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Sweet Sixteen Window of Opportunity Closing?

B

BU ICEMAN

New member
This question originally came up in another thread ( http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=7932 ), but I figured it deserved it's own thread. In the interest of giving credit where it's due, mrcoachdude and BradleyBrave helped spawn this thread. (Spawn this thread? That sounds kinda weird, doesn't it?)

Now, first off, we have to define "success" as it relates to the program. I think "success," generally speaking, would mean a season that in some fashion (MVC tourney champs, reg. season champs, at-large bid) that landed us a bid for the NCAA tourney. As far as this season, some have argued that this season has been a "success" when you factor in the health issues (and I guess the "other" issues) because we weren't at full strength for a significant amount of time and still held serve, so to speak. I don't think that's a wrong train of thought, but I think it only applies to us, the Bradley fans, not all college basketball fans, if only for the fact we know more about the program and it's troubles this year and what the team accomplished in spite of them.

OK, with that out of the way, using the first definition, which I think a majority of us are comfortable with, we haven't had a "successful" season since the S16 run. Not saying that we didn't have good seasons, but we haven't built on the S16 run, to keep the window from closing, or even better, opening it up even further. Granted, it's only been 2 years, which seems like a short time, but I think it's a lot farther (or further?) away in the minds of many "outsiders" to the BU program/MVC, i.e. selection committee members, recruits, casual/semi-casual fans, etc.

I certainly don't think we've squandered it yet by any means, but I think that we've got 2 years to make something happen to revive the buzz.
 
I think the window closed for a year or two, honestly.

This was the year with Ruffin and Crouch as seniors. This was the year we were a consensus preseason #2 in a league that is ALWAYS multibid. We often were the only "mid major" projected as an at-large berth in preseason (including Lunardi).

You don't get this situation/media praise/etc. preseason often. This simply WAS THE YEAR to do something. It's so maddening we can't even get to the NIT in a season where the expectations was so high.

For now, let's just keep the postseason streak going next year and see what we have for 09-10 and 10-11. Maniscalco is going to be a stud before it's all over. Let's get some solid 4-year recruits and build on that.
 
The only thing you can squander is your recruiting! Going to the S16 does not guarantee anything for the incoming class but the year after. I'd say AT, SM, WE, TW and our new facilities were products of that run. You be the judge!

Talk about blowing an opportunity! Gary Williams won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP in 02 and has not made it back to the S16. That to me is really blowing it! It is all relative.
 
TheAsianSensation said:
This was the year with Ruffin and Crouch as seniors. This was the year we were a consensus preseason #2 in a league that is ALWAYS multibid. We often were the only "mid major" projected as an at-large berth in preseason (including Lunardi).

You don't get this situation/media praise/etc. preseason often. This simply WAS THE YEAR to do something. It's so maddening we can't even get to the NIT in a season where the expectations was so high.

For now, let's just keep the postseason streak going next year and see what we have for 09-10 and 10-11. Maniscalco is going to be a stud before it's all over. Let's get some solid 4-year recruits and build on that.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. This was the year to do something. I felt like it would come, but it never did. In terms of outside of the MVC and Bradley. I'd say we have one more year (08-09) to do something and it can be considered that the S16 helped. Inside Bradley and anyone who knows Bradley basketball well I'd actually say that the S16 run was a huge success for our program. It's hard to make the case that we are a top 64 team but I truly believe we were last year and we could've been this year. Last year JC got hurt and if he hadn't who knows maybe we could've gotten 3 more wins and that would've put us over the top, and do I even need to say anything about this season? Basically I think Bradley has benefited but outside of Bradley I'm thinking that people just don't care about it too much anymore, especially if we don't do anything next season. Which, sadly, I don't see much coming out of next year unless 2 or 3 major things happen to improve the team.
 
SanFranciscoPete said:
The only thing you can squander is your recruiting! Going to the S16 does not guarantee anything for the incoming class but the year after. I'd say AT, SM, WE, TW and our new facilities were products of that run. You be the judge!
Click to expand...

good call SFP. TW alone is a good enough example of how we didn't squander away our S16 run.

I think we need to look at the team we had during the sweet 16 run and realize that that was a COMPLETELY different team. To say the least! It's like comparing apples and oranges (this years team and last years team).

2 years ago we were injury free...and we were MUUUUCH more well rounded.
this year we're injury plagued and (until tonight) had little to no big man play.

The recruits from that year and the development of them is key next year. This season was OK...not great...not a sucess. Next year can be great, can be a sucess, but also can be terrible. we need to develop our recruits from this year and hopefully bring in some good recruits from it.

great game tonight though...collins!! what a BEAST!!!
 
SanFranciscoPete said:
The only thing you can squander is your recruiting! Going to the S16 does not guarantee anything for the incoming class but the year after. I'd say AT, SM, WE, TW and our new facilities were products of that run. You be the judge!

Talk about blowing an opportunity! Gary Williams won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP in 02 and has not made it back to the S16. That to me is really blowing it! It is all relative.
Click to expand...

With all due respect to our Illini bretheren, take a look down I-74 - they made a national championship run & what do they have to show for it now? I think BU gathered much more from their S16 class mentioned above then UI did.
 
Guys, the Sweet 16 year has paid dividends, and will continue for several more years. Take time to talk to any of our coaches about it. Prior to 2006, Bradley was simply not a known entity outside of Illinois, and even among Chicago area kids, many never heard of Bradley. It's hard for us fans to comprehend, but it's pretty tough to even get in the door of a good recruit when they have never heard of Bradley.
Now at least most have heard of Bradley. It opens doors, and it is still paying off. The coaches have capitalized on it, and will continue to do so. The caliber of kids Bradley is recruiting has steadily increased.
 
SanFranciscoPete said:
The only thing you can squander is your recruiting! Going to the S16 does not guarantee anything for the incoming class but the year after. I'd say AT, SM, WE, TW and our new facilities were products of that run. You be the judge!
Click to expand...

Exactly! The massive improvements that are being made campus-wide and the guys we've gotten like Sam, AT, and Theron are all products of the Sweet 16 run. Also, I know we didn't get Shumpert for example but do you really think that we would have been in on him as late as we were without a Sweet 16 run? The postseason run two years ago is opening up doors for this program that were previously closed. Just because we haven't made it back to the NCAA Tourney since doesn't mean that the window is closing. Granted, it's sustained success that will give this program even more oppurtunities so it's time to get back to the tourney next season!
 
Da Coach said:
Guys, the Sweet 16 year has paid dividends, and will continue for several more years. Take time to talk to any of our coaches about it. Prior to 2006, Bradley was simply not a known entity outside of Illinois, and even among Chicago area kids, many never heard of Bradley. It's hard for us fans to comprehend, but it's pretty tough to even get in the door of a good recruit when they have never heard of Bradley.
Now at least most have heard of Bradley. It opens doors, and it is still paying off. The coaches have capitalized on it, and will continue to do so. The caliber of kids Bradley is recruiting has steadily increased.
Click to expand...

Bradley must have had some noterity or else Mo must have been the best recruiter ever. He had no facilites and no promise of new ones and landed amoung others Deon Jackson, AP, Bayo, Phil Gilbert and Danny Granger.
 
Lakeview Brave said:
Bradley must have had some noterity or else Mo must have been the best recruiter ever. He had no facilites and no promise of new ones and landed amoung others Deon Jackson, AP, Bayo, Phil Gilbert and Danny Granger.
Click to expand...

Jim Les landed Marcellus Sommerville, POB, JC, Dan Ruffin, Lawrence Wright, Zach Andrews, and Andrew Warren without even a winning season under his belt (somewhat similar to Mo landing the players above), and he had no promise of facilities either. As I said in the original thread, saying that the window is closed and that we 'blew it' is just plain silly at this point. If we haven't danced by the time Egolf, Maniscalco, and Thompson (3 four year recruits who specifically cited our Sweet 16 run as a deciding factor in coming to BU) are gone, then it will be fair to say we didn't capitalize on the Sweet 16 as much as we could have (although the donations towards our new multimillion dollar facility might say otherwise). Until those guys are gone, saying such things is very, very premature.

As far as this being 'the year', well, we will never know because of our injury issues. I don't think the 2006 team would have been able to endure the injury issues that this year's team did. That team was whole for the entire MVC season, which was essentially the deciding factor in that team even getting a bid to the tournament. Yes, everyone has injuries. But I think our record when whole more than speaks for itself.
 
Lakeview Brave said:
Bradley must have had some noterity or else Mo must have been the best recruiter ever. He had no facilites and no promise of new ones and landed amoung others Deon Jackson, AP, Bayo, Phil Gilbert and Danny Granger.
Click to expand...


Wasn't Mo the one who recruited all the great DePaul players (Agguire, et. al.) ? No doubt the man was a great recruiter, however he just happened to come to BU at a time when the University Prez made it a point to clean up the BU program academically (which was a good thing and has paid dividends to this day).

Mo was great for Bradley basketball and should always be remembered for all of the great things he did while he was here. But I believe that Les will take this program back to The Mountaintop.
 
BradleyBrave said:
As I said in the original thread, saying that the window is closed and that we 'blew it' is just plain silly at this point. If we haven't danced by the time Egolf, Maniscalco, and Thompson (3 four year recruits who specifically cited our Sweet 16 run as a deciding factor in coming to BU) are gone, then it will be fair to say we didn't capitalize on the Sweet 16 as much as we could have (although the donations towards our new multimillion dollar facility might say otherwise). Until those guys are gone, saying such things is very, very premature.
Click to expand...

I agree. It's kind of like evaluating a draft in the NFL. You can't just do it after a year or two, you have to look at it after about five years. In 2011 we'll see what the team looks like...whether the recruits we landed after the Sweet 16 run (SM, AT, WE, etc) continue to improve the program.

As an aside, I'm not sure how much there is to gain off one season's success. We need to consistently have success before we realistically take the program to the next level. I must say that even though I was disappointed with the result this year, I like the direction in which the program is heading based on the new facilities and the talent Les keeps bringing in.
 
BradleyBrave said:
Jim Les landed Marcellus Sommerville, POB, JC, Dan Ruffin, Lawrence Wright, Zach Andrews, and Andrew Warren without even a winning season under his belt (somewhat similar to Mo landing the players above), and he had no promise of facilities either. As I said in the original thread, saying that the window is closed and that we 'blew it' is just plain silly at this point. If we haven't danced by the time Egolf, Maniscalco, and Thompson (3 four year recruits who specifically cited our Sweet 16 run as a deciding factor in coming to BU) are gone, then it will be fair to say we didn't capitalize on the Sweet 16 as much as we could have (although the donations towards our new multimillion dollar facility might say otherwise). Until those guys are gone, saying such things is very, very premature.

As far as this being 'the year', well, we will never know because of our injury issues. I don't think the 2006 team would have been able to endure the injury issues that this year's team did. That team was whole for the entire MVC season, which was essentially the deciding factor in that team even getting a bid to the tournament. Yes, everyone has injuries. But I think our record when whole more than speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

Bradleybrave, I agree with most of what you are saying, but I think the bigger issue as to why this team didnt take off was that for whatever reason, this team didnt mesh. --too many new faces learning a new system and needing to figure out their roles and then compound this with the other issues.-- This is why I think that we have a good shot at being a much better team next year.
 
Da Coach said:
Guys, the Sweet 16 year has paid dividends, and will continue for several more years. Take time to talk to any of our coaches about it. Prior to 2006, Bradley was simply not a known entity outside of Illinois, and even among Chicago area kids, many never heard of Bradley. It's hard for us fans to comprehend, but it's pretty tough to even get in the door of a good recruit when they have never heard of Bradley.
Now at least most have heard of Bradley. It opens doors, and it is still paying off. The coaches have capitalized on it, and will continue to do so. The caliber of kids Bradley is recruiting has steadily increased.
Click to expand...

It only lasts a few years DC...it's not like we are now on the national map...every year we don't go to the NCAA it will get worse...we are so familiar with ourslves we think everyone should be. If Davidson doesn't get back to NCAA they will get forgotten a few years down the road.
I admit I don't know where many of those schools are from until you talk about them in the tourney....and around the country in circles they don't talk about BU's Sweet Sixteen near as much as they did then...we need to be like the Gonzaga's of the world to get there IMO
 
You dont have to concentrate on the final four as this article has done. All you need to do is to check out teams that made it to the sweet 16 in lets say the past 15-20 years.... Some build on the success some dont... That is why I favor a long term approach to our program on this as things dont automatically improve overnight with a good run into the NCAAA's.
 
lefty said:
It only lasts a few years DC...it's not like we are now on the national map...every year we don't go to the NCAA it will get worse...we are so familiar with ourslves we think everyone should be. If Davidson doesn't get back to NCAA they will get forgotten a few years down the road.
I admit I don't know where many of those schools are from until you talk about them in the tourney....and around the country in circles they don't talk about BU's Sweet Sixteen near as much as they did then...we need to be like the Gonzaga's of the world to get there IMO
Click to expand...

I know everyone wants ot make the NCAA, but getting to play in the CBI hasn't been all bad. It has provided us w/ 3 more home games and we have been on TV a lot (even though not everyone gets that station). Lets face it DU was 1 and done and how may are remembering them right now. The only way the NCAA becomes valuable to a "MId-Major" is if you are a Davidson or a Xavior or like we were 2 years ago and happen to make it to the sweet 16. In order for the NCAA tourn to do a team any good they have to win at least 1 and if a mid major they must make it to the sweet 16 for that tourn to be of any benefit in recruiting.
sure everyone wants to be in the NCAA but any post season tourn and a 20 plus win season is successful-not as successful as we would have liked but not alwasy does everything come together like one wants and this was one of those years.
 
basketball nut said:
I know everyone wants ot make the NCAA, but getting to play in the CBI hasn't been all bad. It has provided us w/ 3 more home games and we have been on TV a lot (even though not everyone gets that station). Lets face it DU was 1 and done and how may are remembering them right now. The only way the NCAA becomes valuable to a "MId-Major" is if you are a Davidson or a Xavior or like we were 2 years ago and happen to make it to the sweet 16. In order for the NCAA tourn to do a team any good they have to win at least 1 and if a mid major they must make it to the sweet 16 for that tourn to be of any benefit in recruiting.
sure everyone wants to be in the NCAA but any post season tourn and a 20 plus win season is successful-not as successful as we would have liked but not alwasy does everything come together like one wants and this was one of those years.
Click to expand...

that's a good call,

playing the CBI may seem like not too big of a deal to other teams, or the media. But so far we're 4/5, and our only loss was to the other Final team! Not to mention each of these games had RIDICULOUS comebacks and were solid games. Making it to the final is not the best thing to happen to BU by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't hurt our track record.
 
basketball nut said:
I know everyone wants ot make the NCAA, but getting to play in the CBI hasn't been all bad. It has provided us w/ 3 more home games and we have been on TV a lot (even though not everyone gets that station). Lets face it DU was 1 and done and how may are remembering them right now. The only way the NCAA becomes valuable to a "MId-Major" is if you are a Davidson or a Xavior or like we were 2 years ago and happen to make it to the sweet 16. In order for the NCAA tourn to do a team any good they have to win at least 1 and if a mid major they must make it to the sweet 16 for that tourn to be of any benefit in recruiting.
sure everyone wants to be in the NCAA but any post season tourn and a 20 plus win season is successful-not as successful as we would have liked but not alwasy does everything come together like one wants and this was one of those years.
Click to expand...

well if i had to choose between 4 out of 5 NCAA and out in the first game or one CBI championship the NCAA would be a much greater value.

I think we made the most out of the season we could given how everything played out during the year.

I don't thinkI'd compare Xavier to Drake or Davidson...Xavier is more well thought of in the b-ball world than the other two.
 
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