Outstanding coaching in the face of multiple starters lost to injury

[tornado]

I know there's doubters...and one of them consistently is a writer for the PJStar...but I offer this challenge....

First...just consider this..

2005-2006 - Bradley wins 22 games and goes to Sweet Sixteen yet lost multiple starters. Jeremy Crouch missed 11 games with injury, Patrick O'Bryant missed 8 and Will Franklin missed 6 with NCAA ruling, and although not a starter, Sam Singh missed the entire season.

2006-2007 - Bradley wins 22 games -Patrick O'Bryant misses entire season as he leaves early for NBA, Crouch missed 8 games, Ruffin missed 3.

2007-2008 - Bradley still wins 21 games despite multiple key players missing games due to unexpected injuries...
Ruffin missed 9 but played 6 or 7 more with severe pain/sports hernia, while even Theron Wilson, Andrew Warren, and Sam Singh all miss games due to injury.

2008-2009 - Bradley still hits 21 wins despite the loss of Andrew Warren for the entire year, and the loss of a 2nd starter, Will Egolf after just four games.
TWO starters out and BU still won 21.

2009-2010 - an off year, but still finish in upper half of Valley despite, again being hurt severely by injuries to key players -
Sammy played injured all year, Dodie was lost for the season, and other starters missed games, Taylor Brown.

NOW -- after playing all season with two starters out (TB & Sammy) we are faced with advancing in the MVC tournament with yet a third starter going down.
I hope Jordan Prosser can play but he respresents the third starter lost to injury, and yet Bradley is playing well and the fans of Wichita & MIssouri State who are here admit they might not have an easy time with Bradley...


Here is my challenge........
find me just one example of a Valley team who lost so many key players and starters that has done as well as Bradley has despite those losses.

I'll give a couple examples I have seen people come up with but they fail....

2005-2006 Creighton -- they lost Nate Funk and people say look at how well they did. And yes they did go 20-10 -- but Bradley did better and Creighton didn't make the NCAA and floundered in the NIT!

Then some have used Indiana State last year and this year as examples...they lost Lathan & Kelly...and a few others...
BUT they still never lost as many starters to injury as Bradley has...
PLUS last year they went 17-15 and quickly got bounced in the post-season.
This year 17-13, not going to reach 20 wins, and still lost fewer starters in games than Bradley has lost -- the comparison isn't even close!

So no Valley team has lost not just two starters but two POY-caliber players who were starters and done any better than Bradley has done...

Coach Jim Les has done a remarkable job given the circumstances that are outside of his control. Let's give him the props he deserves.
I am not the only person saying this....several other player parents and insider fans I talked with yesterday all say the same thing - which is why I am prompted to write this thread!

 

[TylerDurden]

The answer is that there hasn't been a Valley team suffer those type of injuries.

I think everyone knows that injuries have played a part in the overall record.

However, I do think it's a bit misleading to cite total games won without also stating total games played. Winning 20 games isn't the feat it used to be when you can play nearly 40 games in some seasons.

I think the players like Jim and I do think he's had more bad luck than others with injury.

I also think that including players missing games for breaking NCAA rules and for off-court incidents is different than injuries.

Every team has guys who "play hurt," as well.

There is a legitimate point you're trying to make.

But, IMO, there is some extra stuff in there that could be removed or clarified to provide a compelling point.

And, in all honesty, you could have reached back to Phillip Gilbert for more injury bad luck.

 

[Majik45]

2005-2006 - Bradley wins 22 games and goes to Swqeet Sixteen yet lost multiple starters. Jeremy Crouch missed 11 games with injury, Patrick O'Bryant missed 8 and Will Franklin missed 6 with NCAA ruling, and although not a starter, Sam Singh missed the entire season.

Hate to be nit picky, but Jeremy Crouch never started a game in 05-06 and neither did Will Franklin. They were both players that came off the bench.

We have had terrible luck with injuries.

 

[Buesch N Chips]

Purdue seems to be doing ok without Robbie Hummel, but every situation is different. Hard to compare any two injury situations.

 

[tornado]

And, in all honesty, you could have reached back to Phillip Gilbert for more injury bad luck.

I percieve that as a fan, I am apparently different than those who write letters to the editor griping about losses and saying I will send back by season tickets if we don't change directions or win more games...

I am loyal, this is my team, and I support them 100%.
I know there are "different kinds of fans"...so be it...but I don't have to have wins and only wins to be happy...

Sure I want wins, but there's a lot of things I'd like to have that I understand I will just have to do without and can still be quite happy...

BU is a great team, we year-in and year-out graduate great individuals and we remain competitive almost every year....but even with the tremendous disadvantages of the players lost...we play hard and compete...

Maybe Duke or Kentucky (and someone uses Purdue) can lose starters and still be ranked, but no midmajor can.....Purdue has THREE other 4 & 5-Star starters for gosh sakes!

Did anyone notice BYU was cruising and they bombed after losing one starter -- not even one of their best 2 or 3 guys!!

Hey -- UNI lost a guy who was little more than a 6th man (O'Rear) and then lost
SIX of the next SEVEN games and are reeling!!!!


WE have lost plenty of STARTERS and KEY players.

 

[TheAsianSensation]

I always hate comparing situations to other teams, since every situation is different. I think the opinion on how well Les has done should be based on BU expectations only, not based on comparisons to other Valley teams and how they dealt with adversity.

That said, just to counter one point of yours, that 05-06 Creighton team with a healthy Funk gets an at-large bid over Bradley.

 

[tornado]

That said, just to counter one point of yours, that 05-06 Creighton team with a healthy Funk gets an at-large bid over Bradley.

Sure...and we heard that Jake Kelly would tear up the MVC..and he didn't do that even when he was healthy...
but even in saying that they would have been better with Funk, then you have thrown strong support to my main point...

NO MID-MAJOR and no Valley team in my memory....has lost anywhere near the player losses Bradley had has...
and done any better!!!!!

I would like to cite Indiana State in 2005-2006 -- they were off to a great start, 8-0 and had the #1 RPI in the nation...
they were the surprise team and headed towards what Drake did a couple years later....

then they lost their best player David Moss to injury, lost their NEXT 11 games straight, and finished in DEAD LAST PLACE

I can give example after example to prove my point -- but I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong --name a Valley team that lost two starters and finished at the top of the Valley --

 

[Braves4Life]

I think Les has done a remarkable job with this team the last month of the season (as he did during the last month or so of the Sweet 16 run). Kudos and props. However, most on here judge him on his entire body of work over 9 years -- mediocrity. I'm both happy and proud that Les brings in and graduates quality kids. In this regard Les is second to none as a coach and evaluator of quality young men.

However, an objective person must admit that he has been lacking as a game/practice coach over this 9 year period. During his reign as coach BU has lacked consistency, fundamentals, and he has made some very questionable decisions as a coach during games with his choice of players, substitution patterns, game management, and official (referees) management. He has also not been able to keep an assistant coaching staff intact and has been poor in delegating authority and responsibility to his assistants. Up to this point he will always be associated as having success when Chuck Buescher was on the bench and in the practices; he still is struggling to shed this stigma.

I like Les and believe that he has shown growth and improvement as a coach this year. I'm also willing (like many) to give him next season to prove he can build on the success of the last month. I hope Les is our coach next season! :!: I hope Les wins the MVC next season. I hope BU makes the NCAA Tournament next season. And I hope Les can finish out his career as Bradley's head coach. However, if next season mirrors what we've seen the past 9 season then I want Les gone and am willing to go through the short term (hopefully) pain of finding a new coach and rebuilding the program.

 

[Braves4Life]

I can give example after example to prove my point -- but I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong --name a Valley team that lost two starters and finished at the top of the Valley --

Name a program that has not won the MVC the last 9 years...... There aren't many! That's all we want here at Bradley! We're starving for some success and national attention here!

 

[Buesch N Chips]

name a Valley team that lost two starters and finished at the top of the Valley --

Has anyone said we should have finished at the top of the valley this year?

 

[LittleBrave]

Here's my assessment - many will probably differ:

2005-2006 - Good job by Coach Les in putting program back on map. They really turned in on the last 10 games or so before the NCAA tourney

2006-2007 - Great job by Coach Les with pretty much everyone healthy.

2007-2008 - Mediocre job by Coach Les, though good run in CBI. :|

2008-2009 - Good job by Coach Les dealing with AW injury and finishing 10-8 in conference.

2009-2010 - Underachieved plain and simple. Even with Dodie, we might not make the NIT in a year where most thought we could return to the NCAA tourney. Players didn't buy in, and we had the potential for so much more.

2010-'11 - Looking back from this point, mediocre job by Les. The first half of the Valley season was terrible - coaching was suspect and may have cost us a few games where you couldn't totally blame the lack of talent. BUT the last half, Les has done a mighty fine job and has BU playing consistently well for a longer period of time than any period in the last 3 seasons (that I can remember). :|

2011-'12 - Can't afford a repeat of the 2009-'10 season. A season with a healthy roster appears to give us high hopes, as our talent level appears to be the best since the NIT season...perhaps better. A good coaching job equates to a Top 3 league finish and winning at least 20 games prior to Arch Madness. (hopefully return to state)

 

[Buesch N Chips]

I think Les has done a remarkable job with this team the last month of the season (as he did during the last month or so of the Sweet 16 run). Kudos and props. However, most on here judge him on his entire body of work over 9 years -- mediocrity. I'm both happy and proud that Les brings in and graduates quality kids. In this regard Les is second to none as a coach and evaluator of quality young men.

However, an objective person must admit that he has been lacking as a game/practice coach over this 9 year period. During his reign as coach BU has lacked consistency, fundamentals, and he has made some very questionable decisions as a coach during games with his choice of players, substitution patterns, game management, and official (referees) management. He has also not been able to keep an assistant coaching staff intact and has been poor in delegating authority and responsibility to his assistants. Up to this point he will always be associated as having success when Chuck Buescher was on the bench and in the practices; he still is struggling to shed this stigma.

I like Les and believe that he has shown growth and improvement as a coach this year. I'm also willing (like many) to give him next season to prove he can build on the success of the last month. I hope Les is our coach next season! :!: I hope Les wins the MVC next season. I hope BU makes the NCAA Tournament next season. And I hope Les can finish out his career as Bradley's head coach. However, if next season mirrors what we've seen the past 9 season then I want Les gone and am willing to go through the short term (hopefully) pain of finding a new coach and rebuilding the program.

Good post. I think he deserves a year to get things right. Not sure I blame the assistant coaches on him though. Some move up, others are told to go. I don't have enough info to know if you are correct about the delegating stuff.

Not to hijack, but I think it is interesting that both Les and Bruce Weber endure the wrath of fans, but for totally different reasons. Les has a great rapport with his players, but has had to deal with injuries, while Weber has had virtually zero injuries, but almost constant internal strife. Both are grilled for game coaching, but every coach in America is. Every message board in America has a group that think they know better.

 

[TylerDurden]

Did anyone notice BYU was cruising and they bombed after losing one starter -- not even one of their best 2 or 3 guys!!

Hey -- UNI lost a guy who was little more than a 6th man (O'Rear) and then lost
SIX of the next SEVEN games and are reeling!!!!


BTW -- I knew the pickiness would start --

"Pickiness" starts when things are presented selectively or incorrectly to make a point.

I realize that you may not follow BYU, but Davies was absolutely one of their best players and was probably their second-best player behind Jimmer.

And O'Rear started every game this year before his injury and was far from "little more than a 6th man."


Again, BU has had it worse than every MVC school with injuries over the past 10 years, but exaggerations and inaccuracies don't need to be included to make that point or to inflate accomplishments in light of those injuries.

 

[LittleBrave]

I like Les and believe that he has shown growth and improvement as a coach this year. I'm also willing (like many) to give him next season to prove he can build on the success of the last month. I hope Les is our coach next season! :!: I hope Les wins the MVC next season. I hope BU makes the NCAA Tournament next season. And I hope Les can finish out his career as Bradley's head coach. However, if next season mirrors what we've seen the past 9 season then I want Les gone and am willing to go through the short term (hopefully) pain of finding a new coach and rebuilding the program.

That's exactly how I feel...must admit it's different than how I felt at the end of January.

 

[Beninator]

I think Les has done a remarkable job with this team the last month of the season (as he did during the last month or so of the Sweet 16 run). Kudos and props. However, most on here judge him on his entire body of work over 9 years -- mediocrity. I'm both happy and proud that Les brings in and graduates quality kids. In this regard Les is second to none as a coach and evaluator of quality young men.

However, an objective person must admit that he has been lacking as a game/practice coach over this 9 year period. During his reign as coach BU has lacked consistency, fundamentals, and he has made some very questionable decisions as a coach during games with his choice of players, substitution patterns, game management, and official (referees) management. He has also not been able to keep an assistant coaching staff intact and has been poor in delegating authority and responsibility to his assistants. Up to this point he will always be associated as having success when Chuck Buescher was on the bench and in the practices; he still is struggling to shed this stigma.

I like Les and believe that he has shown growth and improvement as a coach this year. I'm also willing (like many) to give him next season to prove he can build on the success of the last month. I hope Les is our coach next season! :!: I hope Les wins the MVC next season. I hope BU makes the NCAA Tournament next season. And I hope Les can finish out his career as Bradley's head coach. However, if next season mirrors what we've seen the past 9 season then I want Les gone and am willing to go through the short term (hopefully) pain of finding a new coach and rebuilding the program.

I agree with most of this post, especially the player choices and substitution patterns during games. I would also add player development of our non-guard players! I think that JL should be brought back next year, but in bringing JL back, he needs to do an in depth analysis of his coaching style. IE: No four guard offense!

 

[AZ BU Fan]

BU will decide if JL is da man next season or beyond. Based on their overall assessment of the program.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows about the wins, the tourneys, the graduation rates, the injuries, the injuries, the injuries, the injuries, the injuries, the injuries, and the injuries (heck, BU should change coaches if for no other reasoin than to try and break the injury curse)

Promoters/Doubters on this site won't matter. No matter how many times each side passionately presents its arguments.

Does anyone really think people on this Forum would like to see a new head coach out number the people on this Forum who think JL is great and should stay? Either in actual number or in number of posts?

BU has lived and died by the jump shooters and slashers ever since POB, MS, and ZA left. Some think another approach may yield better results than the incumbent has achieved.

Defense, intensity, buy in issues, free throws, rebounding, recruiting misses, game plan communication issues.....are what worry me about BU teams.

But this is a moot point as JL will be in great demand from other higher profile schools due to his record in the face of injuries! Wouldn't it be great for once to have to fight to keep a very successful coach at BU?

 

[Buesch N Chips]

(heck, BU should change coaches if for no other reasoin than to try and break the injury curse)

There are some people who actually believe this.

If BU was going to fire JL based on years of mediocrity, they should have done it last year. Given this year's situation, I don't think those who retained him for 8 years of what some call mediocrity would remove him after this season.

 

[tornado]

then, again, you solidify my point -- even if the kid BYU lost (11ppg/6rpg - about what Kenny Harris gives Evansville!) was their best player -- or even if O'Rear (6.9ppg/5.7rpg - and only 5/4 in Valley play) was UNI's best player...
then how can people see near complete tanking of BYU and UNI and say even tho Bradley lost TWO players who would have been possibly POY candidates, that it doesn't have major impact!!

 

[braveatheart]

I think Les has done a remarkable job with this team the last month of the season (as he did during the last month or so of the Sweet 16 run). Kudos and props. However, most on here judge him on his entire body of work over 9 years -- mediocrity. I'm both happy and proud that Les brings in and graduates quality kids. In this regard Les is second to none as a coach and evaluator of quality young men.

However, an objective person must admit that he has been lacking as a game/practice coach over this 9 year period. During his reign as coach BU has lacked consistency, fundamentals, and he has made some very questionable decisions as a coach during games with his choice of players, substitution patterns, game management, and official (referees) management. He has also not been able to keep an assistant coaching staff intact and has been poor in delegating authority and responsibility to his assistants. Up to this point he will always be associated as having success when Chuck Buescher was on the bench and in the practices; he still is struggling to shed this stigma.

I like Les and believe that he has shown growth and improvement as a coach this year. I'm also willing (like many) to give him next season to prove he can build on the success of the last month. I hope Les is our coach next season! :!: I hope Les wins the MVC next season. I hope BU makes the NCAA Tournament next season. And I hope Les can finish out his career as Bradley's head coach. However, if next season mirrors what we've seen the past 9 season then I want Les gone and am willing to go through the short term (hopefully) pain of finding a new coach and rebuilding the program.

Good post. I think this hits the nail on the head. I think Les has earned a shot at next year. But next year better be good or patience will wear thin. Plus the buy-out will be a lot less at that time.

 

[TheAsianSensation]

To me, the more I think about the evidence that tornado has presented, it does seem clear to me that Bradley has suffered more bad luck than most any team in the country - legitimately. I mean, go around and find as many preseason 1st and 2nd team all conference players from across the country, and find all those players who ended up out for the season very early on. I bet you couldn't find even 10 of them - and then on top of that, there were 2 in the MVC...belonging to the same team.

I think the main point of disagreement is about the coaching job Les has done in response. To have the worst luck when it comes to injury doesn't automatically translate into a good coaching job by Les. For example, this year, our play in the last 10 games is actually somewhat solid, but going on a prolonged losing streak that comprised more than 1/3 of our whole schedule is such a big failure that the last 10 games or so can't completely make up for it.

The point is, just because BU has the worst injury luck doesn't mean Les has done a good job in response. In truth, sometimes he's done good, sometimes he's done adequate, and some times he's failed.

So it's OK to use the injury excuse - but only if you feel the response to the injury was positive by the team.