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Bad News in Sycamore Land
- Thread starter SycamoreFanatic
- Start date
PTownHawkeye
New member
Terrible timing...too late for a redshirt, too early to really help the team make an impact in the Valley this year.
tornado
New member
wow- what a bad break....
now in retrospect, that special ruling by NCAA to allow Kelly immediate eligibility this season
turns out to have been a very bad break as well..
In a really bizarre irony what looked to be a tremendous stroke of GOOD fortune
now turns out to have been a real curse!
Had the NCAA simply stuck to its usual policy, then Jake likely would have had to wait out
and not play this year - a year that Indiana State isn't likely going to be making much noise anyway...
and he probably wouldn't have hurt his knee, would have been redshirted this year
then been back next season with TWO more years of eligibility left.
Instead - he loses a year of eligibility, is out with a terrible injury and a tough road to recovery,
and hasn't had much of a chance to do a thing this year - and now when he returns next year he has only one year left!
now in retrospect, that special ruling by NCAA to allow Kelly immediate eligibility this season
turns out to have been a very bad break as well..
In a really bizarre irony what looked to be a tremendous stroke of GOOD fortune
now turns out to have been a real curse!
Had the NCAA simply stuck to its usual policy, then Jake likely would have had to wait out
and not play this year - a year that Indiana State isn't likely going to be making much noise anyway...
and he probably wouldn't have hurt his knee, would have been redshirted this year
then been back next season with TWO more years of eligibility left.
Instead - he loses a year of eligibility, is out with a terrible injury and a tough road to recovery,
and hasn't had much of a chance to do a thing this year - and now when he returns next year he has only one year left!
Braves4Life
New member
I really hate to hear this.
I was hoping this kid could make ISU competitive and bring some positive press to the Valley.Might he be a candidate for the "Singh rule"
and be granted an extra year of eligibility?
tornado
New member
The NCAA ALLOWS one extra year for free...so he has FIVE years to complete his 4 seasons of eligibility.
But Sam Singh had TWO seasons in which he legitimately qualified for a true medical waiver (medical redshirt) and played fewer than 20% of the team's games.
Unfortunately Kelly hasn't even had ONE such year, so it sure isn't likely they are going to give him two more years to play!
But Sam Singh had TWO seasons in which he legitimately qualified for a true medical waiver (medical redshirt) and played fewer than 20% of the team's games.
Unfortunately Kelly hasn't even had ONE such year, so it sure isn't likely they are going to give him two more years to play!
SycamoreFanatic
New member
Don't be too quick to judgement..........................technicalities at work!
http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_story_364165104.html
http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_story_364165104.html
Don't be too quick to judgement..........................technicalities at work!
http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_story_364165104.html
I was unaware postseason games count toward a team's schedule when it comes to the 30% rule for medical redshirts.
I read that article, and the writers logic is so convoluted, it's hard to follow. He thinks the NCAA might consider the 4 preseason NIT games that Kelly played in as 1 game for the purposes of counting the games he's played? That's not the way the NCAA counts games. He played in all 4 of those games, and in 12 total.
I feel sorry for him, but that is way too many games to qualify for a medical redshirt, unless the NCAA issues a waiver, which isn't considered until he uses up all his eligibility
I feel sorry for him, but that is way too many games to qualify for a medical redshirt, unless the NCAA issues a waiver, which isn't considered until he uses up all his eligibility
tornado
New member
Ha-- the counting of four tournament games as single scheduling date is an allowance the NCAA makes only for scheduling purposes...
The NCAA Medical Hardship rule specifically addresses this exact issue and defines that those "exempt" games ARE counted each as a full game EACH!
Plus, of all the ridiculous hypocrisy - they want to count the four NIT games as only ONE game as far as games played..but then they want to count them as FOUR separate games when it comes to games scheduled!!!
if those four games counted only as ONE in every respect, then of course things start to really get silly...
then Jake's 108 points scored so far this season, weren't really scored in 12 games (giving an average of 9.0 ppg), they were then scored in only 9 games, causing his scoring average to really be 12.0 ppg!
Nope - the NCAA counts games played as games played...and Jake's 12 games played is already 40% of his team's scheduled games.
the rules are clear and precisely defined...
although - having said that, the NCAA does sometimes give kids a break and allow redshirts where otherwise not fitting all the rules.
One such example - somewhat similar to Jake's - is Missouri State's Spencer Laurie.
The NCAA gave this guy an extra redshirt year - actually 6 years to finish five seasons of athletic eligibility, when he didn't fit the rules at all...
The rules require a season be lost due to reasons beyond the athlete's control - such as season ending injury, termination of a program, etc..
Laurie lost one of his years simply to the choice of transferring from one school to another.
Plus, at the time Laurie lost a season to injury - the rule was no more than 20% of his team's scheduled games -- but Laurie had already played in 7 games - more than the allowable 20%.
So on TWO separate counts, Laurie did not fit the NCAA's criteria, yet they still granted him an extra year - a 6th year to finish out his 4 years of eligibility.
http://www.missouristatebears.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13800&ATCLID=706962
Here are the current rules for medical redshirt
(I have highlighed in red the main requirements)
The main requirements, in short, are-
1) injury must be incapacitating, meaning season ending, player does not return from the injury
2) must occur before the midpoint of the season, player cannot play in 2nd half of season
3) player cannot have played in more than 30% of scheduled contests and "exempt games" ARE included
"14.2.4 Hardship Waiver. A student-athlete may be granted an additional year of competition by the conference
or the Academics/Eligibility/Compliance Cabinet for reasons of “hardship.” Hardship is defined as an
incapacity resulting from an injury or illness that has occurred under all of the following conditions: (Revised:
8/8/02)
(a) The incapacitating injury or illness occurs in one of the four seasons of intercollegiate competition at any two year
or four-year collegiate institutions or occurs after the first day of classes in the student-athlete’s senior year
in high school; (Revised: 1/10/92 effective 8/1/92, 11/01/01, 8/8/02)
(b) The injury or illness occurs prior to the completion of the first half of the playing season that concludes with
the NCAA championship in that sport (measured by the number of scheduled contests or dates of competition
not exceeding the maximum limitations in each sport as set forth in Bylaw 17 as set prior to the first
scheduled contest or date of competition of the designated official NCAA championship playing season in
the applicable sport or the number of completed contests or dates of competition) and results in incapacity
to compete for the remainder of that playing season; and (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective
8/1/01, 4/3/02)
(c) The injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates
of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the
institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport. Only scheduled or
completed competition (including exempted events but excluding scrimmages and exhibition contests identified
as such in the legislation) against outside participants during the playing season that concludes with the
NCAA championship, or, if so designated, during the official NCAA championship playing season in that
sport (e.g., spring baseball, fall soccer), shall be countable under this limitation in calculating both the number
of contests or dates of competition in which the student-athlete has participated and the number of scheduled
or completed contests or dates of competition during that season in the sport. (Revised: 1/10/92, 1/14/97
effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 3/10/04, 5/11/05, 8/4/05, 4/26/07 applicable to student-athletes who
initially enrolled full time in a collegiate institution on or after August 1, 2003)
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/stan/genrel/auto_pdf/2007-08_d1_manual.pdf
(page 137, Rule # 14.2.4 "Hardship Waiver")
so it's pretty clear Jake has already played too many games to fit the criteria in the rules...
The NCAA Medical Hardship rule specifically addresses this exact issue and defines that those "exempt" games ARE counted each as a full game EACH!
Plus, of all the ridiculous hypocrisy - they want to count the four NIT games as only ONE game as far as games played..but then they want to count them as FOUR separate games when it comes to games scheduled!!!
if those four games counted only as ONE in every respect, then of course things start to really get silly...
then Jake's 108 points scored so far this season, weren't really scored in 12 games (giving an average of 9.0 ppg), they were then scored in only 9 games, causing his scoring average to really be 12.0 ppg!
Nope - the NCAA counts games played as games played...and Jake's 12 games played is already 40% of his team's scheduled games.
the rules are clear and precisely defined...
although - having said that, the NCAA does sometimes give kids a break and allow redshirts where otherwise not fitting all the rules.
One such example - somewhat similar to Jake's - is Missouri State's Spencer Laurie.
The NCAA gave this guy an extra redshirt year - actually 6 years to finish five seasons of athletic eligibility, when he didn't fit the rules at all...
The rules require a season be lost due to reasons beyond the athlete's control - such as season ending injury, termination of a program, etc..
Laurie lost one of his years simply to the choice of transferring from one school to another.
Plus, at the time Laurie lost a season to injury - the rule was no more than 20% of his team's scheduled games -- but Laurie had already played in 7 games - more than the allowable 20%.
So on TWO separate counts, Laurie did not fit the NCAA's criteria, yet they still granted him an extra year - a 6th year to finish out his 4 years of eligibility.
http://www.missouristatebears.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13800&ATCLID=706962
Here are the current rules for medical redshirt
(I have highlighed in red the main requirements)
The main requirements, in short, are-
1) injury must be incapacitating, meaning season ending, player does not return from the injury
2) must occur before the midpoint of the season, player cannot play in 2nd half of season
3) player cannot have played in more than 30% of scheduled contests and "exempt games" ARE included
"14.2.4 Hardship Waiver. A student-athlete may be granted an additional year of competition by the conference
or the Academics/Eligibility/Compliance Cabinet for reasons of “hardship.” Hardship is defined as an
incapacity resulting from an injury or illness that has occurred under all of the following conditions: (Revised:
8/8/02)
(a) The incapacitating injury or illness occurs in one of the four seasons of intercollegiate competition at any two year
or four-year collegiate institutions or occurs after the first day of classes in the student-athlete’s senior year
in high school; (Revised: 1/10/92 effective 8/1/92, 11/01/01, 8/8/02)
(b) The injury or illness occurs prior to the completion of the first half of the playing season that concludes with
the NCAA championship in that sport (measured by the number of scheduled contests or dates of competition
not exceeding the maximum limitations in each sport as set forth in Bylaw 17 as set prior to the first
scheduled contest or date of competition of the designated official NCAA championship playing season in
the applicable sport or the number of completed contests or dates of competition) and results in incapacity
to compete for the remainder of that playing season; and (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective
8/1/01, 4/3/02)
(c) The injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates
of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the
institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport. Only scheduled or
completed competition (including exempted events but excluding scrimmages and exhibition contests identified
as such in the legislation) against outside participants during the playing season that concludes with the
NCAA championship, or, if so designated, during the official NCAA championship playing season in that
sport (e.g., spring baseball, fall soccer), shall be countable under this limitation in calculating both the number
of contests or dates of competition in which the student-athlete has participated and the number of scheduled
or completed contests or dates of competition during that season in the sport. (Revised: 1/10/92, 1/14/97
effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 3/10/04, 5/11/05, 8/4/05, 4/26/07 applicable to student-athletes who
initially enrolled full time in a collegiate institution on or after August 1, 2003)
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/stan/genrel/auto_pdf/2007-08_d1_manual.pdf
(page 137, Rule # 14.2.4 "Hardship Waiver")
so it's pretty clear Jake has already played too many games to fit the criteria in the rules...
sycamorefan
New member
I appreciate the condolences but I love how half of Bradley fans are like wow that sucks....and the other half are like well....they suck anyway....who cares lol.....Sycamores just beat MVC perennial contender Creighton 70 64 so we cant be that bad:biggrin:
sycamorefan
New member
My bad....
My bad....
I meant Valley....not bradley....unfortunately the years of abuse my brain took from football and fighting for some reason I typed bradley....nahhh you guys are cool....and it really does blow for a kid who was really playing well for us.....
My bad....
I meant Valley....not bradley....unfortunately the years of abuse my brain took from football and fighting for some reason I typed bradley....nahhh you guys are cool....and it really does blow for a kid who was really playing well for us.....
Braves4Life
New member
Jake Kelly back to Iowa
Jake Kelly back to Iowa
There are some strange rumors being reported on the HawkeyeNation.com. They are saying that Jake Kelly misses Iowa, plans to transfer back, and will be eligible to start the second semester of next season. He must make his decison no later than today. Wierd.......
http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/basketball/3260-jake-kelly-considers-iowa-return.html
Jake Kelly back to Iowa
There are some strange rumors being reported on the HawkeyeNation.com. They are saying that Jake Kelly misses Iowa, plans to transfer back, and will be eligible to start the second semester of next season. He must make his decison no later than today. Wierd.......
http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/basketball/3260-jake-kelly-considers-iowa-return.html
tornado
New member
that is virtually impossible....
Even if he left NOW and went to Iowa then played mid-season next year, remember - he really has only 1/2 season left...
this year at Indiana State will count as his 3rd year of play, so if he sits out a year, he becomes eligible mid-season next year and that's all he has...
In theory, he can stay at Indiana State 'til June, then go back to Iowa, sit out all of 2010-2011 and play the entire 201102012 season...
Even if he left NOW and went to Iowa then played mid-season next year, remember - he really has only 1/2 season left...
this year at Indiana State will count as his 3rd year of play, so if he sits out a year, he becomes eligible mid-season next year and that's all he has...
In theory, he can stay at Indiana State 'til June, then go back to Iowa, sit out all of 2010-2011 and play the entire 201102012 season...
PTownHawkeye
New member
Having not heard about this before today, it sounds preposterous. However, I can verify that Jon Miller is a "where there is smoke, there is fire" type of person. He is usually dead-on when it comes to breaking stories.
Iowa would welcome Jake back with open arms.
