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3 starters out

Da Coach

Da Coach

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Staff member
No doubt most Bradley fans had high expectations for this season. Yet even before anyone was injured, Bradley was picked 5th in the MVC.
But I think the coaches and players have done an incredible job with the setbacks they have been dealt. Top returning scorer Andrew Warren hasn't played a minute, and Will Egolf, who had won the starting center job, was injured early in the season. Now another starter, Dodie Dunson, is injured. There is still no word on whether he will be able to play in St. Louis, but even if he does, his play will be affected. I can think of 4, 5, maybe 6 of the losses where these guys would have made a huge difference, and might have meant wins. Too bad the team never had the chance to compete this season at full strength.

Every team has injuries, but can anyone recall if any team has played in the postseason tournament with 3 key starters out with injuries?

Congratulations to the coaches and players for their accomplishments this season!
 
I agree. If we look at the last 4 years, JL is 82-54. Three more this season and that will be 4 20-win seasons in a row. And BU will be in the post-season again, 4 years straight, while 230 D-I teams stay home.

We're not where we want to be. But look where we are. It is unimaginable that BU will not play in the post-season for as many years out as can be counted. Over the past 4 years, JL's teams have shown that they'll get up off the mat. With Wilkins, Prosser, Milos, Harris on the way, Warren with 2 more years, Sammy just a soph and this group of frosh, wow.

It's entirely possible that we'll take the next step soon . . . from perennial post-season qualifier to perennial NCAA hopefuls.

And if we pull off 3 in St Louis, JL is coach of the century.
 
WE started 3 games- so hard to call him a lost starter with much merit IMO- Same with Dodie....

QUit making excuses and what-ifs and just say that BU achieved what was expected in the preseason polls.... I get tire of all of this- if only we had AW and if only WE hadn't hurt his knee... blah blah blah
 
I sorta get the statement about Egolf... But Dodie? He started 19 games and was 3rd on the team with 27.9 minutes per game. Even with the games he didn't start, 27.9 mpg is the play of a starter. Losing a guy like that is going to have an obvious effect on Bradley's play.
 
I get tired of the 'if' stuff, I really do. However, I think it noteworthy to say that this team has overcome the loss of 2 starters to be one of only 4 teams with a winning league record and to garner a top 4 seed in the MVC Tournament. Sure, 'if' we didn't have injuries maybe we could have contended for a title, but it is what it is and that can't be changed. We played with the hand we were dealt, and I think we have gotten the most out of our guys this year. I think one could argue that this was JL's best year as a coach.
 
BradleyBrave said:
I get tired of the 'if' stuff, I really do. However, I think it noteworthy to say that this team has overcome the loss of 2 starters to be one of only 4 teams with a winning league record and to garner a top 4 seed in the MVC Tournament. Sure, 'if' we didn't have injuries maybe we could have contended for a title, but it is what it is and that can't be changed. We played with the hand we were dealt, and I think we have gotten the most out of our guys this year. I think one could argue that this was JL's best year as a coach.
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Very well said!
 
Conference games only:

______________Min/Game____Games Started___
Maniscalco______34.1___________15_________
Wilson__________31.1___________18_________
McCain__________27.7___________18_________
Dunson__________25.2___________10_________
Roberts_________24.7____________8_________
Singh___________19.7____________0_________
Collins_________18.4___________18_________
Norris__________10.8____________3_________
Brown___________10.5____________0_________
 
I think JL did a good job with what he had to work with although the year after year middle pack stuff is getting old.
 
I agree with what is said- but Dodie has only missed one game- and to my knowledge- nothing has been said about him missing in StL....
 
shaunguth said:
Conference games only:

______________Min/Game____Games Started___
Maniscalco______34.1___________15_________
Wilson__________31.1___________18_________
McCain__________27.7___________18_________
Dunson__________25.2___________10_________
Roberts_________24.7____________8_________
Singh___________19.7____________0_________
Collins_________18.4___________18_________
Norris__________10.8____________3_________
Brown___________10.5____________0_________
Click to expand...


Didn't Taylor Brown start instead of Theron at the Loyola game? Something about the missed bus thing?
 
Da Coach said:
I can think of 4, 5, maybe 6 of the losses where these guys would have made a huge difference, and might have meant wins. Too bad the team never had the chance to compete this season at full strength.

Every team has injuries, but can anyone recall if any team has played in the postseason tournament with 3 key starters out with injuries?

Congratulations to the coaches and players for their accomplishments this season!
Click to expand...

I understand the injury thing. I really do. This team would probably be better with Andrew Warren. With Egolf? I don't know. Again, saying he "won the center job" seems a bit of a reach. The guy has started three college games in his career. Honestly, we haven't seen enough of him as a player to have any idea if he would have been better than Collins/Singh on a regular basis. To claim otherwise would be a real stretch.

Dunson has missed one game. He didn't play because the seeding was already decided. Acting like he has been gone all season is another stretch.

I do have a question for Bradley fans. Let me start by saying I think Andrew Warren is a nice player who would have helped BU this season. However, lets try and put some factual information into this.

A healthy Warren plays probably 32 minutes a game. Whose 32 minutes does he get? AW is a 2/3 guard. You have Sam M. playing a ton at the off guard and scoring 12 ppg in the league. You have Dodie Dunson playing about 26-27 minutes a game and scoring 11 ppg in the league. Then you have Chris Roberts playing 20-25 minutes a game and scoring 8 ppg in the league. At the point McCains plays about 30 mpg.

Now, I guess with Warren then Darian Norris wouldn't have played. But would the production you got from Warren be more than what you got from Sam M., Dunson, and Roberts? The 2/3 position is actually the one position Bradley has a lot of depth.

You just cant inject Andrew Warren and his 32 minutes and 14 ppg and say you would have been that much better. What players wouldn't have played if AW had?
 
leebiddlecome said:
I understand the injury thing. I really do. This team would probably be better with Andrew Warren. With Egolf? I don't know. Again, saying he "won the center job" seems a bit of a reach. The guy has started three college games in his career. Honestly, we haven't seen enough of him as a player to have any idea if he would have been better than Collins/Singh on a regular basis. To claim otherwise would be a real stretch.

Dunson has missed one game. He didn't play because the seeding was already decided. Acting like he has been gone all season is another stretch.

I do have a question for Bradley fans. Let me start by saying I think Andrew Warren is a nice player who would have helped BU this season. However, lets try and put some factual information into this.

A healthy Warren plays probably 32 minutes a game. Whose 32 minutes does he get? AW is a 2/3 guard. You have Sam M. playing a ton at the off guard and scoring 12 ppg in the league. You have Dodie Dunson playing about 26-27 minutes a game and scoring 11 ppg in the league. Then you have Chris Roberts playing 20-25 minutes a game and scoring 8 ppg in the league. At the point McCains plays about 30 mpg.

Now, I guess with Warren then Darian Norris wouldn't have played. But would the production you got from Warren be more than what you got from Sam M., Dunson, and Roberts? The 2/3 position is actually the one position Bradley has a lot of depth.

You just cant inject Andrew Warren and his 32 minutes and 14 ppg and say you would have been that much better. What players wouldn't have played if AW had?
Click to expand...


You are twisting what I said, then criticizing me, for what you erroneously think I said.

I never said anything more than that Will Egolf won the starting 5 position, which he did. And he is out.

Dodie is also out, because of injury. I don't see where I or anyone is "acting like he was gone all season". We don't know if he'll be back, but it would be foolish to think he will be able to return and play at 100%.

Andrew has been out the entire year. To try to minimize what that might have meant is also foolish. Of course other players filled in, but having your best 3-point shooter on the team, when that has been Bradley's weakest facet would have made a huge difference, IMO. I think most people would agree with that.
 
Da Coach said:
You are twisting what I said, then criticizing me, for what you erroneously think I said.

I never said anything more than that Will Egolf won the starting 5 position, which he did. And he is out.

Dodie is also out, because of injury. I don't see where I or anyone is "acting like he was gone all season". We don't know if he'll be back, but it would be foolish to think he will be able to return and play at 100%.

Andrew has been out the entire year. To try to minimize what that might have meant is also foolish. Of course other players filled in, but having your best 3-point shooter on the team, when that has been Bradley's weakest facet would have made a huge difference, IMO. I think most people would agree with that.
Click to expand...

You just told it like it was Coach. That's the wrong thing to do now days.
 
leebiddlecome said:
I do have a question for Bradley fans. Let me start by saying I think Andrew Warren is a nice player who would have helped BU this season. However, lets try and put some factual information into this.

A healthy Warren plays probably 32 minutes a game. Whose 32 minutes does he get? AW is a 2/3 guard. You have Sam M. playing a ton at the off guard and scoring 12 ppg in the league. You have Dodie Dunson playing about 26-27 minutes a game and scoring 11 ppg in the league. Then you have Chris Roberts playing 20-25 minutes a game and scoring 8 ppg in the league. At the point McCains plays about 30 mpg.

Now, I guess with Warren then Darian Norris wouldn't have played. But would the production you got from Warren be more than what you got from Sam M., Dunson, and Roberts? The 2/3 position is actually the one position Bradley has a lot of depth.

You just cant inject Andrew Warren and his 32 minutes and 14 ppg and say you would have been that much better. What players wouldn't have played if AW had?
Click to expand...

That is a good question and a very valid point. If AW is healthy, I think there's a ripple effect on the backcourt that positively affects everyone. First, I don't think you see Darian Norris at all - I'm not saying Darian playing is a bad thing, I just don't think there would have been a place for him. I also think you see less McCain, because Sam probably takes on more of the PG duties. I think you see less minutes for Sam because McCain would offer some solid backup time. This may have kept Sam a little fresher, and maybe allowed him to shoot the ball better with stronger legs. Dunson and Roberts I think stay the same, and I think you would see a lot of sets of Sam, AW, Dodie and Sam, AW, CR. The biggest beneficiary I think would have been Sammy, as he wouldn't have had to shoulder such a large scoring load, and would not have drawn as much defensive attention.

I think you also need to look at how BU lost some games and look at a lot of the game-changing scenarios where we didn't have that 'go to' scorer when we needed a shot or a bucket. Obviously AW wouldn't have come through 'every' time, but I think BU would have had far fewer of those 5-10 minute scoring lulls (like what did us in at UNI) with a bonafide scorer like AW on the court.
 
Da Coach said:
To try to minimize what that might have meant is also foolish. Of course other players filled in, but having your best 3-point shooter on the team, when that has been Bradley's weakest facet would have made a huge difference, IMO. I think most people would agree with that.
Click to expand...

I never once criticized you. I just disagree that losing Will Egolf was the catastrophe that some think it was.

I just asked you to quantify not having Andrew Warren in the lineup. I agree Andrew would have helped in some situations. No doubt. But when he plays then Sam M, Dodie, and Roberts weren't.

Can you quantify for me what Andrew would have produced and who wouldn't have played had he been in there?
 
BradleyBrave said:
That is a good question and a very valid point. If AW is healthy, I think there's a ripple effect on the backcourt that positively affects everyone. First, I don't think you see Darian Norris at all - I'm not saying Darian playing is a bad thing, I just don't think there would have been a place for him. I also think you see less McCain, because Sam probably takes on more of the PG duties. I think you see less minutes for Sam because McCain would offer some solid backup time. This may have kept Sam a little fresher, and maybe allowed him to shoot the ball better with stronger legs. Dunson and Roberts I think stay the same, and I think you would see a lot of sets of Sam, AW, Dodie and Sam, AW, CR. The biggest beneficiary I think would have been Sammy, as he wouldn't have had to shoulder such a large scoring load, and would not have drawn as much defensive attention.

I think you also need to look at how BU lost some games and look at a lot of the game-changing scenarios where we didn't have that 'go to' scorer when we needed a shot or a bucket. Obviously AW wouldn't have come through 'every' time, but I think BU would have had far fewer of those 5-10 minute scoring lulls (like what did us in at UNI) with a bonafide scorer like AW on the court.
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Good point. Im not at all saying BU wouldn't have been better with Warren. They would have. No dout. Im just not sure how much.

Did BU lose a few games they would have won with Andrew? For sure. But Chris Roberts and Dodie Dunson won us a few games that may not have happened if they weren't playing as many minutes. It's a tough call.

I agree with you on Norris. He doesnt get minutes with AW--and I like Darian as a shooter.
 
I've never really understood the whole "starter" thing. Technically, we'll have seven starters returning next season! I think it makes much more sense to look at minutes played rather than labeling someone a starter, which tends to get a little blurry when you have nine different starting lineups throughout the season.
 
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