Best Recruits in Valley?

[matt714gd]

Alright here is a solid topic. Valleytalk.net has a thread up right now discussing who the top recruits are in the Missouri Valley. None of the Bradley recruits were mentioned much at all. However, there was one comment stated on how Creighton has received 2 four star recruits ....

"How many 4 star recruits in the Valley right now? Answer: Two, P'Allen Stinnett of Creighton and Kenny Lawon of Creighton.

How many RIvals Top 150 in the Valley right now:

Ogirri of WSU
Stinnett of CU
Miles of CU
Millard of CU
Walker of CU

May be a couple others.

{Lawson was 4 star at Scout, #21 center in the nation}."

This worries me. I thought Bradley got some very solid players out of both Juco and high school. What do you all think? Do we have the best recruits in the valley compared not only to Creighton but ALSO all the other teams? I know we have plenty of 3 stars, but no 4 stars. Let me know what you guys think...

 

[BradleyBrave]

Re: Best Recruits in Valley?

Alright here is a solid topic. Valleytalk.net has a thread up right now discussing who the top recruits are in the Missouri Valley. None of the Bradley recruits were mentioned much at all. However, there was one comment stated on how Creighton has received 2 four star recruits ....

"How many 4 star recruits in the Valley right now? Answer: Two, P'Allen Stinnett of Creighton and Kenny Lawon of Creighton.

How many RIvals Top 150 in the Valley right now:

Ogirri of WSU
Stinnett of CU
Miles of CU
Millard of CU
Walker of CU

May be a couple others.

{Lawson was 4 star at Scout, #21 center in the nation}."

This worries me. I thought Bradley got some very solid players out of both Juco and high school. What do you all think? Do we have the best recruits in the valley compared not only to Creighton but ALSO all the other teams? I know we have plenty of 3 stars, but no 4 stars. Let me know what you guys think...

It just shows that BU isn't the only school that's bringing in top talent. I know we like to think that we dominate the recruiting scene, but the other strong programs in the league are doing just as well. There's no doubt we've done well, and also been able to find diamonds in the rough (especially from the JUCO ranks), but so has the rest of the MVC. It's one of the things that's taking this league into the upper echelon of college basketball. Let's be happy we're a part of it.

 

[Da Coach]

Here is an article about Creighton's recruiting class of 5 star players last year. 2 redshirted, 2 have left Creighton, and the other one (Isaac Miles) played fairly well as a freshman but scored just 6 points per game.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=38&u_sid=2164792

Matt-
The only thing I would bother getting worried about is if any of those players actually does excel and beat your guys. Don't get worried about hype and somebody else's idea of potential. As the above article says, the best player Creighton has had this past decade, Kyle Korver, was rated ZERO stars.
I think you and others around the Valley will be impressed with the guys Jim Les recruited.

 

[bravesonly]

I'm already impressed...is it college basketball season yet?

seriously this class is gonna kick all kinds of @$$ for years to come...we have serious JUCO players that will be good/great the next 2 years plus guys coming in that will be GREAT the next 4 years...sammyM and big willE are gonna be studs, then factor in the A-Train and West who i think will also be big factors not only in the valley but in the tourney as well, no contest we're gonna be the top 3 in the league for atleast 5 years to come (west being a senior in the 5th year).....yeah we'll be riding our BUYCKS to a few league championships in the next half decade IMHO

i love my old style kool aid after a cubs win...it really gets my red and white blood flowing!!!

 

[tornado]

Re: Best Recruits in Valley?

...
"How many 4 star recruits in the Valley right now? Answer: Two, P'Allen Stinnett of Creighton and Kenny Lawon of Creighton.

How many RIvals Top 150 in the Valley right now:

Ogirri of WSU
Stinnett of CU
Miles of CU
Millard of CU
Walker of CU

May be a couple others.

{Lawson was 4 star at Scout, #21 center in the nation}.".....

Ok...I'll take this one on..............
And I know some BlueJay fan or other Valley team fan will take this as a knock, but just try to refute the facts I will give you.

First....Da Coach already noted that Creighton's recruiting class of 2006 was supposed to blow everyone away.
And as he noted, two are already gone, Lawson still has never played, and Miles was solid but probably was the 3rd or 4th or possibly even 5th best freshman in the league, and CU fell off a bit, having double digit losses each of the last two years.

Kenny Lawson is one of those West Coast kids that scout (Dave Telep) seem to love to overrate. Anyone notice how he rates Jrue Holliday so incredibly high and yet Decatur's Lewis Jackson just ate the kid for lunch at the AAU event last weekend.
Scout gave Lawson 4 Stars, but Rivals sees it differently and they gave him 3-Stars.
Anyway, even if the kid is 6-STARS, how does it matter when he has given them no more benefit than Ty Morrison?
He still hasn't played and doubts exist if he can play at the level they once hoped.

My last question about Lawson then I'll give the answer.......if the kid is so great....4-Star as you say....tell me how many schools offered him a scholarship?
Only two...Creighton and perennial 200 RPI Oregon State!
That's right, Creighton was the only team with a winning record anytime this century that even offered the kid a scholarship....so the doubts about his conditioning and injuries must be pretty serious.


Next....tell me how great Ogirri turned out to be for Mark Turgeon. He turned out to be a huge headache....the kind of player that ruins a team and you have to run him off......

Then Stinnett, Millard...ahem...I guess let's wait and see.......
Millard has been a malcontent wherever he's at...

Stinnett has a little baggage as well seeming to change his mind about where he wants to play ever few months.
Did you see when Altman went to Arkansas, the very next day Stinnett said he was going somewhere else!
Notice after he screwed Iowa State a year ago by committing then decommitting...the only other scholarship offer the guy had was from Idaho.
(Oh, and by the way, scout has Stinnett as only 3-Star,)
That's right....Creighton beat out MIGHTY Idaho...now tell me the rest of the recruiters from the top schools aren't making a loud and clear statement if the only one in the nation actually offering P'Allen is Idaho!

Again..let me be clear...I am not claiming BU's recruits are all picture perfect........but I will say this.......

Sam Maniscalco went head to head with Top-50 guard Demetri McCamey in a game this past season and Sam had his way with the Illini recruit, helping his team to a big win over St. Joe's who boasts TWO Top 50 players in McCamey and Evan Turner.
So I'll take Sam M. over P'Allen anytime.

 

[LincolnJay]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, okay. :lol:

I guess we'll see.

I could sit here and refute your points left and right such as that P'Allen was on the Iowa State campus the week before he committed to CU on an official visit and Lawson had two offers but committed so early {verbal before the early signing period} that these other teams that were looking at him never had a chance to offer:

COLLEGE CHOICES INTEREST OFFER VISIT RECRUITED BY
Creighton (signed LOI) COMMITTED
Tulsa None None
Maryland None None
Oregon State None
Providence None None
San Diego St. None None
Virginia None None

And on and on and on and on and on.........

CU's class was the best this year in my mind {as you believe you have the best class}. Last year's class was also top flight and Lawson, Harriman, Brandt {three star WALK ON} and Miles is still a top class - kids getting sick and hurt like Morrison and Jackson can't be helped. Oh and if you didn't notice, Miles was playing on a GOOD team last year that didn't need him to star. Take a look at last year's all-frosh team:

All-Freshman Team
Osiris Eldridge, Illinois State, G, 6-3, Chicago (Ill.) Phillips Academy
Cole Holmstrom, Indiana State, G, 5-10, Bloomington (Ind.) South High
Isacc Miles, Creighton, G, 6-2, Kansas City (Mo.) Shawnee Mission Bishop Miege
Marico Stinson, Indiana State, G, 6-3, Memphis (Tenn.) Kingsbury High
Josh Young, Drake, G, 6-1, Lawton (Okla.) Lawton Christian High

Notice anything, like.....all of these guys played for bottom dweller Thursday night teams except........hmmmm, who?


You have a top class but don't go tearing down other teams recruits to make yourself feel better.

PS - If you don't believe Lawson was 4 stars, here ya go:

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1817828

And here's Stinnett:

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=29091&sport=2

 

[tornado]

That word "None" in your lists means that those schools have NOT offered Lawson....you still didn't refute what I said although you act like you did.
Lawson got the exact number of offers I said he did.

Lawson got only 2 D-I offers, Creighton and Idaho, and P'Allen had only two offers, Iowa State that he reneged on when he went to prep school (then Iowa State never offered again) and CU.
So actually P'Allen had only ONE offer.

Wasn't it you a year ago, LJ, that argued with me about Morrison? Have you not learned that we DO our homework here on BradleyFans? Let's just flash back and see who was right on the Ty Morrison argument.
Remember..Ty was at one time the #1 rated juco player in the nation, and you came on this board several times to argue he would be an impact player, even though several of our fine posters knew something was up in that all his offers dried up and his performances slipped.

Wasn't it you who took me (and some other BF posters) to task when I said Morrison had a big downturn in his juco soph year, then whe he backed out of his committment to Mizzou, all the recruiters noticed his drop is preformance and the BIGs dropped their offers...leaving only Creighton vying for his services.
Funny how I was absolutely DEAD right that something was wrong and that Ty Morrison just wasn't the same player...and that he'd probably NOT be a factor in 2006-2007.

Lincoln Jay-- here is your post insisting Ty Morrison was healthy (when in fact it turned out he WAS NOT!)
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=20315#20315

Here is another post where you mock someone who just questions whether Morrison might just be overrated!
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=20368#20368

Then I guess the facts seemed to cionfirm our suspicions were right and you were wrong.
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=28066#28066

Maybe it was a completely unexpected illness to you...but just maybe the facts of his significant performance drop-off and sudden disappearance of all the scholarship offers were the evidence you were looking right at, but never saw!


By the way, Miles, according to Rivals, only had one other offer besides CU and only made one other visit (to UMKC) according to an interview with Isaac.
http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=910&CID=528568

I think Miles is a fine player, but isn't by any means head and shoulders better than any of the other top 10 guards in the league. Anyway give him another year and he'll be gone, whereas the other top guards in the Valley will be back and better. In the end, Andrew Warren will have a better career than Miles.

 

[LincolnJay]

Oh, now we're going to attack Morrison who lost 25 pounds AFTER arriving at CU due to what turns out to be Graves Disease. Nice. I guess Gonzaga had him out for an official visit just before committing to CU just so they can blow some of their athletic budget on a stiff.

Who has an offer and who doesn't according to the kids is always a funny thing. Take the Cole-Scott kid you just got. He said he had an offer from CU. Funny thing is, I know the people who make the offers for CU and that wasn't true so who has or doesn't have an offer per the word of some kid who wants his ego stroked when doing an interview so he says he has an offer doesn't float my boat.

By the way, Miles made a number of unofficial visits to schools like Missouri, Kansas and even Creighton as I saw him at our senior night while he was a junior {a year before he committed}. I have no idea why a kid would take an official visit to his hometown school.

And as far as visits and offers for Lawson are concerned, well, I can only quote his words:

Three-star power forward Kenny Lawson spent the summer playing behind the Lopez twins for the EBO AAU club, but that did not stop a number of schools from seeing his potential. Even though Lawson, 6-foot-8, 220-pounds and from Vista (Calif.) High School, plans to sign in the spring, he recently visited on Pac-10 school and will possibly visit an ACC school this month.

Last weekend Lawson visited Oregon State and came away with a very positive impression.

"The thing that really stood out was how well I fit in with the team," said Lawson. "I had a really good time, and the football game was fun."

Along with Oregon State, Lawson has an offer from Creighton, whom he visited in September.

"I liked everything about my Creighton visit," he said. "There was nothing I disliked at all. I had a chance to tour the campus and an opportunity to meet the academic advisors. I also spent some good time playing pick up with the team."

Joining Oregon State and Creighton on Lawson's school list are Providence, Maryland, Virginia, Tulsa and San Diego State.

The Maryland coaching staff is scheduled to visit Lawson on Friday, and there is the possibility that Lawson will head to ACC country for Midnight Madness.

"I'm tentatively scheduled to visit Virginia on October 14th," he said. "I'm going to sign late, though, because my recruiting got such a late start. So I have time to push the visit back."

 

[DUBulldog]

Oh, now we're going to attack Morrison who lost 25 pounds AFTER arriving at CU due to what turns out to be Graves Disease. Nice. I guess Gonzaga had him out for an official visit just before committing to CU just so they can blow some of their athletic budget on a stiff.

Who has an offer and who doesn't according to the kids is always a funny thing. Take the Cole-Scott kid you just got. He said he had an offer from CU. Funny thing is, I know the people who make the offers for CU and that wasn't true so who has or doesn't have an offer per the word of some kid who wants his ego stroked when doing an interview so he says he has an offer doesn't float my boat.

By the way, Miles made a number of unofficial visits to schools like Missouri, Kansas and even Creighton as I saw him at our senior night while he was a junior {a year before he committed}. I have no idea why a kid would take an official visit to his hometown school.

And as far as visits and offers for Lawson are concerned, well, I can only quote his words:

Wait a minute......in your second paragraph, didn't you say that you can't believe what these kids say? :twisted: :roll:

(nothing like a Drake fan giving a Creighton fan a bad time on the Bradley board)

 

[LincolnJay]

Oh, now we're going to attack Morrison who lost 25 pounds AFTER arriving at CU due to what turns out to be Graves Disease. Nice. I guess Gonzaga had him out for an official visit just before committing to CU just so they can blow some of their athletic budget on a stiff.

Who has an offer and who doesn't according to the kids is always a funny thing. Take the Cole-Scott kid you just got. He said he had an offer from CU. Funny thing is, I know the people who make the offers for CU and that wasn't true so who has or doesn't have an offer per the word of some kid who wants his ego stroked when doing an interview so he says he has an offer doesn't float my boat.

By the way, Miles made a number of unofficial visits to schools like Missouri, Kansas and even Creighton as I saw him at our senior night while he was a junior {a year before he committed}. I have no idea why a kid would take an official visit to his hometown school.

And as far as visits and offers for Lawson are concerned, well, I can only quote his words:

Wait a minute......in your second paragraph, didn't you say that you can't believe what these kids say? :twisted: :roll:

(nothing like a Drake fan giving a Creighton fan a bad time on the Bradley board)

Good point. Who knows what's what. :lol:

 

[bravesonly]

i thought i logged onto bradleyfans.com but apparently i'm on valleytalk.net, my mistake

:lol:

 

[LincolnJay]

i thought i logged onto bradleyfans.com but apparently i'm on valleytalk.net, my mistake

:lol:

Sorry, it's your board and I shoulda shut up but your fan attacked CU kids so I responded.

 

[mexicobufan]

Shouldnt every fan base think their recruits are the best? One of the great things about the MVC over the last couple of years is how every school pulls for every MVC team as long as your not playing them. I hope CU has a great recruiting class as long as you end up tyhe season right behind BU!!!

Go MVC!!!!!

 

[dogsrus]

i thought i logged onto bradleyfans.com but apparently i'm on valleytalk.net, my mistake

:lol:

Sorry, it's your board and I shoulda shut up but your fan attacked CU kids so I responded.

Jay stop over anytime......nothing wrong with good healthy debates.

 

[Grassman]

i thought i logged onto bradleyfans.com but apparently i'm on valleytalk.net, my mistake

:lol:

Sorry, it's your board and I shoulda shut up but your fan attacked CU kids so I responded.

Jay stop over anytime......nothing wrong with good healthy debates.

I agree Jay, I welcome your input. sometimes this board gets to sterile!
We need diversity! oops almost sounds like I am a liberal?

 

[bravesonly]

i thought i logged onto bradleyfans.com but apparently i'm on valleytalk.net, my mistake

:lol:

Sorry, it's your board and I shoulda shut up but your fan attacked CU kids so I responded.

haha its all good, i was just giving ya guys some sh*t...i love college basketball and all the energy it brings, even when we're 6 months away from the season. its what makes it fun year round so keep on posting and stopping by.

GO VALLEY

 

[tornado]

i thought i logged onto bradleyfans.com but apparently i'm on valleytalk.net, my mistake

:lol:

Sorry, it's your board and I shoulda shut up but your fan attacked CU kids so I responded.

No, LJ you are welcome to your opinion.

As you know well I did not attack any player, so don't accuse me of attacking Morrison.

All I said was that the people on BradleyFans HAD done their homework, and they had noted the big drop off in Morrison's performance and we weren't alone, as the schools he was visiting also noticed something wrong and all pulled back their offers. And in the end we were right about him and you were wrong. Facts are facts, we proved not to be so dumb after all.

Graves Disease isn't something that simply turns on one day like a light bulb, and very likely it went UNDIAGNOSED for several months befor he arrived on campus there, but it probably had something to do with his performance.
I wish the kid well, and would never have wanted it to turn out the way it did, but oddly, the evidence WAS there that something was wrong.

Now I am saying something doesn't quite look right with Lawson and P'Allen. Something funny going on.
Why are supposedly talented kids getting no other offers? The major recuriters are actually pretty smart people, all I am saying is something is up........



PS--- Lincoln Jay....explain this one to me..........
After Dana Altman changed his mind and came back to Creighton, an interview with P'Allen Stinnett said this........

"...........Altman had a change of plans (and returned to Creighton.)

"I was so happy that I wanted to scream," Woodfox said. "I called my mom right away, and she was happy, too."

Woodfox's elation was shared by three of the other four Bluejays recruits reached Tuesday night.
However, P'Allen Stinnett, a guard from Las Vegas, was more terse.

"I'm not doing any interviews right now," Stinnett said. "Call me in a few days."
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=2359348

So what gives.....this does not sound like a happy camper!
Do you think just maybe the signing of Woodfox and Witter is insurance against P'Allen doing something unexpected?

 

[LincolnJay]

P'Allen's on campus right now so I feel pretty comfortable that he's not going anywhere. A quote from Kenny Lawson in a note to Kenton Walker on Kenton's MySpace site {yes, I am a recruiting wonk}:

Apr 24 2007 7:38P

p'allen dunked on manny gakou today in pick up hella nasty haha! if that was in a game it would be on espn top 10 at like number two!

 

[tornado]

We'll be looking forward to it, as BU had a couple guys' dunks make the Top 10 in the past two years.

But 6-2 guys don't get a lot of chance to dunk "over" people anywhere in D-I. Unless he develops an outside shot...

 

[georgethedog]

P'Allen's on campus right now so I feel pretty comfortable that he's not going anywhere. A quote from Kenny Lawson in a note to Kenton Walker on Kenton's MySpace site {yes, I am a recruiting wonk}:

Apr 24 2007 7:38P

p'allen dunked on manny gakou today in pick up hella nasty haha! if that was in a game it would be on espn top 10 at like number two!

Dunk, dunk, dunk... Personally, I am sick of dunks. What does a dunk count? TWO POINTS! Two points is also what a guy who makes two free throws gets. If guys would spend more time practicing free throws and less time practicing dunks, our teams would surely be better in the long run. :lol: