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The vicious cycle of not being elite

srw said:
On TB being elite..

He could be an elite 3 I believe...But the problem with this collection of players is its way to heavy on the guard end which forces him into the 4 role, egolf into the 5 etc.
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A heavy guard team could do well IMO if we had guards of the same caliber as the '06-'07 team, which many seem to forget somehow. That was a team that could have gone to the NCAA had it not lost to UNI @ home.

Ruffin, JC, Will, Tauai, Danny Adams, freshman Warren > Maniscalco (even healthy), senior Warren, Dunson, DSE, Lemon, Eastman

The missing ingredient I think is that our current guards top to bottom aren't as good at outside shots as the '06-'07 team. Certainly, Lemon, Eastman, and DSE aren't.

An injured Maniscalco and Warren are the only ones really. Dunson's 3 pt % is at 27% thus far. So, we've got a bunch of guards who can't shoot consistently from outside, and we're playing a guard heavy team...
 
ser_solace said:
A heavy guard team could do well IMO if we had guards of the same caliber as the '06-'07 team, which many seem to forget somehow. That was a team that could have gone to the NCAA had it not lost to UNI @ home.
Ruffin, JC, Will, Tauai, Danny Adams, freshman Warren > Maniscalco (even healthy), senior Warren, Dunson, DSE, Lemon, Eastman

The missing ingredient I think is that our current guards top to bottom aren't as good at outside shots as the '06-'07 team. Certainly, Lemon, Eastman, and DSE aren't.

An injured Maniscalco and Warren are the only ones really. Dunson's 3 pt % is at 27% thus far. So, we've got a bunch of guards who can't shoot consistently from outside, and we're playing a guard heavy team...
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Very true, however we had a very good, very capable big man that year in Zach Andrews and a serviceable backup in Matt Salley. We haven't had a big man remotely close to the caliber of ZA since then, nor have we had someone who could defend or rebound like Matt Salley. That's the difference, first and foremost. I think we'd all be amazed at how much better we'd shoot from the outside if we had a big man averaging 11 pts and 7 rebounds like Zach did in '06-'07. ;)
 
ZA was also under size as a 5! I will hold my comments of what I believe will happen to this team this year. Next year is way to far away to worry about it!
 
SFP said:
ZA was also under size as a 5! I will hold my comments of what I believe will happen to this team this year. Next year is way to far away to worry about it!
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You can play and win with a 6'8" center in the MVC. SIU did it quite well with Randal Falker. ZA played to his 6'8", and could score on the block. We haven't had a big be able to do that since he was here.
 
Funches was a very tough post player at 6''4 or so. Rebounding is mostly about position and attitude and most of JL's teams seem to play soft in this area.

That being said, there isn't much wrong with this team that a good post player wouldn't fix. It is no accident that BU's best years this decade were with POB. He could block and alter shots on the defensive end, and commanded double teams on the offensive side, both of which helps your guards be much more effective, etc., etc., etc.

IMO, in the Valley, it's not that you can't get big guys, but you have to get a little lucky and have one develop into a good, tough post player, and that hasn't happened with AT & WE.

If JP or someone else happens to become that player, then I think we will see the program take a quick turn for the better, as good guards & fowards are easier to come by than a good center.

JMHO
 
tangjar1 said:
Funches was a very tough post player at 6''4 or so. Rebounding is mostly about position and attitude and most of JL's teams seem to play soft in this area.

That being said, there isn't much wrong with this team that a good post player wouldn't fix. It is no accident that BU's best years this decade were with POB. He could block and alter shots on the defensive end, and commanded double teams on the offensive side, both of which helps your guards be much more effective, etc., etc., etc.

IMO, in the Valley, it's not that you can't get big guys, but you have to get a little lucky and have one develop into a good, tough post player, and that hasn't happened with AT & WE.

If JP or someone else happens to become that player, then I think we will see the program take a quick turn for the better, as good guards & fowards are easier to come by than a good center.

JMHO
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People forget about Funches too. He was a TON underneath and had a nice shot out to about 15-16 feet. He would do wonders for this year's team.
 
srw said:
I can agree with this real..

Question for you....

Lets say 32 mins for TB.( at the small forward position)
That leaves you 88 mins for..

SM AW DSE WL and DD

Who do we play....Im not in any way disagreeing...Just showing the imbalance.
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There would be an imbalance, good problem to have as you play the ones that contribute on both ends the most and keep them fresher by playing them only 25 min. a game, minutes are not a forgiven as they should be earned out on the floor, we have 3 seniors and with injuries there is always plenty of minutes to go around, if you are not satisfied with your minutes then do something positive to earn more, we cannot play just 1 big guy at a time because we are trying to stay out of foul trouble, it hurts the team more and also when players are being played out of position they more then likely will commit more fouls , coach these players right so they do not continue to make dumb fouls.
 
BradleyBrave said:
You can play and win with a 6'8" center in the MVC. SIU did it quite well with Randal Falker. ZA played to his 6'8", and could score on the block. We haven't had a big be able to do that since he was here.
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I was a huge ZA fan but his demeanor was more of a true 4. 6'8" is fine for the Valley but not if you want to achieve more. I agree we have not had a big like that since him or for that fact a Matt Salley, I'll take no prisoner attitude. Now that is sad. WE needs to stop trying to finesse his game and get back to basics and I still have hope for JP.
 
SFP said:
6'8" is fine for the Valley but not if you want to achieve more.
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Falker was 6'7" and got them to a Sweet 16, the same place our lottery pick got us (he also got them an MVC crown over our lottery pick). Not sure what 'more' is to you; an MVC crown and Sweet 16 would be OK for me from a 6'7" center. If a guy can play he can play. Can ours?
 
BradleyBrave said:
Falker was 6'7" and got them to a Sweet 16, the same place our lottery pick got us (he also got them an MVC crown over our lottery pick). Not sure what 'more' is to you; an MVC crown and Sweet 16 would be OK for me from a 6'7" center. If a guy can play he can play. Can ours?
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Fair but they also had a lot more then Falker on the floor that loved to play D!
 
BradleyBrave said:
There's no 'fair but'; the discussion was about about the height of the center.
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BB what is your beef with me. They made it to the Sweet 16 on their D and did not go further because of their lack of a true big! Falker was good enough for the Valley is a fair statement but not good enough to be an elite school! :-o
 
SFP said:
BB what is your beef with me. They made it to the Sweet 16 on their D and did not go further because of their lack of a true big! Falker was good enough for the Valley is a fair statement but not good enough to be an elite school! :-o
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I don't have a beef with you SFP. You're one of my favorite posters!

No MVC team since Bird has made it past the Sweet 16, and I think if you recall SIU had Kansas beaten and it was a Bryan Mullins missed layup that kept the door open for the Jayhawks.

And I am more concerned right now with getting through the MVC than I am the NCAA's. One step at a time...
 
BradleyBrave said:
I don't have a beef with you SFP. You're one of my favorite posters!

No MVC team since Bird has made it past the Sweet 16, and I think if you recall SIU had Kansas beaten and it was a Bryan Mullins missed layup that kept the door open for the Jayhawks.

And I am more concerned right now with getting through the MVC than I am the NCAA's. One step at a time...
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Ding Ding Ding...We are worlds away from the elite 8....
We might not be top 8 in the Valley if ankles get in the way
 
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