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PJS Reporter Calls Readers Hypocrites

Some of the publicity has indeed been very inaccurate.
Over on the PJ Star message board (run, by the way, by the PJ Star) there has been discussion for over a week that Brian Carlwell's blood alcohol level was zero.
I am stumped how the person who posted that could know, when in fact Jamar's grandfather seems to state unequivocally the opposite,
"This was called power shots or something, to see how much you could drink in an hour. Jamar and Brian were both blasted. They both were drinking, and everyone knows that."
http://pjstar.com/stories/030607/ILL_BCIJJN0E.072.php

:-o


By the way, you can do your own search if you want, but there have only been a couple discussions on this board about Jamar, mostly discussing the facts of his case and his court action. I agree it has been the press both locally and even nationally that has taken this case and made a huge deal out of it the same way they make talentless people like Anna Nichole into worldwide mega-stars.
Bill Liesse does indeed post on the Illinois message boards, so I also would like for him to explain who he is criticizing?
(as seen in this discussion when he embarrassed himself by ripping into Eric Gordon and Gordon's family then went public on the message boards with his retraction and apology)
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4381
 
Bill Liesse calls us hypocrites and asks all of us to be forgiving and not condemn Jamar Smith for his obvious legal transgressions. "Where's the victim?", he asks.

Is this the same Bill Liesse that ripped Eric Gordon and his father, calling the 17 year old "that steaming pile of 2 guard"?
Excuse me, but what law did Eric Gordon or his father break?
Who is the real hypocrite here?
It seems like Bill liesse has just defined himself as the ultimate hypocrite!
It's OK to judge a 17 year old kid who has broken no laws or rules, because it hurts his beloved Illini. But he will not tolerate the public's judgement (he even quotes a bunch of lines from the bible completely out of context) of a kid who has broken several laws, committed possible felonies, was drinking excessively (which is against team rules), and left his teammate for dead, and yet was back sitting on the team's bench a few days later.

At least Ron Zook seems to have a more realistic sense of what is proper. He has acted swiftly and suspended 2 football players who are merely accused of burglery (isn't that exactly what Luther Head was guilty of?). Maybe Bill Liesse should vent his forgiveness crap toward Ron Zook.

I, for one, am sick of the Illini basketball program overlooking thugs and felons in the interest of winning games.
And, Bill, please spare us the biblical references.
 
OK, I just read the PJ Star articles.
Jamar was guilty of boozing heavily, driving drunk, causing an accident entirely by himself, causing property damage and serious bodily injury, leaving the scene of the accident (which is a felony), and showing great disregard for Brian Carlwell. He still hasn't called authorities for help or to report the accident. It seems like he has broken a number of team rules, in addition to a number of laws, and caused great embarrassment to the Illinois program.

And according to the article, he has not been officially suspended or punished in any way by Bruce Weber, who invited him back to sit on the team bench the Feb. 21 game.

Does the PJHS writer think that's appropriate? Shouldn't Weber show some backbone? Don't all these violations of team rules and laws deserve some clear punishment?

I agree with one thing- the hypocrisy here is most obvious with the way the media reports and handles this. The Illinois fans among the media think it's all overblown, and the poor kid just had a lapse of judgement. Just like the Mike Nadel article yesterday. Because he is a friend of Rob Judson, he writes a whole article imploring Northern Illinois not to fire him.
If it was any other coach, he would have ripped him for his poor record. In this case, Liesse asks for forgiveness, yet he was quick to condemn Kelvin Sampson and Eric Gordon for the unforgiveable transgression of taking away Illinois' top recruit.
 
Yes, I guess if there is no victim, as the author says, we shouldn't consider it a crime. I'll try that with the next cop that tickets me for speeding.

We should also try to convince Mothers Against Drunk Driving that it's often a victimless crime.
 
Do we know there was no victim?
Who's gonna pay for the massive damage to the Reverend's car?
Was there significant monetary damages to the property or the tree?
Surely there were huge expenses that someone's going to have to pay for the medical care rendered and the 911 costs to the emergency response system.

But I am curious about one other thing.
The news reports, and even the testimony coming from Jamar's grandfather seem to confirm that MANY of the Illinois basketball players were drinking heavily at the party, on a weeknight with classes scheduled the next morning, and many of them were underage.
The names given were Jamar Smith (19 years old), Brian Carlwell (19 years old), Chester Frazier (20 years old), and the rest of the players who were at the drinking party have yet to be named publicly BUT, the reports I have seen unofficially from people who lived at those apartments also hint that at least one or two other underage players were there drinking.

Does the Illinois program have NO RULES against drinking underage? I'll bet if they looked at their own rules, they'd find that they do have rules against it.
Even the SIU program, as lax as they have been with discipline, earlier this year suspended one player merely for drinking underage.

How come the Illini staff have made ABSOLUTELY no effort to find and discipline this illegal activity by their players?
They act as if it didn't happen, and all those players are still playing or practicing...even Jamar is still practicing!

I have also lost lots of respect for them, and despite the hypocrisy name-calling by Liesse, if any of my children were caught drinking underage and were involved in a total mess like this where drunken individuals were driving, causing great bodily injury, and failing to render aid or call authorities, I would handle it myself, and you wouldn't have to wait for the coach to act!
I am not the hypocrite here, I believe in discipline and holding to the rules.
It is Liesse who is demanding we suspend the rules here and forgive...
What would that lead to in this day of almost daily lawbreaking by athletes in colleges, if we simply forgave and looked the other way every time.
Thankfully Zook feels differently.



PS-- who was the victim in the activity that cost Ray Brown a full year?
And which cost Mike Suggs his full scholarship at BU?
And which cost Will Franklin a 6 game suspension and POB an 8 game suspension?
 
Illini Fan said:
Bill Liesse calls us hypocrites and asks all of us to be forgiving and not condemn Jamar Smith for his obvious legal transgressions. "Where's the victim?", he asks.

Is this the same Bill Liesse that ripped Eric Gordon and his father, calling the 17 year old "that steaming pile of 2 guard"?
Excuse me, but what law did Eric Gordon or his father break?
Who is the real hypocrite here?
It seems like Bill liesse has just defined himself as the ultimate hypocrite!
It's OK to judge a 17 year old kid who has broken no laws or rules, because it hurts his beloved Illini. But he will not tolerate the public's judgement (he even quotes a bunch of lines from the bible completely out of context) of a kid who has broken several laws, committed possible felonies, was drinking excessively (which is against team rules), and left his teammate for dead, and yet was back sitting on the team's bench a few days later.

At least Ron Zook seems to have a more realistic sense of what is proper. He has acted swiftly and suspended 2 football players who are merely accused of burglery (isn't that exactly what Luther Head was guilty of?). Maybe Bill Liesse should vent his forgiveness crap toward Ron Zook.

I, for one, am sick of the Illini basketball program overlooking thugs and felons in the interest of winning games.
And, Bill, please spare us the biblical references.
Click to expand...

Very insightful comments. You should share them with Mr. Liesse
 
Quote by Liesse ...."In an incident with, ultimately, no injuries".

Crtitcle condition means there were injuries, just ask whoever it is that going to pay that bill and who isn't playing because of head injuries.

What the he!! is he smoking?
 
Murph said:
Quote by Liesse ...."In an incident with, ultimately, no injuries".

Crtitcle condition means there were injuries, just ask whoever it is that going to pay that bill and who isn't playing because of head injuries.

What the he!! is he smoking?
Click to expand...

Newport unfiltered, and occasionally a large peace pipe packed with the sweaty practice socks and jerseys of past Illini greats. Andy Kaufman, Richard Keene, Jerry Gee, and Bryant Notree, just to name a few. He rears back, takes a long big drag, then writes a column until he passes out. :lol:
 
You gotta admit it though, it was very generous of KW to step down and let ol' Bill ascend to the pulpit for a bit. The air is a little cleaner up there and it is easier to think more clearly when you get a bit of seperation from the rabble below. Plus, it is a lot easier to spot those nasty hypocrites out among the masses from the elevated platform.
 
Boers & Bernsy on the Score were taking ol' Bill to task this afternoon for this article. The only thing I didn't like is that they lumped all of Peoria into the mix as if he was speaking for the sentiments of the whole town with this tripe he calls an article.
 
I have personally had it with this situation and the applogists both for Smith and the U of I's athletic department.

I couldnt stomach reading all of the entire Liesse article and then there is this tidbit from Smith's Grandfather.

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/030607/ILL_BCIJJN0E.072.php

Apparently he is now the spokesman for the Smith defense through the media and because grandfather says its so there is no debating what Smith did, only that he deserves remose and from his first article from the Suntimes over the weekend Smith is apparently a heroic figure in all of this.

I am wondering why all of the tries at positive spin for Smith in the media? I am certain his attorney is above debating this case in th media, but it sure seems that is exactly what is happening.

Why cant anyone simply say or write Smith did this, he is respondsible and deserves the punishment that is accordance to the laws he broke?
 
houstontxbrave said:
Apparently he is now the spokesman for the Smith defense through the media and because grandfather says its so there is no debating what Smith did, only that he deserves remose and from his first article from the Suntimes over the weekend Smith is apparently a heroic figure in all of this.
Click to expand...

"Both tears and sweat are salty, but they render a different result. Tears will get you sympathy; sweat will get you change."
- Jesse Jackson
 
romar said:
Boers & Bernsy on the Score were taking ol' Bill to task this afternoon for this article. The only thing I didn't like is that they lumped all of Peoria into the mix as if he was speaking for the sentiments of the whole town with this tripe he calls an article.
Click to expand...

I missed the Score chat...

...but I (embarrassed to admit) caught a couple local yokels (Markley and Luciano ? ) yapping about it on 1470 and they are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS as to the details about this situation.

But hey... they're 'great americans'. :roll:
 
Mac-- there are some very serious inconsistencies in Jamar's grandfather's story. His words conflict severely with one report of what the eyewitness in the parking lot, the woman who called 911, said to the police, as quoted directly from the State's Attorney.

One thing that stands out to me is the line about how Chester Frazier and one other teammate came out and couldn't find the car and then went back inside.

I have a whole lot of questions about this line...


---first...it is totally inconsistent with a report from the very woman in the parking lot who called 911.
She was reportedly interviewed on one of the Champaign TV stations and said that the two players who came back out DID look at the car, but did NOT summon help and simply went back inside.
Also, here are the very words as quoted from State's attorney Julia Reitz:
"Two witnesses saw the damaged vehicle pull into the parking lot and saw a tall man (wearing an Illini sweat suit) exit the vehicle and enter the apartment building. They also saw an unconscious passenger in the vehicle. They then saw the tall man and a second man return, approach the car, and then leave and go back into the building"
It was Carlwell who then regained consciousness and started honking the horn to summon help, which then prompted the onlooking women to call 911.
So the two who came out of the apartments DID approach the car but turned around and went back inside and never came back out...NEVER!

--even if you truly couldn't find the car, would you just go back inside and forget about it if you knew your friend and teammate was lying in a car out there injured or dead?

--if they came outside to look for a car then the MUST HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE that the car was damaged in an accident and that Carlwell was inside....Jamar's grandfather acknowledges that. Then why didn't a single person at the party - reportedly at least 6 or 7 Illini basketball players and additional "women", call the police or 911?
Why did they all just go on with their activities as if nothing happened?
Another quote from the State's Attorney:
"???‚¬?“The witnesses (in the parking lot) called 911. No other 911 calls were made"

--why is everyone doing such a good job of hiding the identity of those underage people drinking at the paty who were informed of the accident and yet did nothing?
Lots of people who also live in the apartments and who are posting on some of the message boards have said the names, but yet the Illinois coaching staff has only acted to keep ONE player from playing, and is even allowing him to practice.
I think these other people who were at the party are guilty of several serious violations of both the law and of team policy and alcohol/drug policy. It appears as though the Illini coaching staff cares more about the upcoming game.... :-o

--lastly, why have so many people tried to act so righteous and trumpet some kind of report that Brian Carlwell's alcohol level was "ZERO"? Why did people perpetuate this false rumor?
If I had said his BAC was 200 then I'd have been asked for the source of the info or for proof, yet the people touting the level was zero, never gave any source or any proof and were allowed to put that all over certain other message boards (but not this one).
Certainly Jamar's grandfather got his info direct from Jamar and if he says Carlwell was drinking and was "blasted" then I suspect he is telling the truth.

--Why are the police not doing more to find out who supplied the alcohol to underage people which led to this near tragic incident?
Jamar's grandfather and at least one other quote I have seen from possibly Jamar himself claim he went out and bought it without being asked for ID.
Isn't that a violation of the law?
Why aren't the police asking where this place was that he illegally was sold alcohol?
If they know where he bought the booze, then aren't the police obligated to cite the vendor?


and is anyone else bothered a bit by this inconsistency?

---"Leroy Smith ...sent his grandson a text message that told him "a big storm was coming"...Jamar Smith, ...returned the text: "OK POPS." ....so he MUST HAVE HAD A CEL PHONE, and doesn't just about every colege student have one with them at pretty much all times?

then later in the story
--"Smith has said he didn't have a cell phone with him at the time of the accident"
but it also says this about Jamar Smith at the time of the accident
"Drunk, concussed and confused"

So did he or did he not have a cel phone?
Or did he just supposedly NOT have it when it is better for his defense to have an excuse for why he didn't call police?
And lots of people don't have cel phones, and haven't for decades, and never used that as a reason to violate the law by not calling police. He still IS obligated to find a phone and call police or ask someone else to do it.
He had to drive right by numerous places that did have a phone to get back to his apartment, and still even once he was at the apartment....what the HE!! stopped him from calling the police from there?


Time line---
---"shortly after 11PM"...Jamar Smith drives Brian Carlwell to campus and strikes a tree. He then drives back to the apartments over a mile south.
---11:41 a woman at the apartments calls 911 and reports an injured man in a damaged car. She also reports seeing the driver of the car go into an apartment, two "tall men" return to the car then went back inside, then no other people from the apartment were mentioned beyond that.
---11:51PM...within 10 minutes, rescue personnel were on the scene.
Have any of you people ever witnessed one of these 911 responses? They involve paramedics, rescue personnel, ambulances, and fire engines all arriving with lights flashing and sirens blaring. And are you going to tell me that nobody at Jamar's party had any clue that this was all going on? Were they all in such a drunken stupor they didn't see anything and didn't hear the sirens? And they all forgot that Jamar had just told them their injured friend was unconscious out there in the car, because they never went back out to help.
---12:10AM...the police report then says it took 15 minutes to get Carlwell out of the wrecked car, so by now it was 12:05 to 12:10PM, and no mention in any report of the basketball players being around anywhere.
---somewhere in this interval Jamar calls one of the assistant coaches, who races out to the apartments, never contacts any authorities, even though he is informed of the accident and of the serious injury to Carlwell. The assistant coach apparently finds Jamar to console him but never contacts the police and doesn't immediately take Jamar for medical.
---1:00AM...the police state they searched for the driver of the vehicle, but that it took until 1AM to locate him, and at that the time they found Jamar, then Wayne McClain drove Jamar to the hospital where he was treated and released.
Some time after 1AM, Bruce Weber arrived at the hospital and reportedly spent the night there waiting to hear reports on Brian Carlwell.

It appears I am not the only one who sees inconsistencies and contradictions.
The news reporters are going to start circling like vultures with all this spin and coverup going on.
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6251

http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2007/02/21/sports/sports002.txt
 
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