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Moran flop or no?
- Thread starter MikeCash
- Start date
SaintLouBrave22
New member
It was obvious given the fact that Sanzere, Pollard, and Wymer were all given the game...
I'm not sure we'll end up with a crew collectively that bad the rest of the year.
houstontxbrave
New member
Tip was a real bad call.
The charge not good but from where Sanzere called it DSE did extend his arm, problem was Moran was already going down to the floor.
I am curious though when did palming the ball or carrying it become a non rule. Their point guard all night long craddled the ball especailly with his right hand.
We also got a foul called on us when I think it was Koch went to the rim, scored and I believe it was Brown was called for a foul. On the replay he was not touched by the 3 BU players near him.
Refs didnt lose this one, going a long stretch not scoring in the 2nd half lost this one, we had how many scoring opportunities that we missed in the mid part of the second half.
Id really like to see AW on nights were he cant make a shot, take it to the rim and stop forcing 3's.
The charge not good but from where Sanzere called it DSE did extend his arm, problem was Moran was already going down to the floor.
I am curious though when did palming the ball or carrying it become a non rule. Their point guard all night long craddled the ball especailly with his right hand.
We also got a foul called on us when I think it was Koch went to the rim, scored and I believe it was Brown was called for a foul. On the replay he was not touched by the 3 BU players near him.
Refs didnt lose this one, going a long stretch not scoring in the 2nd half lost this one, we had how many scoring opportunities that we missed in the mid part of the second half.
Id really like to see AW on nights were he cant make a shot, take it to the rim and stop forcing 3's.
DeltaBrave03
New member
The way I've always determined if i dislike an official especially in baseball too is if I remember they're name. If they're awful I remember their name if not who cares. Angel Hernandez in baseball and Pollard and Sanzere in hoops. Those are my 3 :biggrin:
I am not sure who the foul was called on but it should have been Singh got him from behind with his body. I think he hit him across the back of his head as well... pretty sure I saw the ref motion that was the foul when he called it- could be wrong though...
houstontxbrave
New member
I didnt type that one very well. 3 players allowing 1 guy to get to the rim between them score and we get a soft foul on us. If your going to foul at the rim foul hard and dont be passive.... all 3 of those players in that play allowed him to the rim with little resistance. Whoever it was on it was soft.
Gotcha... agree 100%
Yes he made that call and the biggest problem I had with the call is he made it from 30 ft. out and the officials that were closest to the play did not see a foul, the announcers also said it was very questionable which translated means very bad.
squirrelgotdead
New member
Isn't one of the things officials look for in that situation is the lowering of the shoulder? DSE did that, and that's probably why the call was made.
houstontxbrave
New member
Quite true, but is that reason enough to anticipate contact, hence making a call? DSE lowered his shoulder/ pushed out his left arm but contact did not cause Moran to go to the floor.
wily coyote
Active member
yes squirrel lowering the shoulder is certainly very obvious to an official and usually makes the call pretty easy.
houstontxbrave
New member
Wily, your always looking at everything with those black and white stripped eyes
But let me ask you if a player like DSE did put a shoulder down as he drove to the basket, is it acceptable to make the call simply based on his body action versus if the action even caused a foul to occur? Essentially anticipation of a foul because of a norm action that causes a foul?
Dubl R 1
Active member
First off, BU had plenty of chances to win this game, so Im not using this as an excuse, but that call was absolutely atrocious. Dont these refs get paid good money to use their so called expertise to decipher when someone flops or not? Moran was halfway to the ground before contact was even made. Not to mention, anybody who has ever played basketball at any level above grade school can attest that you dont just get flattened like that unless you are giving up 100+ pounds or you are flopping. I mean if you are really playing good D and being strong on the ball with your defense, no way u get bowled over like that unless you want to be. I just dont understand why these refs continually fall for it. The rule should be if the guy looks like he was shot in the face with a 12 guage, it was probably a flop.
Also, I swear, MVC refs are just waitin for Singh to set a ball screen, they can't wait to call a moving screen on him.
Dubl R 1
Active member
Also, when did it become acceptable for a point guard (Alleghebe sp?) to extend his off arm into the defenders chest at will. I mean, and review the tape if u disagree, but this guy does it almost EVERY time he drives inside the 3 point line, every time. This is legal? I don't understand that.
BuBraves55
New member
I believe you mean Tim Kurkjian, the worst official in the league.
http://statsheet.com/images/mcb/refs/mike-sanzere-large.jpg
http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/images/Graduation/Dec07/timk.jpg
tornado
New member
according to the statistics on statsheet.com,
Steve Welmer is #2 in all of Division I basketball in number of fouls called...
but he did not do our game Tuesday -- it was Terry Wymer, Mike Sanzere, and Gerry Pollard.
Here's a pic of Wymer -
Pollard is ranked #5 among all refs, in both total fouls called and most fouls per game...and also is among the top 4 in technicals called...
Wymer is ranked #34 out of several hundred ranked - so he's in the upper percentiles...
...and Sanzere has cut way down and has done far fewer games this year (only 24 thus far) and is at about the average in fouls called.
bradleybasketball
New member
FLOP.
I bet it would of went Bradley's way if they were playing at home.
I bet it would of went Bradley's way if they were playing at home.
wily coyote
Active member
No Houston it is not acceptable to base it on body action. At their level anticipation should not happen. I did not see the game so I can't comment whether he took a flop or not. There is a rule seldom used but I have seen it, where it is a "T" to fake a flop and start falling before contact. Most of the time that is ignored and they play on. If Moran did start going down before contact shame on the guy who had the whistle. If the contact was caused by DSE lowering his shoulder and the contact knocked Moran down that now becomes an easy call. See I can be objective.Wily, your always looking at everything with those black and white stripped eyes
But let me ask you if a player like DSE did put a shoulder down as he drove to the basket, is it acceptable to make the call simply based on his body action versus if the action even caused a foul to occur? Essentially anticipation of a foul because of a norm action that causes a foul?
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I figure the dropping the shoulder only matters if the player does it when he intentionally initiates contact-- trying to post up or make room for himself. In my opinion a guy who slides in front of the player (in this case wildly dives) without having established any sort of position anywhere cannot really be "charged." Any more knowledgeable fans/refs care to comment. I thought this play was either a no-call or a blocking foul, but never a charge.