D. It is ridiculously hot in our arena.
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Top 10 returning guards to the Valley next season
- Thread starter electricmayhem
- Start date
D. It is ridiculously hot in our arena.
LittleBrave
Active member
I think Odum will eventually be a 1st team Valley player. Great basketball IQ.
I consider him a distant second to McDermott for FOY last season.
tornado
New member
OK -- someone tell me what I am missing....
Here are Jake Odum's stats last year...
9.3 ppg, 3.9 apg, 73% on FT
Here are Sam Maniscalco's stats last year on two bad legs...
9.7 ppg, 4.3 apg, 82.4% on FT
Here are Sammy stats for his last year with only moderate pain, 2009-2010
13.1 ppg, 3.4 apg, 85% on FT
add in that Jake shoots 32% on 3-pointers to Sammy's 35% career avg,
and Sam is just as tough, just as smart, just as good of a leader and then some...
and even Sammy's freshman stats match Jake's....
then someone tell me why Jake Odum gets people drooling (and maybe he deserves every accolade) - and the very same people still haven't figured out that Sam Maniscalco was the MORE LIKELY 2011-2012 MVC POY candidate....
yet people still kick Sammy in the rear on his way out......hypocrites..
Here are Jake Odum's stats last year...
9.3 ppg, 3.9 apg, 73% on FT
Here are Sam Maniscalco's stats last year on two bad legs...
9.7 ppg, 4.3 apg, 82.4% on FT
Here are Sammy stats for his last year with only moderate pain, 2009-2010
13.1 ppg, 3.4 apg, 85% on FT
add in that Jake shoots 32% on 3-pointers to Sammy's 35% career avg,
and Sam is just as tough, just as smart, just as good of a leader and then some...
and even Sammy's freshman stats match Jake's....
then someone tell me why Jake Odum gets people drooling (and maybe he deserves every accolade) - and the very same people still haven't figured out that Sam Maniscalco was the MORE LIKELY 2011-2012 MVC POY candidate....
yet people still kick Sammy in the rear on his way out......hypocrites..
Serbiansniper34
New member
The stat sheet doesn't show everything. Odum is a much better defender than maniscalco was. He led the MVC in steals and was 2nd in assists as a freshman, and you can just tell that ISU plays A LOT better when he is on the floor.
SycamoreFanatic
New member
At the risk of irritating a couple of fans on your message board I have one more comment. Jake Odum makes those playing with him better. Bird did the same in his day.
mrcoachdude
New member
I am thinking Odum is getting so much attention because he played great during the tourney...he finished strong...no time to check his tourney stats, but he was good...
tornado
New member
to each his own - but Indiana State had the NCAA bid fall into their lap -- they were NOT an NCAA team and had it gifted to them by the Shox & Bears - and showed it when they got blown out by a Syracuse team that like most Big East teams was weak in the NCAA and lost their next game to the Big East's 10th place team and lost 2 of their last 3 as well as 8 of their last 17...
Odum has time to prove if he is in the mold of Larry Bird ..but I haven't seen it yet...
BTW -- when they needed him most -- Odum was 1-3 that game, and he didn't make "those around him" very much better...as no starter scored more than 7 pts, and InSU got beaten badly in every aspect of the game.
In the end and when it's all said and done -- Sammy was part of more than 60 wins in his 3 years for BU -- and more than 1200 pts with a season to go --
All I am saying is that Bradley had a player every bit as good and better and some fans never appreciated him...
Hey -- fans even dissed on AW and DRuff.....they're never happy.
2011 - Jake Odum - vs. Missouri State, WSU - 24 pts, 5 asst, 12-16 on FT's
2010 - Sam Maniscalco - vs. Creighton, UNI - 41 pts, 4 asst, 22-23 on FT's
I rest my case
Odum has time to prove if he is in the mold of Larry Bird ..but I haven't seen it yet...
BTW -- when they needed him most -- Odum was 1-3 that game, and he didn't make "those around him" very much better...as no starter scored more than 7 pts, and InSU got beaten badly in every aspect of the game.
In the end and when it's all said and done -- Sammy was part of more than 60 wins in his 3 years for BU -- and more than 1200 pts with a season to go --
All I am saying is that Bradley had a player every bit as good and better and some fans never appreciated him...
Hey -- fans even dissed on AW and DRuff.....they're never happy.
BTW -- coachdude...here are the stats for the last two MVC Tourney games played by each guy..
2011 - Jake Odum - vs. Missouri State, WSU - 24 pts, 5 asst, 12-16 on FT's
2010 - Sam Maniscalco - vs. Creighton, UNI - 41 pts, 4 asst, 22-23 on FT's
I rest my case
electricmayhem
New member
Ok, tornado... I'll bite.
First, SM is gone. Let's get over it. I love the kid, but he's gone.
If you want to go by stats, let's look at the freshman year of both players:
SM - 27.2 min, 41.7%fg, 36.7%3pt, 72.6%ft, 7.7ppg, 3.0apg, 1.7rpg, 0.8spg, 1.4topg
JO - 29.8min, 47.7%fg, 32.1%3pt, 73.0%ft, 9.3ppg, 4.1apg, 3.9rpg, 1.8spg, 2.2topg, All-MVC Defensive Team
You can pick whatever stats you want to make our guy look better. Let's compare them after Jake has played three full seasons. As freshmen, Odum was hands down the better player. Will he turn out to be better than SM? Who knows... but let's end this silly debate about who is a better guard. SM doesn't play in the Valley any more - the article was about the returning guards to the Valley next season, and SM isn't one of them.
The answer to your next question is that I would have likely ranked him behind Odum, Antoine Young, Colt Ryan and Anthony James. There's your next argument...
First, SM is gone. Let's get over it. I love the kid, but he's gone.
If you want to go by stats, let's look at the freshman year of both players:
SM - 27.2 min, 41.7%fg, 36.7%3pt, 72.6%ft, 7.7ppg, 3.0apg, 1.7rpg, 0.8spg, 1.4topg
JO - 29.8min, 47.7%fg, 32.1%3pt, 73.0%ft, 9.3ppg, 4.1apg, 3.9rpg, 1.8spg, 2.2topg, All-MVC Defensive Team
You can pick whatever stats you want to make our guy look better. Let's compare them after Jake has played three full seasons. As freshmen, Odum was hands down the better player. Will he turn out to be better than SM? Who knows... but let's end this silly debate about who is a better guard. SM doesn't play in the Valley any more - the article was about the returning guards to the Valley next season, and SM isn't one of them.
The answer to your next question is that I would have likely ranked him behind Odum, Antoine Young, Colt Ryan and Anthony James. There's your next argument...
tornado
New member
Jake has already used two years of scholarship - he is a redshirt freshman and those stats are not that much different...
and facts are facts -- Sam would have been a POY candidate were he not gone...
anyway -- Sam's njumbers for every year since his freshman year are better
Odum is a good freshman but I am not going to give him the Player of the Year Award yet
and facts are facts -- Sam would have been a POY candidate were he not gone...
anyway -- Sam's njumbers for every year since his freshman year are better
Odum is a good freshman but I am not going to give him the Player of the Year Award yet
LittleBrave
Active member
Not sure how Sammy got involved in this, T.
This is a bad comparison IMO. You're comparing a freshman to a junior.
You also are comparing one game for a guy who played a little below average (Odum) in the NCAA tourney game to 100+ games (3 years) for Sammy.
I too think that Odum is overrated (compared to Syc fans), but do think Odum has the potential to be 1st-team eventually. If you think differently, I'd like to know who else to put on the 1st team in the Valley in 2 or 3 years. I thought the same about DSE after his freshman year, but I would venture to say that Odum had a slightly better season than DSE as freshmen. I don't think anyone except ISU (Blue) fans is goo-goo-ga-ga over Odum...at least not BU fans on this board.
LittleBrave
Active member
Nobody is that I've seen - except for Sycamore fans.
LittleBrave
Active member
Very true, T.
We dissed on a lot of our guys last season during our 0-11 Valley start, and it seemed that some couldn't give a lick if none of our guys came back this next season due to a possible fall-out.
I am thrilled, along with others, that DSE, JE, WL, JP, and others are still around, and I'm sure that other Valley teams wish they could have these guys.
I'm not sure how SM got into the conversation either.
But since he was brought up I'm going to say he was a pretty good player for BU and I enjoyed his style of play but he will not go down as a BU great for most of us die hard fans. He made his choice plain and simple and that is what he'll have to live with. I have nothing against the guy and it seems he's a type of person I'd want as a friend. Basketball wise though he's no longer a Brave and went a direction I can understand but not one I have to like. I also do not know all of the story so I'll respect his decision but I have to ask, do we have to keep mentioning him?
But since he was brought up I'm going to say he was a pretty good player for BU and I enjoyed his style of play but he will not go down as a BU great for most of us die hard fans. He made his choice plain and simple and that is what he'll have to live with. I have nothing against the guy and it seems he's a type of person I'd want as a friend. Basketball wise though he's no longer a Brave and went a direction I can understand but not one I have to like. I also do not know all of the story so I'll respect his decision but I have to ask, do we have to keep mentioning him?
LittleBrave
Active member
I'm not sure how SM got into the conversation either.
Searching for the "Like" button!
Sammy still holds a place in many BU fans' hearts - just gotta' accept that his name will keep coming up until this time next year. And he is still a big part of Bradley basketball - because he gave so much to the program, it's hard to let go I think. Remember that he was probably the fan favorite ("The Man") the last couple years at BU before he was disabled.
I hope all of us can turn our bitterness (if we have it) into gratitude for his time at BU and move into the mindset of hoping he finds success at his next school. I don't like his decision either, but it's not my life, and if it were, I might have chosen the same.
Just a thought - IF Sammy had decided to return to BU, perhaps we would have a better shot at getting to the Big Dance than U of I. Am I completely off my rocker here??? Sammy WOULD have made a difference, which explains why some are upset at his decision - although I am optimistic about our team in 2011-'12 even without him.
Future Walk-On
New member
:roll: Completely off your rocker. No way.
I have to agree. SM at point would make a ton of difference for this team. EXPERIENCE, leadership, 3 point shooting and keeping DSE on the wings would have made this team so much better. I hope someone steps up to the task at hand.