Shoot the ball...

[dogsrus]

I love oure patience on offense but it seems like we pass up some good shots. Now JL says just that thing...that we sometimes don't look for our shot as witnessed in the second half vs ISwho.

Its a fine line but with the zones we are probably about to see I wonder if we will forfiet at least SOME of our deliberate style and start looking to shoot a bit quicker. It will be interesting to see.

 

[SFP]

I also like patience but sometimes against the zone SM, DN or EM are wide open at the top and their first option is a pass. They should be looking first for their shot becuase in a zone you are either attacking it or finding space to shoot. I'd rather have us shoot a little quicker from the top of the key then settle for one of those corner shots!

 

[bluedevils1]

We have a lot of the same looks as the last few years, but just not shooting. Almost all of our shot fakes are useless because the D doesn't give in and we do the same fake every time. If our guards start shooting, the shot fakes will work and our offense will have a better flow. Someone has to step it up. Passing around is great for running the clock but consistenly passing up shots puts us in bad position when the clock gets low.

 

[Bradleyguy10]

These the same posters that were complaining about what a terrible shooting team we are. If we put up too many shots we will lose. Simple as that. We aren't a very good shooting team and if we start taking those shots it's almost like a turnover. If we started doing what you are suggesting then everyone would start moaning again about how we are a terrible shooting team. Let's just see what JL and the guys draw up for the zone CU will give us, and take it from there.

 

[amckillip]

These the same posters that were complaining about what a terrible shooting team we are. If we put up too many shots we will lose. Simple as that. We aren't a very good shooting team and if we start taking those shots it's almost like a turnover. If we started doing what you are suggesting then everyone would start moaning again about how we are a terrible shooting team. Let's just see what JL and the guys draw up for the zone CU will give us, and take it from there.

Agreed, we can't have it both ways. I say we stick with what's working. I agree we occasionally pass up a good look, but it isn't often enough to change what we're doing. Let's say 5 times a game we pass up a good look. And lets say we are an good 3 pt team - 40%, that means were missing 6 points. Assuming we shoot later in the possesion, and you figure in we're about as likely to end up scoring otherwise, even if there only 2's, we're giving up AT MOST 2 points a game using the pass first philosophy. Say we get 10 passed open looks a game, it is then only 4 points. I understand the frustration, but the game theory barely suggests we change anything. And once you factor in that a change in philosophy will probably lead to some bad shots, that are well below 40% probability of being made, it really just isn't worth it.

Sorry for geeking out there guys... Just the way I look at it...

 

[dogsrus]

I'm not "suggesting" anything. Just making a simple observation that I see every game. We pass up alot of open looks. I'm not saying thats good or bad.

NOW JL, as I stated, has mentioned it in regards to the zone ISU used against us.

AGAIN, its just an observation and a topic of discussion.

 

[dogsrus]

These the same posters that were complaining about what a terrible shooting team we are.

What posters are you talking about.....only 3 have even replied to the post and not a one has complained about anything.

Is Les "complaining" since he brought it up also.... ?

 

[amckillip]

I'm not "suggesting" anything. Just making a simple observation that I see every game. We pass up alot of open looks. I'm not saying thats good or bad.

NOW JL, as I stated, has mentioned it in regards to the zone ISU used against us.

AGAIN, its just an observation and a topic of discussion.

Definitely know what you're saying, and suggested the same thing in an earlier thread but thinking more about it I decided that didn't play to our strengths. Though I will admit, in response to my own earlier thread, 2-4 points at certain moments during a game can actually be the difference maker...

 

[MacabreMob]

Agreed, we can't have it both ways. I say we stick with what's working. I agree we occasionally pass up a good look, but it isn't often enough to change what we're doing. Let's say 5 times a game we pass up a good look. And lets say we are an good 3 pt team - 40%, that means were missing 6 points. Assuming we shoot later in the possesion, and you figure in we're about as likely to end up scoring otherwise, even if there only 2's, we're giving up AT MOST 2 points a game using the pass first philosophy. Say we get 10 passed open looks a game, it is then only 4 points. I understand the frustration, but the game theory barely suggests we change anything. And once you factor in that a change in philosophy will probably lead to some bad shots, that are well below 40% probability of being made, it really just isn't worth it.

Sorry for geeking out there guys... Just the way I look at it...

Plus - don't you need to factor in the extra possessions for the opponent since we are eating up less time on the game clock. So more possessions for them with more baskets scored. :lol:

 

[Bradleyguy10]

These the same posters that were complaining about what a terrible shooting team we are.

What posters are you talking about.....only 3 have even replied to the post and not a one has complained about anything.

Is Les "complaining" since he brought it up also.... ?

I was just using it as a general term meaning the majority of us. Earlier in the season we were moaning about how we can't shoot the 3 very well...including me...and now there is a thread entitled shoot the ball. I wasn't picking anyone out specifically. I understand you are just suggesting it but I have no problem with it. If they don't feel good or confident enough to take the shot then I don't want them taking it anyway..open or not. Now that's just strictly 3pointers. Two point shots I wouldn't mind seeing more people take them and get used to the higher percentage shots.

 

[Grassman]

Shoot The Ball

Shoot The Ball

We are not a great 3 point shooting team, maybe not even average.
However we can shoot from elsewhere.
That being said, this team will continue to win using its strengths, speed, quickness, and tenacity,
We must play 40 minutes of in your face defense and have a fast paced, effective, ball motion offense.
After all, that is what what has worked the last 4 games.
We need to continue to be "Warriors." The old Nolan Richarsdson "40 minutes of hell."

 

[real fan]

I think the coaching staff needs to go over the tape of the ISU game with each player and point out to them the good shots that they were passing up; a good shot for one player is a bad shot for another, we have been playing better because we have been making that extra pass to get a better shot but certain players need to be getting more shots.

 

[BradleyBrave]

I think our patience is fine. With this group, I would rather err on the side of caution rather than get them to think they can shoot again.

 

[VeveJones007]

Maybe it was just my positioning in the student section, but it didn't seem like they passed up too many great looks against the ISU zone. They were having a horrible time getting it inside to Theron/Singh/Collins so the inside-out wasn't working very well. Anyone else see that, or am I crazy?

 

[thefish7]

Maybe it was just my positioning in the student section, but it didn't seem like they passed up too many great looks against the ISU zone. They were having a horrible time getting it inside to Theron/Singh/Collins so the inside-out wasn't working very well. Anyone else see that, or am I crazy?

That's kinda how I saw it. I'm, like others, a bit afraid of shooting wild like they were earlier in the season, and love the tenacity, extra passing, etc... But when Roberts or Maniscalco (both mid 30%ish 3-point shooters) get the ball and no one is anywhere near them, some of the time they need to put those up, I think. I think it's a small adjustment, to be handled in film sessions, as real fan suggested, rather than a shift in philosophy.

 

[SFP]

VeVe I agree with you! When SM has the time to set his feet and square up I say bombs away, CR on the other hand shoots best with time expiring with a guy in his face lol! The next possession I guarantee that they will guard him tighter which will then allow some dribble penetration, which then really opens up the zone for some inside out passing game. In order to bust a zone you have to be able to take what they are giving you and not force it. Against ISU they were leaving the top of the key open and the corners. I much rather set up a top of a key look then a corner shot. I bet if you broke down the 3pt shot from let's say 5 basic areas, the 2 corners, the 2 sides and the top of the key, the top of the key would probably have the highest probability of being made. It is also the slosest and it allows the guard to play better transition D if needed.

 

[dogsrus]

Plus - don't you need to factor in the extra possessions for the opponent since we are eating up less time on the game clock. So more possessions for them with more baskets scored. :lol:

Nah just more blocks for us.....

 

[Out of Bounce]

I think our patience is fine. With this group, I would rather err on the side of caution rather than get them to think they can shoot again.

Come on BB, don't be so kind here. Say it like you feel and have said before (you just don't want to see them chucking-up 3's again):!::lol:
I agree with you;-) But there are ways to beat the zone and force them out of it.

I can think of the 3 main ways you can break down a zone.

1. Don't let them set up the zone (fast breaks, transition basketball)
2. Make a very high % of your outside shots
3. Attack the zone with quick pass's and drive to the hoop (draw the foul or make the 2 (maybe both) or if the zone collapse on the driving player then someone should be open (pass it) In a 1-3-1 zone the baseline is your friend.

We will be seeing allot of zone unless we show we can beat it most of the time

 

[dogsrus]

I was just using it as a general term meaning the majority of us. Earlier in the season we were moaning about how we can't shoot the 3 very well...including me...and now there is a thread entitled shoot the ball. I wasn't picking anyone out specifically. I understand you are just suggesting it but I have no problem with it. If they don't feel good or confident enough to take the shot then I don't want them taking it anyway..open or not. Now that's just strictly 3pointers. Two point shots I wouldn't mind seeing more people take them and get used to the higher percentage shots.

OK..thanks. I guess the title isn't the best.

 

[Strike Gold]

These the same posters that were complaining about what a terrible shooting team we are. If we put up too many shots we will lose. Simple as that. We aren't a very good shooting team and if we start taking those shots it's almost like a turnover. If we started doing what you are suggesting then everyone would start moaning again about how we are a terrible shooting team. Let's just see what JL and the guys draw up for the zone CU will give us, and take it from there.

I agree. We have begun to turn things around because we've moved away from the nature to shoot too much and with very poor results (Dodie Dunston not included) when we do. What we need to do is Get DC and SS 5-6 shots a piece every game. A dozen shots between your two primary post players is a must. This will create more room for the shooters, keep us going to the free thow line and reward our bigs for fighting for position down low. Im not sure how many of you have ever had the pleasure or misfortune of playing in the post, but after pushing and fighting and rebounding if you begin to see that your not getting touches,you quickly loose concentration and motivation.
This is a fact,like it or not.!!!!!!