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"If Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing"

M

Murph

New member
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] According to the sources, after Greenspan informed five selected players -- namely D.J. White, Eric Gordon, Kyle Taber, Lance Stemler and Adam Ahlfeld -- of his decision to replace Sampson he called a meeting with the entire team in an attempt to "prepare" them for Friday's official announcement that Sampson would either be suspended or terminated in time for the Hoosiers' weekend game at Northwestern. But before Greenspan finished his speech, the sources said an unidentified player stood up and insisted "if Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing" and that Greenspan responded with what he thought was a rhetorical question. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] "Greenspan asked if he should just cancel the whole season," one source said. "And the player told him 'We don't care what you do. But if Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing.' And then they just walked out."

[/FONT]http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10659277
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It sounds like the inmates are running the prison; I would tell them that if that is what they wish to do then so be it as they are only hurting themselves ; if the NCAA had penalized them like they should have then none of this would have mattered.
 
Indiana can't stand for this if it's true. They need to be firm and make sure that Kelvin pays the price for his wrongdoing, whatever that price is. I bet the players will back down as soon as it is time to play Northwestern anyways. They have come out and said that the NCAA shouldn't take away their season even if their coach has done wrong; they realize they have a chance for a special season and they won't give that up.

Also, it was just reported on ESPN Radio's Mike and Mike In The Morning Show that IU fired Sampson.
 
There's an easy solution to this - Those players are at IU on a scholarship based on them performing their duties as a DI basketball player. If they don't, the school can take away their scholarship and kick them out of school for insubordination. It's as simple as that. If they're going to stand by this cheater, then they're part of the problem not the solution. If they care about the university they'll play. Insisting on Sampson remaining coach at the sacrifice of future Hoosier teams is nothing short of selfish.
 
Yeah on Mike and Mike this morning Jay Bilas said that it's pretty much been a foregone conclusion that he was toast since last Friday. I also kind of agree with Bilas in that Indiana should allow Sampson the right of due process. This isn't about players getting paid or ridiculous gifts being given...he made too many phone calls. For this to be portrayed as the worst scandal in college basketball is a little much. I love both the IU program and of course Bradley but to be honest the treatment Pat and Will were given before the '06 season was probably worse than this.

In talking to one of the players I know that they love Coach Sampson but they also know what they have the opportunity to accomplish this season. D.J., Gordan, and Lance have talked about this being their last shot at a run in the tournament and, while a nice guesture to their coach, I seriously doubt they would put that in jeapordy.
 
The Indianapolis Star is reporting that the meeting last night was not about Sampson and the allegations, but about the season moving forward (sounds like that's the only thing they would be talking about with this season though). Former Bradley player Lance Stemler's dad, Brian is quoted in the story.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.d...=hPjPKTWRNmZWMWxX+oVs9M0NcC0/TX2cX57vh/ptBwE=

Brian basically says that Lance told him after the meeting that it wasn't about Sampson.
 
While I highly doubt Indiana would force the issue, the players have a contract with the university. In leiu of tuition and room and board they play basketball for IU not the coach. Technically Indiana could send them a bill if the players do not live up to their end of the contract.
 
Murph said:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] According to the sources, after Greenspan informed five selected players -- namely D.J. White, Eric Gordon, Kyle Taber, Lance Stemler and Adam Ahlfeld -- of his decision to replace Sampson he called a meeting with the entire team in an attempt to "prepare" them for Friday's official announcement that Sampson would either be suspended or terminated in time for the Hoosiers' weekend game at Northwestern. But before Greenspan finished his speech, the sources said an unidentified player stood up and insisted "if Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing" and that Greenspan responded with what he thought was a rhetorical question. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] "Greenspan asked if he should just cancel the whole season," one source said. "And the player told him 'We don't care what you do. But if Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing.' And then they just walked out."

[/FONT]http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10659277
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Even better. Don't play! I'd love to see Indiana not make it to the tournament and forfeit to Northwestern!
 
Once again.....the players will play. This is a nice show put on for their coach who is being sacraficed to the NCAA.
 
J Money, it's not about phone calls, it's about ethics. He made illegal phone calls and then lied about it, that's a serious ethical problem... as it was when he was caught cheating at Oklahoma. It's no stretch for me to expect that someone who has such an ethical problem to be cheating in other ways harder to prove or discover. These rules all exist for a reason-- Sampson knowingly cheated and the lied about doing it, and he deserves no sympathy.
 
thefish7 said:
J Money, it's not about phone calls, it's about ethics. He made illegal phone calls and then lied about it, that's a serious ethical problem... as it was when he was caught cheating at Oklahoma. It's no stretch for me to expect that someone who has such an ethical problem to be cheating in other ways harder to prove or discover. These rules all exist for a reason-- Sampson knowingly cheated and the lied about doing it, and he deserves no sympathy.
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I am a big IU basketball fan and trust me, I think he should be fired. But I also believe the NCAA has rules and procedures for investigations just like they have recruiting rules to be followed. Why is it that IU is not giving Sampson the right of due process? If he broke the rules (which I have no doubt he did) then he should be fired but IU is jumping the gun and trying to sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible instead of going through the NCAA's processes.

As far as Sampson cheating in other ways there is no evidence or rumors to that effect so that's just unfounded speculation. I will reiterate that fact that if he cheated he should be fired but it isn't right for IU to make him and most of the coaching staff a sacrifice so they don't have any further sanctions handed down to them. Let it run its course and if he's wrong...fire him.
 
J Money said:
I also kind of agree with Bilas in that Indiana should allow Sampson the right of due process. This isn't about players getting paid or ridiculous gifts being given...he made too many phone calls. For this to be portrayed as the worst scandal in college basketball is a little much.
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I've gotta TOTALLY (and respectfully) disagree with ya JMoney. Sampson violated probation! I don't care how minor it is he knew the rules and what the punishment would be to violate them and he screwed up! This is no different than an NFL player who's on probation for a failed drug test and then is found with a slight trace of a minor drug in his system and gets suspended. Our own Ray Brown, may he rest in peace ;) , knew the rules while on probation and screwed up and paid the price. Any criminal (and that is what Sampson was in the eyes of the NCAA and IU) who is on probation is put back in jail for violating their probation.

Sampson is getting exactly what he deserves!
 
I know this may be unpopular with some, but it is a novel idea...

NO PLAY...then no scholarship, no education, no credits, no degree, no free housing in the dorms, no free meals, and there's the door.

But then, isn't this what they have gotten themselves into?
Thay have allowed Sampson and his cheating ways to recruit players who are loyal only to Sampson, although I agree although this happens at all schools,
whoever the incoming coach may be, he would probably welcome these guys leaving and opening up some scholarships he can use to build the program from the ground up with integrity.



J Money said:
IU is jumping the gun and trying to sweep this under the rug ........
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What??? This Bilas arguement just doesn't hold water....these charges have been proven virtually beyond doubt (the only remaining doubters are Sampson-worshippers), Sampson isn't denying them (he's calling them mistakes and uninformed judgement) and he's even lying to cover them up or justifying the cheating because he thinks every other coach does it.
........every single investigation, both at Oklahoma and at IU has come up with all the same numerous, even hundreds of NCAA violations.
Are you saying these are all still just unfounded allegations?
There are probably no NCAA charges and violations that are so well confirmed to everyone's satisfaction as these are....and yet you
seem unconvinced....what more do you need to be convinced Sampson cheats, breaks rules guiltlessly and prolifically, and has no remorse and will continue to break the same rules over and over even though they have tried to penalize him and put him on probation?

The guy ...
--A, should have never been hired since he was a known rule-breaker
--B, once hired, should have been fired last summer when the new findings of hundreds of more violations of the same rules he was on probation for breaking were broken again.
--C, even if they wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, then what prevented IU from canning him once the independent firm of Ice Miller was hired to review all the findings, and not only confirmed he had broken the rules hundreds of times again, but that he was NOT cooperating with the investigators?
--D, now that the NCAA has been FORCED to act, why are they delaying yet again, and they still haven't canned the guy. Now they say they want to protect themselves from a "Jim O'Brien/Ohio State-like lawsuit", so it is obviously that now it's come down to simply thinking of themselves and trying to cover their own act.
--E, now KS has recruited the players into trying an "organized labor-like tactic" and boycott in order to bully Indiana into keeping Sampson despite the cheating. I consider this to place the players into the same boat as Sampson and if they support him then they may not be cheaters themselves, but they are party to the cheating in their support for Sampson.
 
I hear ya, though I think the fact that Indiana believes they were lied to when they asked him if he'd cheated, means they know enough to make the move. And it's not like there's any doubt he cheated... the "due process" for the NCAA is the part about how are we going to officially penalize Indiana and Sampson... doesn't have much to do with Indiana trying to correct their mistake of hiring a dirty coach. I actually think the AD needs to go down, Indiana has a pretty sterling reputation for running a clean program thanks to Bobby Knight, and he hired a guy known for his cheating and irregular practices.

I also think the NCAA should directly penalize Indiana... I know it "hurts the kids," but this is a competitive business and Indiana is as guilty of the cheating as their employee, and so it's only fair that cheating in recruiting is dealt with harshly to keep other programs from doing it.
 
J Money said:
I will reiterate that fact that if he cheated he should be fired but it isn't right for IU to make him and most of the coaching staff a sacrifice so they don't have any further sanctions handed down to them. Let it run its course and if he's wrong...fire him.
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This is exactly how the American legal system works JMoney. If IU had the evidence that he cheated, and/or the NCAA either came to them with this evidence or confirmed it, then how is this any different than a plea bargain.

I'm willing to guess the NCAA either said "here's the evidence IU, what are you going to do about it?", or IU went to the NCAA and said "we're prepared to impose our own sanctions for a more lenient NCAA sentence".

If this is how things are going down (and it sure seems that way to me), then I applaud IU for trying to save their reputation, program and @ss.
 
The difference between this and a failed drug test is that a failed drug test is immediately evident and the rules call for immediate suspension. A case like this sets up a hearing in an NCAA court 90 days after it is discovered. I'm just saying that processes like this are set up for a reason and why not let Sampson come before the committee and tell his side of the story (he still denies knowledge). I don't think he's right but give the guy his due process. Suspend him for the remainer of the season and then fire him if need be.

P.S. The basketball program has always had integrity at IU....Sampson is the exception not the rule. This is the first time IU has been investigated in any sport by the NCAA since the '60's.
 
Murph said:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] "Greenspan asked if he should just cancel the whole season," one source said. "And the player told him 'We don't care what you do. But if Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing.' And then they just walked out."

[/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/I]http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10659277
Click to expand...


The players have no dog in this hunt. The only players with any degree of leverage are the seniors..............and if they're close to graduating then they also have no leverage.
 
IU officials are calling bull on this story. That doesn't mean anything of course, but for the record...

"No decision was made until this morning, I cannot stress that enough," the official said in reference to various reports Thursday that claimed a decision to fire Sampson already had been made. "All those reports about it being made yesterday and of the players being told and of the team threatening not to play were not true. It's pure science fiction.

Story from ESPN
 
I guess the main issue I have with this is that it is being blown way out of proportion. It is completely wrong that he made those phone calls and I have no doubt he is guilty. Everyone is looking at this like this team somehow has an unfair advantage now. Look at the list of players the illegal phone calls were made too....all are playing for other schools now. Lets talk about Calipari and all the legal troubles on that team with no suspensions....this just isn't as mortally wrong as some other issues that are down-played. IU should fire him but the whole one-week thing was a dog and pony show...they had already decided to fire him last Friday before McRobbie's press conference.
 
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