NIT & Projected lineup next season

[thefish7]

Villanova last year did fine with 4 gaurds.

How tall were their guards? I think part of our "problem" is that our guards are pretty small too... not necessarily as guards, but play em at 3 and especially 4 and they're very small.

 

[real fan]

Our line-up for next season will be Ruffin,Fears,Crouch, Salley, and hopefully a big Jr. College center;A. Warren, R. Brown,D. Williams will see a lot of time which will give our freshman time to adjust.

 

[BradleyBrave]

Villanova last year did fine with 4 gaurds.

How tall were their guards? I think part of our "problem" is that our guards are pretty small too... not necessarily as guards, but play em at 3 and especially 4 and they're very small.

Our guards will be pretty big next year. Outside of Ruffin at 5'10", you have JC at 6'5" and Fears at 6'4". For the 4th spot, you could have Warren at 6'5", Williams at 6'4", Brown at 6'7", Salley at 6'7", or maybe Egolf at 6'9". If we get the JUCO big I am hearing we may get, I think you can pencil his 6'8" 250 frame in the middle. We will be significantly bigger next year, but without sacrificing much (if any) athleticism.

 

[georgethedog]

Villanova last year did fine with 4 gaurds.

That is the exception, not the rule. How many teams did well without playing 4 guards? PLENTY!

 

[Chico]

I would hope we could start someone who could help us more than Matt Sally. As hard as he tried he just wasn't the big man the Braves needed this year.

 

[bravesonly]

i think salley will be much better suited for the 4 spot rather than center...if we do land a juco big i think he'll be a great compliment at the 4.

 

[amckillip]

I think Ray can do it better than JC, but he is certainly not ideal, then again I am not against a 4 guard lineup.

Are you basketball ______? If the 4 guard lineup was so good why doesn't everyone do it? Ever seen it work with any other team? It will only take you so far IF you have good guards WITH experience like we had this year. But that will get you 4th in the league an a NIT bid. You must have low expectations I guess. :?

Your right Villanova is an exception, and thats what you asked for....

 

[BUBraves2006]

When are we going to get to the point when we don't have to rely so heavily on junior college transfers to help carry the team? I realize that many factors go into this whole thing.

There is usually an adjustment period with these guys. Look at Andews and Salley. They both took quite awhile (5-10 games) to make much of an impact. Others in recent years have had less of an adjustment (Bennett, Wright).

Is it just me or don't you all think that these junior college guys should be generally counted on as second or third options (depending on their respective position)? I really hope that after we can get some experience next year with Egolf, Thompson, etc. This way we can turn to them and not have to HOPE that a scholarship opens up because we have no depth at the position.

It just seems like we're playing the "free agent market" to look for a quick fix a lot, someone who can only help for a bit instead of "developing within." Junior college transfers can be important and I'm not saying there are no use for them. Some of the guys I mentioned were critical to us succeeding the past two seasons. I just hope that Jim Les can keep guessing right with these players because of the small window you have for them on the team.

 

[BradleyBrave]

When are we going to get to the point when we don't have to rely so heavily on junior college transfers to help carry the team? I realize that many factors go into this whole thing.

There is usually an adjustment period with these guys. Look at Andews and Salley. They both took quite awhile (5-10 games) to make much of an impact. Others in recent years have had less of an adjustment (Bennett, Wright).

Is it just me or don't you all think that these junior college guys should be generally counted on as second or third options (depending on their respective position)? I really hope that after we can get some experience next year with Egolf, Thompson, etc. This way we can turn to them and not have to HOPE that a scholarship opens up because we have no depth at the position.

It just seems like we're playing the "free agent market" to look for a quick fix a lot, someone who can only help for a bit instead of "developing within." Junior college transfers can be important and I'm not saying there are no use for them. Some of the guys I mentioned were critical to us succeeding the past two seasons. I just hope that Jim Les can keep guessing right with these players because of the small window you have for them on the team.

I think if you look closely, BU has tried to start trending away from the JUCO player and more towards the 4 year player. This year's class had Andrew Warren. Next year's class has 2 transfers and 3 4-year players. The class of 2008 has Daniel West, who's a 4 year player, and likely at least 1 more 4 year guy. I think we went heavy on the JUCO route initially because of the desire to get back to respectability quickly. Jim did a fantastic job at finding some real diamonds in the rough. But I think the overall goal was to eventually get back to recruiting mostly 4 year kids, and I think we're just about there.

 

[BUBraves2006]

When are we going to get to the point when we don't have to rely so heavily on junior college transfers to help carry the team? I realize that many factors go into this whole thing.

There is usually an adjustment period with these guys. Look at Andews and Salley. They both took quite awhile (5-10 games) to make much of an impact. Others in recent years have had less of an adjustment (Bennett, Wright).

Is it just me or don't you all think that these junior college guys should be generally counted on as second or third options (depending on their respective position)? I really hope that after we can get some experience next year with Egolf, Thompson, etc. This way we can turn to them and not have to HOPE that a scholarship opens up because we have no depth at the position.

It just seems like we're playing the "free agent market" to look for a quick fix a lot, someone who can only help for a bit instead of "developing within." Junior college transfers can be important and I'm not saying there are no use for them. Some of the guys I mentioned were critical to us succeeding the past two seasons. I just hope that Jim Les can keep guessing right with these players because of the small window you have for them on the team.

I think if you look closely, BU has tried to start trending away from the JUCO player and more towards the 4 year player. This year's class had Andrew Warren. Next year's class has 2 transfers and 3 4-year players. The class of 2008 has Daniel West, who's a 4 year player, and likely at least 1 more 4 year guy. I think we went heavy on the JUCO route initially because of the desire to get back to respectability quickly. Jim did a fantastic job at finding some real diamonds in the rough. But I think the overall goal was to eventually get back to recruiting mostly 4 year kids, and I think we're just about there.

Yeah, I'd agree with assessment completely. I do think we are taking the right steps. I think my concern is just for next year, as we don't positively have another Salley/Andrews coming in. Yes, there has been all kinds of speculation about scholarships opening up and for the Braves' sake, I hope one does.

Maybe it is more about wanting an instant impact type of player as soon as he steps on the floor. I think Ruff has been that kind of guy, and his development has been enormous since his first year. But, we also lucked out in a way that he couldn't play his first year so he's a senior in age and a year older in maturity.

I think the combination of how Ray Brown hasn't done much yet after his rather lofty pedigree and how limited Warren's minutes are at times, I just want someone who can simply play immediately and that we'll have for awhile. That's hard to find, but it's just another expectation I have for Jim Les going forward as he continues to establish himself as a good recruiter and game coach.

 

[tornado]

Jim did a fantastic job at finding some real diamonds in the rough.

I agree completely.
Jim Les' job of rebuilding the BU program and logging back to back 20-win seasons, as well as a Sweet 16 finish,
has all been accomplished with very few TOP LEVEL recruits.
Other than Cellus, I don't know of even ONE of BU's incoming players in Jim Les' first three years were even 2-star recruits.
Most were unheralded and not hotly pursued.
(Patrick O'Bryant was a Zero-Star recruit! So were Jeremy Crouch and Will Franklin.)
As I noted elsewhere, Ruffin, Boogie, Zach, POB, Tony Bennett, DA, Jeremy Crouch, Will Franklin, and others all had fine talent and were great D-I players, but all were generally overlooked by other programs.
Most of those guys had few if any other decent D-I offers, but Jim Les knew they could play.

Now we are looking at an unprecedented batch of 3-Star recruits all coming in at one time.
As many as six Rivals 3-Star recruits (Maniscalco, Buycks, DeAaron, Fears, Anthony Thompson, and Ray Brown) will be on the active roster next season, 2007-2008.

Even Xavier Crawford, possibly due at BU in 2008, is another Rivals 3-Star, and both Daniel West and Will Egolf are 2-Star recruits that border on being 3-Star.

PS-- Rashad Austin is also a Rivals 3-Star, and I think we will be hearing something on him soon.

 

[BUBraves2006]

T,

You're one of the gurus of information here. I don't know if it's possible to look back a few years, but what were guys like Matt Shaw, Tatum, Funk, etc. rated? I know this would take a little research but it'd be interesting if there is anything comparable in the conference to this many good recruits coming in at once.

With this many good players coming in, do you see any of them as potential all-freshman team players?

There are many different routes to development as a college player. Two great players, Nate Funk and Anthony Tolliver had almost zero impact in their freshman year and look where they are now. Two other all-conference performers, Blake Ahearn and Jamaal Tatum were both All-freshman team selections four years ago (Ahearn won FOY).

 

[georgethedog]

When are we going to get to the point when we don't have to rely so heavily on junior college transfers to help carry the team? I realize that many factors go into this whole thing.

There is usually an adjustment period with these guys. Look at Andews and Salley. They both took quite awhile (5-10 games) to make much of an impact. Others in recent years have had less of an adjustment (Bennett, Wright).

Is it just me or don't you all think that these junior college guys should be generally counted on as second or third options (depending on their respective position)? I really hope that after we can get some experience next year with Egolf, Thompson, etc. This way we can turn to them and not have to HOPE that a scholarship opens up because we have no depth at the position.

It just seems like we're playing the "free agent market" to look for a quick fix a lot, someone who can only help for a bit instead of "developing within." Junior college transfers can be important and I'm not saying there are no use for them. Some of the guys I mentioned were critical to us succeeding the past two seasons. I just hope that Jim Les can keep guessing right with these players because of the small window you have for them on the team.

We would not even be having this discussion if POB stayed until he graduated.

 

[Chico]

Boy, do I agree with you Georgethedog, when it comes to POB, but, Dick Versace rebuilt the Bradley program by going the Junior College route, nothing wrong with that. If you build it they will come.

 

[tornado]

T,

You're one of the gurus of information here. I don't know if it's possible to look back a few years, but what were guys like Matt Shaw, Tatum, Funk, etc. rated? I know this would take a little research but it'd be interesting if there is anything comparable in the conference to this many good recruits coming in at once.

With this many good players coming in, do you see any of them as potential all-freshman team players?

There are many different routes to development as a college player. Two great players, Nate Funk and Anthony Tolliver had almost zero impact in their freshman year and look where they are now. Two other all-conference performers, Blake Ahearn and Jamaal Tatum were both All-freshman team selections four years ago (Ahearn won FOY).

It's actually easier than you might think, BUB2006

Just go to Rivals and do a search, and they allow you to search ever graduating class back to 2002.

Here are some results from Rivals:
Jamaal Tatum (2003) was a Zero-Star recruit, only a few mid-majors offered him
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=10767

Nate Funk (2002) was a Zero-Star recruit that apparently only Creighton was much interested in
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=10260

Anthony Tolliver (2003) was a GOOD 3-STAR recruit
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=12424

Matt Shaw came from a smaller school and was not that highly regarded, and was a Zero-Star recruit in 2004.
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=22034

Here are some other guys and their Rivals rankings:
For Drake, Chaun Brooks (2003) was 3-Star, Nick Grant (2003) was 2-Star, Klayton Korver was zero-Star.

For Evansville Kyle Anslinger, Matt Webster, and Brad Strickland (all 2003) were all zero-Star. Evansville did have two 3-Star recruits in 2003 & 2004 but they had problems and didn't play.

For Indiana State David Moss (2002)was Zero-Star

For Illinois State Chris Burras (2002) was 3-Star but left ISU and was never very good, Khalif Ford (2004) was 3-Star, Nedu Onyeuku (2004) was 3-Star, and Marcus Arnold (2002) was Zero-Star.
All Of ISU's other recruits, Dilligard, Carlwell, Plank, were Zero-Star.

For Missouri State Blake Ahearn (2002) was 3-Star
Deven Mitchell, Sky Frazier, and Tyler Chaney were all 2003 and were ALL 3-Star...that was a pretty good recruiting class by Barry!

For UNI Ben Jacobson was Zero-Star, John Little was Zero-Star (both 2002), Josten, McKowen, Viet, Stout, and Crawford (all 2003) and Eric Coleman (2003) were all Zero-Star.

For Wichita State Matt Braeuer (2004) was Zero-Star,
Ogirri and Kyle Wilson (2004) were both 3-Star.

For Creighton Johnnie Mathies (2003) was 2-Star, Dane Watts (2004) was Zero-Star

For SIU Tony Young (2002) was Zero-Star, Falker (2003) was Zero-Star, Clemmons and Shaw (2004) were Zero-Star.


http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/prosearch.asp?sport=2&sid=910


Scout has a similar search tool and they do have some rankings different generally giving 1 or 2 stars to anyone who goes D-I, such as Dilligard being 2-Star and Crouch and POB being 2-Star, and Boogie being 1-Star.
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=10&cfg=bb&yr=2004

Just adjust the year and search by school in the advanced search below...try it it's fun!

One interesting thing, tho is that scout DOES NOT even list Nate Funk and Anthony Tolliver in their data bases as if they didn't think much of either one when they were in high school!

 

[Da Coach]

OK, since I spent the time looking this up, I'll post it anyway, but I should have known tornado would beat me to it--

I don't know if it's possible to look back a few years, but what were guys like Matt Shaw, Tatum, Funk, etc. rated? I know this would take a little research but it'd be interesting if there is anything comparable in the conference to this many good recruits coming in at once.

With this many good players coming in, do you see any of them as potential all-freshman team players?

There are many different routes to development as a college player. Two great players, Nate Funk and Anthony Tolliver had almost zero impact in their freshman year and look where they are now. Two other all-conference performers, Blake Ahearn and Jamaal Tatum were both All-freshman team selections four years ago (Ahearn won FOY).

Recruiting is not an exact science, and I believe most college coaches know as much or more about kids and recruiting that these so-called recruiting experts know. But here are some of the answers to your question.

Jamal Tatum- he was not very highly recruited out of high school--
2-stars by Scout-
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=327427
Zero stars by Rivals-
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=10767

Randall Falker- also not very highly recruited--
2-stars by Scout-
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=366061
Zero stars by Rivals-
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=15902

Tony Young- got very little Division I interest--
Not listed in Scout database
Zero-star recruit by Rivals-
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=10008

Matt Shaw- he was a little higher recruit--
3-stars by Scout-
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=447738
Zero stars by Rivals-
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=22034

Nick Porter- recruited out of junior college to Creighton with 3 years of eligibility--
2-star recruit by Scout-
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1235282

Nate Funk- not very highly regarded and highly recruited out of high school-
He was not even listed in the Scout database.
Zero stars by Rivals-
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=10260

Anthony Tolliver-
Not listed in Scout database, either.
Zero-star recruit by Rivals--
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=12424

So all these outstanding MVC players developed into the players they are, and were not so highly regarded players coming out of high school, or JC.