it was that BU was honest and forthright and voluntarily turned the info in to the NCAA who was on campus checking out other unfounded allegations and attacks that had been levelled by outsiders. But the NCAA never found a thing on those attacks.
You can't count Quin, since his regime HAS had several violations, so the attacks there do have ground, as do some of the attacks about New Mexico and elsewhere. Jim Les has never tampered, never driven drunk, never violated recruiting rules (as Wainwright did), never offered money to a player, never been tied up with the kinds of crime and drug involvement we are seeing almost every day in the news.
Yet he does not enjoy the full support of his own fan base and local high school coaches who have a determined bias to continue unfounded attacks on him and his players.
It's pretty much there in black and white, but if you don't see it, then I guess you never will.
I started this post because I am going to try to let those kids and their coaches know that some, indeed many, maybe MOST BU fans are the strongest supporters you'll find anywhere.
For the size of the school, you'll find precious few who support their team the way good BU fans do, with 9,000 at every game, hundreds of young who line the court, and sellouts at almost all other non-game events. We just need to say some things to the kids and Jim to let them know the attacks they hear are coming from the minority.
We are very fortunate to have what we have, so I plan to let them know.

Bravesguy

02-21-2006, 10:53 AM

I also plan to send a note of support

patrick_o'brian

02-21-2006, 10:54 AM

I can't believe what I'm hearing. Boo hoo-ing about how bad Jim Les has been treated? We complain because we can. I know every single coach is put under the microscope. Look at Barry Hinson, Steve Merfield, Royce Waltman earlier this year. This type of thing happens when you don't win. Come on guys. Think. Now, I can't fathom personal attacks on Coach Les. He doesn't deserve that, nor have I ever heard any personal attacks towards him. There are still people calling for Barry Hinson's job. You can't feel sorry for Coach Les. If you don't win you get criticized. That's the name of the game. Now he has the monkey off his back and WE ARE WINNING. And as far as the players getting attacked. Do you really think a 7 footer with NBA skills like Pat cares about what a bunch of beer guzzling fans think. I doubt it. Jim Les is blessed with the program he was handed. He has done a good job ecruiting and finally it is starting to pay off. Hey, it could be worse. He could be Porter or Merfield. Right.

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 10:57 AM

Hey, I have a challenge. Name for me a D-I coach who has had more unfounded attacks levelled at him than the head coach at BU.

Jim Molinari, Barry Hinson, Mike Davis for starters. I don't pretend to be omnipitent and all-knowing, so I can't speak for the entire nation.

Remember, BU has never once been found during Jim Les' time to have been in violation of any NCAA rule even one time. You cannot count the thing with Will & Pat, as the institution was fully exonerated, and the only way the NCAA even found about it was that BU was honest and forthright and voluntarily turned the info in to the NCAA who was on campus checking out other unfounded allegations and attacks that had been levelled by outsiders. But the NCAA never found a thing on those attacks.

What do you mean "you can't count it"? It was an NCAA violation that happened under his watch. If it "didn't count", Pat and Will would have played. It's irrelevant whether it was intentional or not, it was an NCAA violation and we were punished. End of story.

Jim Les has never tampered, never driven drunk, never violated recruiting rules (as Wainwright did), never offered money to a player, never been tied up with the kinds of crime and drug involvement we are seeing almost every day in the news. Yet he does not enjoy the full support of his own fan base and local high school coaches who have a determined bias to continue unfounded attacks on him and his players.
It's pretty much there in black and white, but if you don't see it, then I guess you never will.

We're all glad he hasn't done any of these things. You're not supposed to. Since when do people get patted on the back for following the rules? He doesn't enjoy the full support of the fan base because we've been losers every year he's been here until this year. What is black and white is wins and losses, and so far under his tenure we're losers. I hope that changes, but if you're asking why there isn't this unanimous support for the coach, the record is why.

I started this post because I am going to try to let those kids and their coaches know that some, indeed many, maybe MOST BU fans are the strongest supporters you'll find anywhere. For the size of the school, you'll find precious few who support their team the way good BU fans do, with 9,000 at every game, hundreds of young who line the court, and sellouts at almost all other non-game events. We just need to say some things to the kids and Jim to let them know the attacks they hear are coming from the minority. We are very fortunate to have what we have, so I plan to let them know.

Jim Les is a good guy. We've established that. It doesn't make him a good basketball coach. When the wins start outnumbering the losses, then we'll talk. I hope they do soon, or else another good guy is going to be looking for a job. I am never in favor of personal attacks, and this isn't one. I am just not in favor of lauding someone who's done a below average job so far.

tornado

02-21-2006, 11:02 AM

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 11:08 AM

BU was not cited with a violation of any kind in the POB thing.
Could the University have caught it and prevented it?--possible
Was it their fault?-- nope

and Jim Les also has an e mail link, here is the page:
http://www.bubraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=19450&SPID=1510&DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=122838&Q_SEASON=2005

And I disagree on Barry and the others. They have their opponents, but I've not seen the silly attacks, lies, posters that get hung up in St. Louis, etc.
I am sure you know that at least FOUR different times someone has "ratted" on BU with allegations that caused the NCAA to inquire on campus, but all of those were false attacks and lies.
This stuff is not made public, but one of them was, the abuse allegations by DG. All were ultimately proven to be complately phoney.

Has Missouri State been subjected to that?

Pat and Will were suspended by the NCAA. It counts whether you like it or not.

There are false allegations made about schools all the time. Bruce Pearl's allegations about Illinois ended up being false, but there were other improprieties discovered which led to subsequent violations. It happens everywhere Tornado, not just at BU.

In regards to Hinson, you must not read the ValleyTalk board very much if you don't think personal attacks are made about him. Same thing with personal attacks about Mike Davis.

There is nothing more 'black and white' than the wins and losses. When the wins outnumber the losses, I think you'll find people to be very supportive. It's a performance business.

yahtzee

02-21-2006, 11:26 AM

There is nothing more 'black and white' than the wins and losses. When the wins outnumber the losses, I think you'll find people to be very supportive. It's a performance business.

I can't agree with you more BBrave the win/loss record of a program can make a huge difference in support for a program. When Dana took over Creighton I believe they had problems filling a very small arena. Now that their program is considered successful they are selling out a much larger facility. It is very easy to support a winning program.

egib52

02-21-2006, 11:40 AM

There is nothing more 'black and white' than the wins and losses. When the wins outnumber the losses, I think you'll find people to be very supportive. It's a performance business.

I whole-heartedly agree with this this statement. There are some positions in society (DI basketball coach, politics, entertainment, isu grad) that you accept or put yourself in that will lead to much criticism and scrutiny. Jim Les and these players knew going in that it they would constantly be in the public's eye. The realities are if you are bad everyone has an idea why, if you are good everyone loves you, if you are good for too long (Duke, North Carolina, Yankees) everyone is gunning for you and hates you. Welcome to DI basketball...welcome to the spotlight. Perform or go home. I believe that it is tough and stressful for them, but I would trade for that life any day. Focus on success and dont listen to the media and life will be a lot better.

BUBraves2006

02-21-2006, 11:52 AM

There is nothing more 'black and white' than the wins and losses. When the wins outnumber the losses, I think you'll find people to be very supportive. It's a performance business.

You're right about all this ... BUT ... (and I know from previous discussions we disagree here) would you rather have someone like Huggins at BU? I certainly would not. He is about the furthest thing from a class act there is in college coaching and I get tired of people calling for him (or guys like him) for BU when we were in a rut. You can use whatever justification you want on why we've gotten better but using your theory ... Jim Les is definitely improving and that is 'black and white' with the improved number of wins (not just overall, but on the road).

Living in Chicago and Peoria has shown me two different worlds. I honestly think that in a town like Peoria, it's more than wins and losses than in the big city. Everything about BU and this area is incredibly conservative and having a person who is former alum and a class act running the basketball program is just what Peoria needs. Can you imagine what the community reaction would be if Bradley's basketball coach (the coach of THE TEAM in town) got a DUI?

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 01:23 PM

There is nothing more 'black and white' than the wins and losses. When the wins outnumber the losses, I think you'll find people to be very supportive. It's a performance business.

You're right about all this ... BUT ... (and I know from previous discussions we disagree here) would you rather have someone like Huggins at BU? I certainly would not. He is about the furthest thing from a class act there is in college coaching and I get tired of people calling for him (or guys like him) for BU when we were in a rut. You can use whatever justification you want on why we've gotten better but using your theory ... Jim Les is definitely improving and that is 'black and white' with the improved number of wins (not just overall, but on the road).

Living in Chicago and Peoria has shown me two different worlds. I honestly think that in a town like Peoria, it's more than wins and losses than in the big city. Everything about BU and this area is incredibly conservative and having a person who is former alum and a class act running the basketball program is just what Peoria needs. Can you imagine what the community reaction would be if Bradley's basketball coach (the coach of THE TEAM in town) got a DUI?

I am not discrediting the importance of character in this position. Not at all. I am just saying that character alone is not enough for someone to retain a DI head coaching job. Heck, there's no one that exhibited more character or integrity than Jim Molinari, and the powers-that-be decided that he wasn't good enough. Sooner or later you have to win more than you lose, and BU hasn't done that yet under Jim Les' leadership. I sincerely hope they do.

tornado

02-21-2006, 01:56 PM

There are false allegations made about schools all the time. Bruce Pearl's allegations about Illinois ended up being false, but there were other improprieties discovered which led to subsequent violations. It happens everywhere Tornado, not just at BU.
.

if you know of examples then I'd like to hear them, perhaps cite an example of someone ratting on ISU that turned out to be false.

I suspect you can't because it has happened more to BU in the past 3 years than it had happened in all the Molinari era combined. This stuff is hard to prove because it happens behind the scenes, but here we have knowledge of at least 2 investigations into BU in the past couple years that were found to have no basis in fact. (The Granger allegation and the other one that the NCAA people were digging around on campus last fall that led to the Star Truck findings)
The fact that the only other example you cited was 15 years ago at U of I (Bruce Pearl) proves it is not happening everywhere. It is actually a fairly rare event, usually used as a scheme to bring down one of the big guys or a midmajor that is starting to win "too much" as was the case with Dick Versace.
But for it to happen at BU with the records we have had shows someone has a vendetta and wants to nail JL and BU for personal reasons.

By the way, I have even more evidence of individuals who are making extraordinary efforts to try to find and turn in something to nail BU, that is inappropriate to post publicly, so I won't say any more, but I have given the evidence to the appropriate authorities.

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 02:09 PM

There are false allegations made about schools all the time. Bruce Pearl's allegations about Illinois ended up being false, but there were other improprieties discovered which led to subsequent violations. It happens everywhere Tornado, not just at BU.
.

if you know of examples then I'd like to hear them, perhaps cite an example of someone ratting on ISU that turned out to be false.

I suspect you can't because it has happened more to BU in the past 3 years than it had happened in all the Molinari era combined.

And all the allegations were false.
I contend it is happening more at BU and I have presented the proof, you have not.

Are you in the SID's office of all 300+ DI schools in America? No, you're not, so you don't know what you're talking about there. You also aren't a part of the NCAA, so you don't know what you're talking about there either. You are speaking in absolutes, but have no proof of any. You asked for an example, and I provided an example of where allegations were made and turned up false. Provide evidence that shows that I am wrong about anything I said, or that you know what you're talking about. I suspect you can't. ;)

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 02:13 PM

It is actually a fairly rare event, usually used as a scheme to bring down one of the big guys or a midmajor that is starting to win "too much" as was the case with Dick Versace.

So why haven't Gonzaga, Creighton, and Southern Illinois been brought down yet? They've done more winning than Dick Versace did here.

tornado

02-21-2006, 02:34 PM

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 03:19 PM

answer is quite clear, and I will make it clearer.
I am not worried about boogie-men or monsters under the bed, but the simple fact is that there is an anti-BU bias.
I have seen it for 35 years.
Other schools always seem to have some grudge against BU moreso than anything at all the other way around.

Since it wasn't me who made it public about the NCAA investigators who WERE ON CAMPUS ALREADY CHECKING INTO ALLEGATIONS THAT PROVED FALSE
then here is an example of something, clearly documented that I can't recall ever hearing about this same thing happening anywhere else ever.
Usually NCAA investigators show up in a big scandal or when ample evidence has already been widely seen and known.
But we know from BU sources and from PJ Star sources that someone had ratted on BU with false claims.

I would like to see even a drop of evidence that, as you say, it is happening everywhere else.
I know for a fact it is not.

BU is being hit with unfair attacks and are being force to defend against false charges, I have noted 2 such examples, now you give me one within the last decade elsewhere.

Most FALSE accusations aren't made public, as they are just that - FALSE. However, I guess your database has access to all complaints and accusations made to every school in the NCAA. I find that amazing. That must be quite a database. :roll:

Here are three that took place recently, one very similar to BU, and one that involves BU.

Some former players accuse improprieties taking place in the Fairfield basketball program in 2003.

http://www.fairfieldmirror.com/media/paper148/news/2003/06/19/News/Former.Players.Allege.Ncaa.Violations-449707.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.fairfieldmirror.com

What a suprise, similar to BU, no major infractions were found. Just 'extra benefits'. Would this 'not count' against Fairfield? It sounds very similar to BU.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2004/12/16/fairfield_investigation_finds_no_major_ncaa_violat ions/

A former UL-Lafayette recruit accusses the program of improprieties in 2004, none of which have been proven -

http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27100

Even our beloved BU filed tampering charges against UW-Milwaukee for Joah Tucker, and nothing was proven.

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/ssections/2004/hoops/111804/HOO_B4MDHA5T.071.shtml

So yes, it does happen other places than just Bradley. As much as you may think it Tornado, you are not omnipitent and all-knowing. These are just a few examples of accusations being made against schools, and supports the notion that there are even more accusations made all the time that aren't made public. I have to look no further than our own BU to support this notion.

But back on topic :) - Support Bradley Basketball! Bleed Bradley red like I do! Pack the place on Saturday night and give our seniors the send off they deserve, and go down to St. Louis and cheer on our team. I certainly will be. Our guys can use all the support they can get. Hopefully our love will be finally rewarded with an NCAA bid!

tornado

02-21-2006, 04:12 PM

but you have effectively agreed with my point.
You said they happen everywhere, I said they are generally quite rare, and by doing a little digging you found a smattering of a few widely spaced, no two at the same school.

But my point was of several (I can cite the actual number but won't) in a very short span at JUST ONE PLACE, good old Bradley University.
In other words, you showed that lightning does indeed strike once in a while here and there, but I cited that lightning has struck 4 times in the same place in a short interval, so unusual that it has certain people looking for ways to stop information leaks, which is exactly why I won't say any more than I already have.

This is your quote, not mine:

...
There are false allegations made about schools all the time.
...
It happens everywhere Tornado, not just at BU.
...

I stand by my statement that BU has been the recipient of unfair, unfounded, and purposely malicious attacks and allegations, by certain people who have a bias against the university. I have seen and believe sufficient evidence, and I suspect the evidence would be convincing should you be willing to view it open mindedly.
But you are entitled to think it is going on everywhere, even when it's not.
Even tho BU knew of Jerry Wainwright's violation of NCAA, it was NOT BU who called the NCAA, it was someone else who read the story in the newspaper and saw DePaul scrambling for spin and in deflect mode who alerted the NCAA.
Most allegations to the NCAA have some basis, even when some are proven false, but BU has been the recipient of several such blatantly false attacks, that they've been cleared without investigation each time.

As I even said elsewhere, I have even more evidence but choose not to go openly with it.

BuBraves55

02-21-2006, 04:26 PM

Speaking of support, is anyone going to the BU/UNI game on Wednesay?

BradleyBrave

02-21-2006, 04:31 PM

but you have effectively agreed with my point.
You said they happen everywhere, I said they are generally quite rare, and by doing a little digging you found a smattering of a few widely spaced, no two at the same school.

But my point was of several (I can cite the actual number but won't) in a very short span at JUST ONE PLACE, good old Bradley University.
In other words, you showed that lightning does indeed strike once in a while here and there, but I cited that lightning has struck 4 times in the same place in a short interval, so unusual that it has certain people looking for ways to stop information leaks, which is exactly why I won't say any more than I already have.

This is your quote, not mine:

...
There are false allegations made about schools all the time.
...
It happens everywhere Tornado, not just at BU.
...

Nice try at the spin. I don't think too many will buy it though.

Answer this - How do you know that there weren't prior allegations made to each of those schools? The thing is, you don't. Don't pretend that you do. You don't know the administrations or insiders at Fairfield or UL-Lafayette, nor the people making the accusations. You are speaking under the assumption that NOTHING has ever happened at any of those other schools prior to these publicized incidents. You are also assuming that there aren't false accusations being made at other institutions that aren't being publicized yet, or never will be. Assuming these contentions to be true would be false, and claiming you know that they're true is a lie.

You asked for incidents in the last decade, in fact you asked for 2. I produced 3 almost instantly (I like to go above and beyond) that occured in the past 3 years, and I could have listed more had I wanted to go back further. It didn't take any 'digging'. It's not 'lightning striking occasionally', it's showing that these things happen very regularly (3 incidents in 3 years off the top of my head, probably more). But somehow I have proven YOUR point? Try again.

You tried to portray this whole situation as unique to BU, when in fact it is not at all. The facts speak for themselves.

Now back to the topic, after a spirited discussion. Support BU this Saturday as we close out our home season with a big win over recent nemesis Drake. Go BU! :)

McFly

02-21-2006, 06:00 PM

[quote="tornado"

You can believe or choose not to believe what you want, but it is a dog-eat-dog, competitive world out there in college basketball, and lots of slams, lies, and attacks are being spread.
Some of it became quite public and "over the top" 3 years ago when one kid showed up at a press conference and alledged charges of cruelty, racism, and slavery toward Bradley, or did you conveniently forget that incident which coincidentaly had no other independent evidence to support any of the attacks.

It's pretty much there in black and white, but if you don't see it, then I guess you never will.
BU fans are the strongest supporters you'll find anywhere.
For the size of the school, you'll find precious few who support their team the way good BU fans do,quote]

Tornado...Wow...first of all I never said I didnt believe anything you said. I said I hadnt seen that kind of behavior and was unaware..but I suppose anything is possible

Second of all you say its a dog eat dog world in the competitve world of college basketball with lots of slams lies and attacks (your 3 favorite words apparently) But then you tell us that BU is the only school where this happens????

Thirdly I would venture to guess that I have been to as many BU games as you have through the years. I have ponied up my share of money for the program through the years and I have and do support the prgram, so I dont need you to tell me what kind of fans BU has.. I have been one of them for almost 40 years

tornado

02-21-2006, 06:27 PM

Nope, BU is not the only school where it happens, but IS one of the few where an distinct aberration in the degree of it has been seen.
Of course it happens, as BB noted the infamous Bruce Pearl/Deon Thomas incident.
But I challenged him or anyone to find or name a school that had been hit with more than ONE such unfounded allegation over a short spam, and of course nobody has yet cited such an example, and never will.

EXCEPT--I can cite one.
It is Bradley University.
Feb. 2003, Officials at UNM and one ex-BU player made public statements alleging significant improprieties, even using inflammatory language, "abuse", "threats", "slavery".
As noted the NCAA found all such allegations to be without merit.
Then from 2004-2005 at least two separate allegations from competing schools led the NCAA to send personnell to BU campus to investigate, and all charges were found to be without merit. These fact have been made public and I suspect you saw them in the paper as well as I did.
While on campus last summer one of the NCAA investigators was VOLUNTARILY shown data by BU personnell that disclosed the payment irregularities by Star.
The NCAA investigator still cleared BU completely of all wrongdoing, but gave the info to the Student Compliance Committee of the NCAA which judged that penalties were in order for 2 players, but that wasn't what the original NCAA investigation was regarding.

You have to step back and ask---just why is BU getting these NCAA investigators coming on campus?
Doesn't that intrigue you?
The fact is they were on campus because someone else ratted, and BU was found fully innocent.
I know more but won't post it publicly, and as I said I even turned what I know from an independent source over to the proper people and it may have even been useful in exonerating BU, I don't know.

It is unfortunate that people have and hold grudges, but they dio, and Jim Les' comments last night that were the original topic in this thread confirms that it still prevails.
People can be really mean and do incredible things to try to hurt someone else, go figure.

Bottom line, not one allegation has stuck and BU is clean.
Jim Les has everything to be proud of and nothing to be ashamed of. I just think it's too bad that certain individuals find a need to be vindictive and malicious.

I won't discuss it further, as even the open mention of such things gets used against you. People assume the "where there's smoke there's fire" argument.
So end of discussion.

McFly

02-21-2006, 08:16 PM

Well you brought it up so I guess you can end it. However I dont dispute hardly anything you say with the exception that it is unique to BU.

SFP

02-21-2006, 08:53 PM

I believe it has more to do with the mid-majors getting slammmed for the smallest infractions and the BCS school getting away with actions that are questionable. Remeber when BU got slammed for DV getting a job for one of his players father at a car dealer. A year earlier I believe, Kansas hired Danny Mannings dad as a coach. You be the judge :!: There seems to be two different rules out there.

crpacey20

02-21-2006, 11:12 PM

we just need to end this discussion with either a> a tournament appearance, or b> introducing Steve Lavin as head coach

tornado

02-22-2006, 07:26 AM

I believe it has more to do with the mid-majors getting slammmed for the smallest infractions and the BCS school getting away with actions that are questionable. ....

I feel that you judge wisely, here, Pete.
Major schools with kids stealing computers and robbing other students, on campus alcohol, parties, and rapes, and drug possession, athletes driving Beamers and Porsches, and illegal contact of recruits (DePaul, New Mexico) seem repeatedly to have their woes swept under the carpet.
The very top schools (UConn, UofI, DePaul, etc.) with these violations recieve little or no punishment.

But if Bradley has a kid who gets a few more dollars for his summer job than would be the norm, or if some anonymous caller reports an impermissable contact over the summer, then the NCAA swarms in onto campus and digs through all the tiniest factoids until they find something to label a violation.
When Versace was coach (and you can still go online and read the NCAA findings) the very worst violation they could dig up even with virtually no evidence to confirm it was an "offer" of a job to a recruit's father and a free ride in a plane. That was it!!
And we were talking a very low level recruit, not a McDonalds All American.

This board has been a source for readers to see all the various improprieties that are going on, yet the only place the NCAA is digging for dirt (and read BradleyBraves' list of schools above) are Bradley, Fairfield, and UL-Lafayette!!
These are not the schools with the repeated violations.

Hey I suggest just one link to go back and read.
In this case, even though the guy admits to the violations, hundreds of them, and the NCAA is 100% convinced they need no more proof, they still have not handed down even the tiniest discipline years after the violations were committed and found!!
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=BKC-TRAMEL-01-18-06
http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9153113
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1638
(read what you want but mainly check out the last 3-4 posts on the first page of this discussion)

BU fan

02-22-2006, 08:32 AM

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:cKmoIAztNFcJ:www.startribune.com/dynamic/story.php%3Ftemplate%3Dprint_a%26story%3D5463574+% 22sam+bowie%22,kentucky,violations&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Just a reminder of how crooked Kentucky was, and yet the NCAA never did find enough to penalize them. One of the excuses they used was that they couldn't find some of the explayers to interview, including Sam Bowie and Kenny Walker (both of whom were playing in the NBA at the time). Sounds like they didn't look very hard.

thefish7

02-22-2006, 09:17 AM

I reserve the right to criticize performance of the team, players and coaching. That's what fans do. On the other hand, I completely abhor personal attacks on a coach or player based on the performance of the team. If you know them then you can feel free to have an opinion about their character... if, like me, you don't, then keep your criticisms aimed at the performance of the team.

user1

02-22-2006, 09:20 AM

Fair and well said, fishy

tornado

02-23-2006, 06:24 AM

At the risk of sounding self-serving, I just want to say...
I sent some e mail messages as I had described in the lead post of this thread. Go back and read what I first said then read the next couple paragraphs.

Last night after the game, I received a communication from the Director of Athletics, and whether you want to believe me or not, here is what he said.
He thanked me for the messages of encouragement on behalf of the players and the coaches, and said those words meant a lot and had a positive effect on encouraging the kids as they headed out on the road trip to Iowa.

I strongly suggest that any other interested fan do the same.
Just send a note or email. Send it to an individual player or two and it will seem more personal, or send it to the group.

I just want these kids and coaches to know how much their efforts and performances ARE appreciated.