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Soccer: Ohio State and Wake Forest advance to NCAA title game

I watched the entire game, on ESPN2, and there was to say the least...not much sportsmanship seen in this game.
You could hear the players trash talking, pushing, kicking, and there were several very hard and unsportsmanlike fouls, and one really flagrant high kick to the face of the Wake Forest captain, resulting in multiple large cuts and bleeding. The trainers never could get the bleeding under control on Julian Valentin's face, but Wake was able to hold off a furious 10-forward attack by Ohio State to win 2-1.
The tough Wake forward who scored the game winner, Zack Schilawski, looked a lot like Trevor Trimpe!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2007-12-16-3519935574_x.htm

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Wake Forest totally outplayed OSU in the second half. They were more then deserving of winning. Congrats to them on winning the title.
 
The midfielder that got kicked in the head had 3 gruesome cuts on his face. It was a pretty dirty play, however it was totally unintentional. I was real glad to see a good game.
 
Les is More said:
The midfielder that got kicked in the head had 3 gruesome cuts on his face. It was a pretty dirty play, however it was totally unintentional. I was real glad to see a good game.
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It looked pretty intentional to me. Anytime a player goes studs up near aother standing players face, you really have to wonder
 
I have to admit that I do no not know a lot about soccer...but I avidly followed both the Bradley and Wake Forest effort throughout the NCAAs (I have ties to both schools). I was a bit shocked at the very physical nature of some of the plays (and even thought it was dirty at times) during the Championship game. I mean, did you see how bloody Valentin's face was? I think that anyone that draws that level of blood from an opponent should be red carded. There was also a very violent hit on Schilawksi that didn't even get called. And I also saw another foul where it appeared that a Wake Forest player got kicked in the face and there was no yellow card. Then I don't understand why Wake Forest played one man down when Valentin was getting medical treatment (don't they have substitutions).

So, while I continue to experience befuddlement anytime I watch soccer...I must also admit that the only reason I watched the game (rather than just reading about it), was because I was very inspired by the resilience the Bradley soccer team showed this season. After each of their amazing victories, I was cheering, laughing and crying at the same time. If it weren't for the Bradley team, soccer wouldn't even be on my radar other than reading about who won or lost in the paper the next day.

It's been a good tournament and Bradley created a soccer fan out of me!
 
JBinPeoria said:
Then I don't understand why Wake Forest played one man down when Valentin was getting medical treatment (don't they have substitutions).
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As for this, yes they do have substitutions. The reason they did not make an immediate substitution is because to make a sub in soccer there has to be a sufficient stoppage in play. These stoppages include mainly goal kicks and penalties with cards awarded. Where as a player who has been injured may reenter the field of play as soon as there is any type of stoppage of play and they are deemed fit to reenter by the 4th ref who sits on the sideline. So the main problem is that if you make a substitution, you are looking at sufficiently more time for a player to reenter, and in this case you would want your captain to re enter as soon as possible with the onslaught Ohio State was trying to enforce with 7 minutes to play. Another reason it took so long was because Valentin was continually telling the coaches and the trainer to hurry and patch him up so he could get back in, so the coach was probably expecting a quick reentry. I hoped this helped anyway, it makes sense to me, but I played the sport for a very long time and still follow it as much as i can.

Now for my own personal take on the game. Im making such a late entry on it because I missed the second half when it was played live because I had to go to a birthday party for a family friend so I just watched the replay. Incredible game played by both sides. I honestly think whoever got the side with the wind in the second half was going to win. The wind was supposedly making gusts of 30-40+ mph and you could tell that some clearance kicks on the side facing the wind was being substantially held up. It was a good physical game the whole way until about the last 20 minutes. However, the only reason it got that bad was because the refs were doing a mixture of making terrible calls early or not calling fouls that needed to be called. I'm sure most of the players felt they could get away with about anything if they just tried. I caught at LEAST 10-15 tackles that were ruled fouls that were as clean as could be and then the ref wasn't calling some really bad pushing plays. Ohio State's first goal was just one hell of a scrummage play that ended up on an Ohio State foot about 7 yards from the goal which resulted in an easy touch into the net. Both of Wake's goals ended up being controversial. The first goal was pretty **************** close to crossing the touch line; however, the ref was right there and had a bad angle despite being right on top of it. The second goal was a supposed hand ball on Tracy but it was merely a ball popping up off a OSU challenge and hitting Tracy's elbow which is not a hand ball because it was clearly not intentional. And lastly, that OSU player who caused the injury to Valentin is lucky he was not awarded a red card. Anytime you go into a challenge with your cleats exposed you can expect some sort of card. That is considered a very dangerous play (if you dont believe me, ask Valentin how his face feels) and will result in some sort of card. Typically, when blood is drawn it will result in red regardless of the intent, however, the ref would have never heard the end of it if he gave a red with that much time left in that intense of a game.

All in all it was a hard fought game by both sides, I dont know how better officiating would have changed the game but thats how the ball bounces.
 
Les is More said:
The midfielder that got kicked in the head had 3 gruesome cuts on his face. It was a pretty dirty play, however it was totally unintentional. I was real glad to see a good game.
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I might disagree...flying with your cleats at face level into traffic is hardly "unintentional", which is why it gets penalized.
Had the official actually seen the damage done to the Wake player's face, he might well have assessed a red card.
Up 'til that point in the game I was rooting for Ohio State, as I wanted to say at least BU lost to the ultimate national champion.
When that foul occurred, then the trash talking and the "F"-word that was easily caught on air from the Ohio State goalie, I decided I would rather see Wake win....and a few minutes later, I got my wish.
 
It was unintentional. There is no reason for him to kick the defender in the face. IMO esponoza was doing anything at will to get the ball in being down by a goal. He is not a dirty player and clearly was a game-changing player that OSU needed on teh field at all times. I completely disagree that his high kick was intentional.

With the amount of blood that took place, I understand a red card being handed out, however with the magnitude of the game and the timing, a yellow card was sufficient.
 
"There is no reason..." could otherwise be described as....

"there really was no reason to inhibit the aggressive play, as the ref hadn't been calling it anyway"
The rough play had been escalating all game and espinoza was going with the flow.....
I think Espinoza was intentionally going HARD after the ball and used little or no discretion since he figured he'd get away with it or at the very least get only a yellow card.
The high kick in traffic is called as a dangerous play at every level of soccer from 3rd grade on up, and when a player goes for the ball as Espinoza did, I would call it intentional, as certainly it was not accidental that his cleats were at face level.
He showed no regard for the other players' safety, and you have to admit, the ball wasn't even in a scoring position, so why was he doing it?

In case you haven't seen the play....view photo #3 in this "Slide Show"
http://extras.journalnow.com/photogallery/2007/wfsoc_champs/slideshow.html

and you'll see that the two Wake players are going for a high ball with their heads, and Espinoza (in red) is going into the mix with his cleats at face level.
The ball, just coincidentally is nowhere in sight, and one cannot deny where Espinoza's eyes are directed....
He is looking precisely at Valentin's face which he has just macerated with his cleats, so I cannot be convinced Espinoza didn't know and intend what had just happened.
 
I can see there's room for difference, but if you are going to try to play a ball in the air, you wouldn't go after it with your foot in the position clearly shown in that picture.
Espinoza is leading with his cleats and even if he kicks that ball he would contact it with the bottom of his spikes first....not the way one typically would play a ball.
 
the point i was trying to make was that, instinct says do anything to get that ball. i played soccer for many years and have made that same play dozens of times. i think it was unlucky that the WF player met the cleat of espanoza.

it was a case of the player going for a header and a player trying to kick it. there is no way that espanoza could have not had his cleat pointing that way.

it was a bad looking play, but
 
Did anyone catch the ball going out of bounds on the 1st score by WF? The ref was right there and didn't call anything....later the camera team showed the slow mo and showed the entire ball out of bounds?
 
ya i caught that, but you realize that ref was directly parallel with that ball, he couldnt have made an accurate call to save his soul. either way he was gonna catch hell...one job I will never envy is a touch line referee in soccer...making offsides calls and trying to make those calls is by far the more unenviable task in all of sports.
 
for that exact reason is why i still like having humans (refs, umpires, linesman,etc.) calling the game. I hope with all this new technology such as replay, that the human eye is not taken out...
 
Playing soccer for years, captain of my HS team. Thats not intentional. It's a dangerous play but definition. But because it's called a dangerous play does not make it intentional. Fyrebird and crew are right, any soccer player has made that same play countless times. This time it had unfortunate consequences. Despite the damage thats done, it also does not justify a red card. Action determines a card, not outcome, thats a typical foul.
 
Big Mike said:
Did anyone catch the ball going out of bounds on the 1st score by WF? The ref was right there and didn't call anything....later the camera team showed the slow mo and showed the entire ball out of bounds?
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This is sometimes a tough judgement play, since the rule says that if any part of the ball is still over any part of the line, then it is still in play.

We who are used to basketball might sense that it's out of bounds if the ball is touching the grass outside the line.
But since the ball is round, even if it is on the grass outsuide the line, the edge of the ball may still be over the white line, thus still in play.
One of the refs is stationed on the sideline for the purpose of getting the call correct, but again it is a judgement call.

There are even times that a ball is kicked while it is inbounds, and it lands inbounds, but while it is in the air, it bends out of bounds and curves back in.
This play is still out of bounds, and the sideline ref has to use his judgement to make the call while the ball is flying through the air, as to whether the entire ball is outside the "outside plane if the sideline".
 
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