Only 2 MVC teams in NCAA?

[CLBravesfan]

After watching the Mo. State-Winthrop game, I really question Mo. State chances of getting a bid. They basically got out played in all areas of the game at home.

 

[MacabreMob]

I agree that this is possible. Mo St is playing themselves out of the tourney and we certainly don't look worthy (yet).

Would be a shame for the MVC to only get 2 bids .... and maybe get a 7 seed and a 9 seed to boot.

 

[Bravesfan]

I agree that this is possible. Mo St is playing themselves out of the tourney and we certainly don't look worthy (yet).

Would be a shame for the MVC to only get 2 bids .... and maybe get a 7 seed and a 9 seed to boot.

Well, if the "conferences don't earn bids, but teams do" argument holds true, then SIU should get a 6 seed or higher based on their own resume of work, and not the conference's. Put it this way. If the Valley is not as good as we thought it was, then the 15-3 conference record that SIU may very well finish with should offset any drop in conference RPI. I still feel confident that a 15-3 finish, and a Valley finals appearence should get them at least a 5 seed. An 8 or 9 seed for Creighton sounds about right.

As far as MSU, whew! What can I say? They looked completely outclassed in the second half tonight, and I can only imagine what the posters are saying about Hinson on that other board! It is good for us though, in that a win tomorrow night might put us ahead of MSU in the pecking order, at least in the eyes of some committee members. Even if we lose at VCU but win out in conference, we still look better then MSU does.

Of course if MSU wins their last two games, I think they're still in, but as a 12 or 13 seed at best. Still a lot of basketball to play though!

 

[Braves4Life]

Selections

Selections

What I find disgusting is all this talk of ACC, Big-10, SEC, and Big (l)East getting 6-9 teams in each. What a joke!

There should be 3-5 Valley teams in based on both team and conference RPI alone. The committee needs to take at least one less team from each of these conferences to be sure no less than three Valley teams get in. (of course, conference tournament upsets will probably play havoc with selections this year) :roll:

 

[real fan]

Wonder how many years Barry has left on his contract as after tonight he has to be concerned about it as they were not prepared to play against that team.

 

[Bravesfan]

Wonder how many years Barry has left on his contract as after tonight he has to be concerned about it as they were not prepared to play against that team.

As frustrating as fans feel regarding Hinson in Springfield, I'm sure anyone of the bottom four teams in this conference would love to have the record he has had the last few years!

 

[Bravesfan]

Re: Selections

Re: Selections

What I find disgusting is all this talk of ACC, Big-10, SEC, and Big (l)East getting 6-9 teams in each. What a joke!

There should be 3-5 Valley teams in based on both team and conference RPI alone. The committee needs to take at least one less team from each of these conferences to be sure no less than three Valley teams get in. (of course, conference tournament upsets will probably play havoc with selections this year) :roll:

I think each of those aforementioned conferences can spare a team or two!

Sorry Vitale. You're a good person, but there is no way the ACC will field 8 teams into the tournament! That conference is just as messed up as the Valley, and some commentators are beginning to mention that!

 

[VromanFan]

Re: Selections

Re: Selections

What I find disgusting is all this talk of ACC, Big-10, SEC, and Big (l)East getting 6-9 teams in each. What a joke!

There should be 3-5 Valley teams in based on both team and conference RPI alone. The committee needs to take at least one less team from each of these conferences to be sure no less than three Valley teams get in. (of course, conference tournament upsets will probably play havoc with selections this year) :roll:

I think each of those aforementioned conferences can spare a team or two!

Sorry Vitale. You're a good person, but there is no way the ACC will field 8 teams into the tournament! That conference is just as messed up as the Valley, and some commentators are beginning to mention that!

Listen, I love the MVC. It's pure college hoops man...the double round robin...no football schools...its great...but we can't legitimately compare to the ACC....at least not now...does any MVC team compare to UNC or even Duke ability wise? There's a gap there we have yet to close...If our conference deserved 3+ bids out TEAMS would take care of business on their home court (MSU/SMS)....not lose in Cookesvile (Braves)...have more than one win against the RPI top 50 (Braves)...not collapse in conference play (WSU)...not totally collapse down the stretch (UNI).

I think the conference has gotten hosed in the past. We deserved five teams last year. No question. But lets look at this season. Make a credible case for BU, WSU, or UNI being a top 40 team in the country right now and therefore worthy of an at large bid. I mean up to today's action of course. I don't think it holds up. Tell me otherwise if that's what you belive...but talk about the TEAMS and what they've done to deserve it.

I just don't agree with the whole MVC is getting slighted argument...not this year. Maybe this silly ESPN event will go better tomorrow and I'll feel more optimistic.

I mean come on...top Valley teams are losing at HOME to the Big South conference and we are actually gonna compare ourselves to the ACC?

Just my honest opinion...I'll respect all of yours...I just don't feel more than three TEAMS in our conference deserve bids right now...and MSU might be fumbling the ball if tonight was any indication.

Thanks for letting me ramble. I've had a couple of soda pops tonight/this morning.

Cheers,
VromanFan

 

[ER3]

Fantastic work...MSU. Thanks so much. The Valley is officially a two-bid league now, unless someone other than Creighton or SIU wins the tourney...Berruh's Bears got humiliated at home on national television tonight by a team from the Big South Conference...lovely. So much for the 'Valley is a power conference' thing...ooops. And now it knocks us down a notch because we got smoked twice by this lousy, gutless squad that wet themselves at home tonight.
Oh well. The Valley had a chance to make a statement by winning 7 or 8 of these bracketbuster games...and right out of the gates, a game that was one of the 2 or 3 most winnable of the matchups for our conference...and it was a total mismatch in favor of the team from the Big South Conference....great work. Enjoy the NIT yet again, Berruh...cry and moan about how you beat Wisconsin one night 4 months ago...blah blah blah...I've seen this movie. The sequel is even more pathetic.
Sorry, had to vent. Go BU...

 

[MacabreMob]

Here is what JPalm's got as of yesterday afternoon:

ACC

(Bid - Team - Conf record - [rpi])

M 6 Boston College 9-3 [25]
E 2 North Carolina 8-3 [3]
W 3 Virginia Tech 8-3 [19]
M 4 Virginia 8-3 [37]
E 5 Duke 6-6 [11]
W 9 Clemson 5-6 [27]
S 8 Maryland 5-6 [31]
M 9 Georgia Tech 5-6 [40]
S 10 Florida St 5-7 [33]
NB North Carolina St 3-8 [124]
NB Miami-Florida 3-8 [160]
NB Wake Forest 3-9 [115]

MVC

W 4 Southern Illinois 13-3 [8]
S 9 Creighton 12-4 [24]
E 12 Missouri St 10-6 [42]
NB Bradley 9-7 [44]
NB Wichita St 8-8 [76]
NB Northern Iowa 7-9 [90]
NB Evansville 6-10 [123]
NB Drake 5-11 [111]
NB Illinois St 5-11 [129]
NB Indiana St 5-11 [126]

 

[tornado]

Now, with Missouri State's loss in the BracketBuster, the Valley's best bet to assure 3 teams in the NCAA is for BU to win out,
winning tonight in Richmond, then two conference home games to finish 11-7, and if MSU loses their last two against WSU and unpredictable Drake, then BU would hold 3rd place all to themselves. Then if BU can either win or do well in the tourney BU would get the 3rd Valley bid.

This has been an optimistic goal that I have held for BU since before the season started.
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5311

 

[Dallas Brave]

Now, with Missouri State's loss in the BracketBuster, the Valley's best bet to assure 3 teams in the NCAA is for BU to win out,
winning tonight in Richmond, then two conference home games to finish 11-7, and if MSU loses their last two against WSU and unpredictable Drake, then BU would hold 3rd place all to themselves. Then if BU can either win or do well in the tourney BU would get the 3rd Valley bid.

This has been an optimistic goal that I have held for BU since before the season started.
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5311

The MSU loss may provide even more motivation for BU to go out there and take VCU down. With MSU sliding out of the NCAA picture, the door is open for BU to make its case because I think the NCCA takes 3 from the MVC this year.

 

[Grassman]

Now, with Missouri State's loss in the BracketBuster, the Valley's best bet to assure 3 teams in the NCAA is for BU to win out,
winning tonight in Richmond, then two conference home games to finish 11-7, and if MSU loses their last two against WSU and unpredictable Drake, then BU would hold 3rd place all to themselves. Then if BU can either win or do well in the tourney BU would get the 3rd Valley bid.

This has been an optimistic goal that I have held for BU since before the season started.
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5311

The MSU loss may provide even more motivation for BU to go out there and take VCU down. With MSU sliding out of the NCAA picture, the door is open for BU to make its case because I think the NCCA takes 3 from the MVC this year.

All we need to do is "Win-Baby!" However, it will not be easy.

 

[Dallas Brave]

Re: Selections

Re: Selections

There's a gap there we have yet to close...If our conference deserved 3+ bids out TEAMS would take care of business on their home court (MSU/SMS)....not lose in Cookesvile (Braves)...have more than one win against the RPI top 50 (Braves)...not collapse in conference play (WSU)...not totally collapse down the stretch (UNI).

...

I just don't agree with the whole MVC is getting slighted argument...not this year.
Cheers,
VromanFan

I think VMan makes a good case. This was a year of love being shown he Valley. Look at the preseason rankings. CU, WSU, and SIU were all getting serious winks and nods.

The Valley is a conference still in transition ???‚¬??? we???‚¬?„?re not there yet, but our foundation to build from is fantastic. There has always been at least 2 teams turned out each year that can the conference can be proud of when the tournament rolls around. But, what has allowed the MVC to separate from the other mid-majors is that the bottom tier of the MVC has improved dramatically the last few years in terms of quality coaches and players. What needs to happen now is for the top tier teams of the Valley to raise their quality to a new level, so that the gap between the haves and the have-nots stays in place. i.e., the bottom stays good, the top gets great. Parity can be bad thing when you want to tout your prettiest girls.

Another step for the conference to closely consider is moving to 12 teams. Two divisions of 6 and all teams play 16 conference games. You might do it with the current 10 - two divisions of 5 and each team plays 13 conference games. I haven't thought this all the way through, but a conference needs to win their non-conference games early on and avoid letting league play beat them up so badly that they can't muster the strength for non-conference foes later in the year. I believe MSU would have pounded Winthrop (like the sissy he is) if they would have played two months ago.

Among the top tier teams (even though they are consistently picked to finish in the bottom half), I think BU has a good chance to emerge as the Valley program that be consistently considered for top-25 preseason press. JL can recruit and coach, ESPN exposure for league has begun, Peoria provides a top-notch fan base and playing arena ... the BU program has a chance to enter Gonzaga-level territory in the next 3-5 years. Sign the next POB-like big man and the path is there for the taking.

 

[Grassman]

Re: Selections

Re: Selections

There's a gap there we have yet to close...If our conference deserved 3+ bids out TEAMS would take care of business on their home court (MSU/SMS)....not lose in Cookesvile (Braves)...have more than one win against the RPI top 50 (Braves)...not collapse in conference play (WSU)...not totally collapse down the stretch (UNI).

...

I just don't agree with the whole MVC is getting slighted argument...not this year.
Cheers,
VromanFan

I think VMan makes a good case. This was a year of love being shown he Valley. Look at the preseason rankings. CU, WSU, and SIU were all getting serious winks and nods.

The Valley is a conference still in transition ???‚¬??? we???‚¬?„?re not there yet, but our foundation to build from is fantastic. There has always been at least 2 teams turned out each year that can the conference can be proud of when the tournament rolls around. But, what has allowed the MVC to separate from the other mid-majors is that the bottom tier of the MVC has improved dramatically the last few years in terms of quality coaches and players. What needs to happen now is for the top tier teams of the Valley to raise their quality to a new level, so that the gap between the haves and the have-nots stays in place. i.e., the bottom stays good, the top gets great. Parity can be bad thing when you want to tout your prettiest girls.

Another step for the conference to closely consider is moving to 12 teams. Two divisions of 6 and all teams play 16 conference games. You might do it with the current 10 - two divisions of 5 and each team plays 13 conference games. I haven't thought this all the way through, but a conference needs to win their non-conference games early on and avoid letting league play beat them up so badly that they can't muster the strength for non-conference foes later in the year. I believe MSU would have pounded Winthrop (like the sissy he is) if they would have played two months ago.

Among the top tier teams (even though they are consistently picked to finish in the bottom half), I think BU has a good chance to emerge as the Valley program that be consistently considered for top-25 preseason press. JL can recruit and coach, ESPN exposure for league has begun, Peoria provides a top-notch fan base and playing arena ... the BU program has a chance to enter Gonzaga-level territory in the next 3-5 years. Sign the next POB-like big man and the path is there for the taking.

Dallas Brave: You are a wise man!. Now one of those two new teams HAS to be Butler, the other should be St. Lou.

 

[VromanFan]

Re: Selections

Re: Selections

"Parity can be bad thing when you want to tout your prettiest girls."

Fair points all Dallas Brave. I'm a fan of the double round robin format but I sure here what you're saying. If we were able to get say Butler and SLU involved that would be hard to turn down.

I'd like to nominate the sentence I reprinted above for quote of the year. I'm not going to ask if you know that through experience because your answer might incriminate youself...but in the figurative sense at least I will request of you to Keep Pimping...

 

[BTID]

I could see the Valley only getting 2 bids this year too even though the top-to-bottom strength of the league has probably never been better in the modern era.

Still, a third bid or possibly more than that is there for the taking by anyone who can get hot in St. Louis. UNI and MSU seem to be slumping a bit down the stretch. WSU had a horrible mid-season stretch of games. Time will tell if the same fate will befall BU in its last 3 games. The upside for the Braves is that they haven't lost to any of the bottom 4 teams (with 1 game left to go). The 3 teams ahead of Bradley cannot say that. On the flipside, we are just 1-5 against the teams ahead of us. Today's game in Richmond is bigger for us than it is for VCU, because they lead the CAA and have a good chance to finish first prior to their conference tournament.

I don't know if conferences that play a true round-robin schedule like the MVC, Pac-10, WAC, or MWC are hurt or helped more than conferences that play an unbalanced schedule like the Big 12, MAC, Big East, Big 10, SEC, or Sun Belt. Last year, the Pac-10 was down and only got 3 teams in the tournament. This year they could get as many as 6.

In the past, the school and athletic administrations at Butler and St. Louis have said they aren't going to another conference anytime soon. Butler likes the Horizon League and feels it has more in common with the member schools there than they do in the Missouri Valley. The only people in St. Louis that like being in the Atlantic 10 are the adminstrators at the school. Still, they carry the clout for SLU. Since the Billikens are "too good" to hang around nearby midwestern schools, I say let 'em make road trips to Duquesne, Rhode Island, and Fordham. If they really wanted to come back to the Missouri Valley, they would have done so long ago.

On another note, I happen to like variety. We've already got 3 teams that wear blue and white--we don't need 2 more :lol:!

 

[BuBraves55]

ya wouldnt be surprised w/ 2 bid year from valley
but it all depends on what happens in st. louis

 

[BradleyBrave]

Re: Selections

Re: Selections

What I find disgusting is all this talk of ACC, Big-10, SEC, and Big (l)East getting 6-9 teams in each. What a joke!

There should be 3-5 Valley teams in based on both team and conference RPI alone. The committee needs to take at least one less team from each of these conferences to be sure no less than three Valley teams get in. (of course, conference tournament upsets will probably play havoc with selections this year) :roll:

I think each of those aforementioned conferences can spare a team or two!

Sorry Vitale. You're a good person, but there is no way the ACC will field 8 teams into the tournament! That conference is just as messed up as the Valley, and some commentators are beginning to mention that!

Listen, I love the MVC. It's pure college hoops man...the double round robin...no football schools...its great...but we can't legitimately compare to the ACC....at least not now...does any MVC team compare to UNC or even Duke ability wise? There's a gap there we have yet to close...If our conference deserved 3+ bids out TEAMS would take care of business on their home court (MSU/SMS)....not lose in Cookesvile (Braves)...have more than one win against the RPI top 50 (Braves)...not collapse in conference play (WSU)...not totally collapse down the stretch (UNI).

I think the conference has gotten hosed in the past. We deserved five teams last year. No question. But lets look at this season. Make a credible case for BU, WSU, or UNI being a top 40 team in the country right now and therefore worthy of an at large bid. I mean up to today's action of course. I don't think it holds up. Tell me otherwise if that's what you belive...but talk about the TEAMS and what they've done to deserve it.

I just don't agree with the whole MVC is getting slighted argument...not this year. Maybe this silly ESPN event will go better tomorrow and I'll feel more optimistic.

I mean come on...top Valley teams are losing at HOME to the Big South conference and we are actually gonna compare ourselves to the ACC?

Just my honest opinion...I'll respect all of yours...I just don't feel more than three TEAMS in our conference deserve bids right now...and MSU might be fumbling the ball if tonight was any indication.

Thanks for letting me ramble. I've had a couple of soda pops tonight/this morning.

Cheers,
VromanFan

I see your point VromanFan, and agree with it to a degree. The MVC does not have a UNC-caliber team, no question. But I am not convinced that that the top 3-4 teams (including BU) can't compete on a nightly basis with the rest of that league. Here's why:

-SIU beat Virginia Tech, who's a 1/2 game out of 1st in the ACC
-Boston College, currently 1st place in the ACC, has lost at home to Vermont by 14, and at home to an awful Duquesne team (RPI 188) by 5.
-Virginia Tech has also lost to Western Michigan (RPI 145), Marshall (RPI 166), and George Washington (RPI 88 ).
-Virginia has lost to Appalachian St (playing WSU in today's BracketBuster) and a bad Utah team by 24.
-Duke doesn't really have any 'bad' losses like these other team, but had a tough time at home with average teams like Kent St, and never left home in the non-con. Also, if you've watched them play, they're pretty average offensively and could lose to any of the top 4 MVC teams on a given night.

Now, the dilineation between conferences comes from Clemson down to NC State. The bottom 5 of the MVC are a level below Clemson, Maryland, Georgia Tech, and FSU. UNI, Evansville, Indiana St, Drake, and ISU would lose most of their games to those teams IMO. I'm not saying they couldn't sneak one in here or there, but I don't think those teams could hold up over the course of the season. SIU, CU, MSU, BU, and maybe even WSU could hang right in there on a nightly basis with all of the teams in that league sans UNC. The losses those teams have supports that.

What does that all mean? In my world, it means that the MVC has an argument for 4 teams (only if BU finishes strong and shows well in St. Louis), and the ACC has an argument for 6 or 7. The ACC is a better conference from top to bottom, but outside of UNC I don't think the rest of the league is that much better than the top 4 teams in the MVC.

The MVC should worry more about a bad Big East getting more teams than they deserve, and leagues like the Mountain West, Horizon, WAC, A-10, and C-USA having something crazy happen in their conference tournaments. That will squeeze the MVC out of bids more than the BCS conferences (sans Big East) will.

 

[Fetz86]

Teams that finish below .500 in their conference should not recieve tourney bids. same as teams that dont win their conference championship shouldnt be able to play in the bcs national championship game in football.