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Officiating in MVC Tourney

B

BU_EMT128

New member
I am unsure if this was posted in another thread, however I feel that the officiating at yesterdays Bradley game was the worst officiating performance by an individual member of a crew (The short bald guy) and a crew in general. Many many traveling calls, hand checks, jump balls were missed, and it seemed like a substantial number of fouls that were called were either "ticky-tack" or after they had missed the first two fouls on the play. Officials should never decide a game, and that is exactly what happened last night. The play I am referring to is the Matt Salley layup with less than two minutes to go to put us ahead by one, in which he was fouled in the act of shooting and the short bald official called it an on the floor foul... and Salley missed the front end of the one and one. It was an uphill battle from the beginning, and as much as I am unhappy with the way it was officiated on our end, it was just as bad on the creighton end as well. I hope that we can put some money down as a conference and pick up some good officials, because this is just becoming unwatchable....

Ok rant over.
 
The foul on Matt Salley in the final minutes happened right in front of me,
and the Creighton defender grabbed the back of Matt's jersey and tried to hamper him to stop the shot, yet Matt got the shot to fall.
The move by the defender was not in any way to play defense, but was an intentional effort just to grab the jersey and stop the shot from going in.
It wasn't in any way an attempt to harm Salley, but it was an INTENTIONAL foul as the defender got beat and could have been called basket good, free shot as well and BU gets the ball out of bounds........but.......

Two different refs were on the baseline and saw the play clearly and all three blew the whistle for a foul but the old gray-haired Higgins came running in from near mid-court to signal he wasn't allowing the basket and called the foul on the floor, taking a couple points away from BU.
Sadly, it might have been the call that made the difference, and Higgins manufactured it in his head, as a player simply shouldn't be allowed to gain an advantage and get points taken of the scoreboard by intentionally fouling.
Even the Creighton fans near me knew they made off like foxes on that horrible call.
 
I don't think anyone said anything about a conspiracy. It was a bad call. From where I was sitting I saw a handcheck that had been allowed all game and then after the play the ref from across the floor ran in waving off the basket. People closer have said they saw Salley's jersey pulled to prevent the basket which would be an intentional foul. Either way it was a bad call. As in any game fans of both teams could probably point to calls they disagreed with. This just happened to be such a key call given the situation. Bradley fans are going to be unhappy about it. But there were many factors besides that call that went into the loss. Poor play by Bradley and a pretty well played game by Creighton determined the outcome. The bigger point is the overall poor officiating in the MVC which has gone on for a long time. Again no conspiracy just bad officiating.
 
I was also right behind the Bradley bench and therefore about 30-40 feet away from the play, and the foul we are talking about occurred because Salley got a pass and had nobody between him and the basket. The CU player realized it, and fouled him intentionally by grabbing him to try to keep him from making the basket. It was exactly what the and-1 rule was made for. It should have counted.
I have no problem with the officiating, but it should at least be consistent. Those guys weren't consistent. Some shooters get knocked to the floor as they shoot, and it isn't a foul, and others get a foul with minimal or phantom contact. That is what drives players, coaches, and fans like me crazy.
 
lefty said:
Is it always a conspiracy against Bradley?
Click to expand...

do you mean is there an anti-BU bias, right?
Well, it certainly isn't that far out of the question...although I have never seen anyone allege it.

Haven't we had discussion about whether refs make more calls against Black players than white players?
Here is the link...is it bias, conspiracy??
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2857469

And we have also had plenty of discussion about whether women have been discriminated against in college athletics.

And believe it or not, lefty, there is even a scientific study proving that more calls consistently go against the higher seeded teams in college basketball tournaments. Call it a conspiracy if you want, but that isn't what these people did, they simply documented and proved statistically that it happens.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=0a315d1fd08ba6000ec8fa9a0fd952b6


Why then do you object to a fair and open discussion about whether BU got bad calls.
I was there, and as I said, even the Creighton people sitting all around me freely admitted and openly spoke to the fact that it was a terrible call and may have gained them a win.

Just like some cars are lemons, and some players miss shots and have a bad game.....dontcha think some refs just have a bad day sometimes, and that possibly some are biased....maybe just a little??
It would certainly fit with the statistical facts.
 
The Valley Refs have been bad all year for everybody.I don't understand how SIU gets by with the handcheck every game.
 
when we beat Creighton nobody complained about the refs
and when we lost to WSU nobody complained about the refs
 
Let's just face it the refereeing in the MVC needs to step up before the league can take it to the next level. The ACC, SEC, Pac 10, Big 10 pay the refs a lot more money, put their refs through an evaluation process where the bad ones are let go and the Valley just let's these guys who call terrible games one after another stay for eons. I have heard from basketball people that when a 4 star+ big man wants to go to a mid-major they tell them that you will never get a break from the referees because they are not as good and they do not know how to call a game for bigs. This overall lack of attention just hurts our league and teams not just BU.
 
In all fairness, the reffing in the Valley is better the past couple years, and it's because of a concerted and well publicized effort for the Valley to land the better and more experienced refs for many games.
But in doing so...it's sort of a backhanded admission that the reffing in the past does leave something to be desired.
But if the calls are the same way all season long, and then we get a better quality and caliber ref in the tourney, then it gets hard on coaches and players to know how the game will be called....and adjust. But why should they have to adjust??


Here is an example of how it hurt SIU....
they've been playing with the intense hand checking all year....and it hasn't been called,
so they feel pretty free about using the hand check.
Then bingo...they get into the MVC tourney, and a lot of hand checks DID get called against SIU, and all of a sudden....they are in trouble.
FIVE different players were in foul trouble, SIU got outshot at the FT line 26-18, and SIU got whistled for more fouls than in the regular season.
Of the EIGHT teams that played Friday, SIU is the ONLY team that got blown for MORE fouls in their Friday game than they had averaged on the season.
In other words...the refs were distinctly calling fewer fouls -- but were calling the hand check, but SIU couldn't adjust and it hurt them -- in fact it might well have been the difference in the game.
BU by the way, Bradley led the league in fouls called on them during the regular season but were blown for no more than the average on Friday's games......
just that the one blown when Salley made the basket was called wrong and allowed the Creighton player to gain a huge benefit by fouling.
 
I'm just kind of joshing on the conspiracy T, Its just that all I've read is how bad of defense we played. And there was a fouled called but the shot should have counted or it should have been intentional.....fact is MS still missed the ft...so that didn't help either.
It's a Bradleyfans board so I guess it all makes sense.

It just seems like we lose our objectivity here sometimes,thats all
 
I thought our game agaist Creighton was refereed fairly well except for the Salley call ( to me the whistle sounded after the ball had left his hand) ; also watching Pollard hug Lowery before the SIU game just does not look appropriate as you would have thought they were relatives that had not seen each other for awhile.I only ask that the officials be consistent with their calls on both ends of the court and consistent each half .
 
hmmmm....who was it who has said things like............

"The refs weren't very good"
http://www2.pjstar.com/index.php?/w...point_of_emphasis_and_more_after_watching_bu/

"the refs around college basketball are going to get worn out blowing their whistles..."
http://www2.pjstar.com/index.php?/w...point_of_emphasis_and_more_after_watching_bu/

"Also, the officiating was markedly better and much less invasive Wednesday with confident veterans Steve Olson, Gerry Pollard and Tom O'Neill making - and, more important, not making - calls.
Only 25 fouls were whistled by that trio vs. 42 by the considerably less accomplished crew of Steve Skiles, Bo Borowski and Tom Eades at UIC.
Also, just five referee-decided turnover whistles (travels, palms, five seconds) were blown Wednesday vs. 17 at UIC.
It was a textbook example of one of the sport's maxims that, within reason, good refs let the players decide the outcome of a game."
http://pjstar.com/stories/111607/DAV_BEUJ82Q9.071.php

So I guess they have lost their objectivity?
 
tornado said:
hmmmm....who was it who has said things like............

"The refs weren't very good"
http://www2.pjstar.com/index.php?/w...point_of_emphasis_and_more_after_watching_bu/

"the refs around college basketball are going to get worn out blowing their whistles..."
http://www2.pjstar.com/index.php?/w...point_of_emphasis_and_more_after_watching_bu/

"Also, the officiating was markedly better and much less invasive Wednesday with confident veterans Steve Olson, Gerry Pollard and Tom O'Neill making - and, more important, not making - calls.
Only 25 fouls were whistled by that trio vs. 42 by the considerably less accomplished crew of Steve Skiles, Bo Borowski and Tom Eades at UIC.
Also, just five referee-decided turnover whistles (travels, palms, five seconds) were blown Wednesday vs. 17 at UIC.
It was a textbook example of one of the sport's maxims that, within reason, good refs let the players decide the outcome of a game."
http://pjstar.com/stories/111607/DAV_BEUJ82Q9.071.php

So I guess they have lost their objectivity?
Click to expand...

I am not sure they have lost their objectivity so much as wanting to be the "look at me and what I do" type of ref. I have seen so much inconsistancy this year that it is pathetic. We have had refs that have called the first halve one way and then turned around and called the second halve completely different.
The MVC said 3 or 4 years ago they were making an effort to improve the refereeing by paying to get better refs and in some ways they have done that very thing. The problem you run into is that the bigger conferences started to pay even more to keep those refs and when they get to be on TV guess where they want to ref at?
The best thing that the Valley could do is decide how they want their games called in the league and school their refs accordingly before the season even begins. Also penalize a ref for doing a bad job and when a ref is being biased toward certain teams (whether good or bad) keep that ref from being allowed to work those games or kick them out of the league comletely. Actually they need to go to a bonus system where the games are watched afterward by the person in charge for the MVC and get rated and either penalized in pay or get a bonus depending on all good or bad of a job they do. I have done some refereeing and would not really want their job but on the other hand they need to "do their job" and not constantly talking to the coaches and players like they do so often anymore.
The problem as I see it they want to be a part of the action and too often the action is at a faster pace then most of them can keep up with. The other problem is that too often a call is made on what they think they see and not what they actually see. A good example of that was this weekend (can't remember which game because I seen so many) a ref called reaching in and was behinid the players and could only see the players arm move towards the other player. Another ref was straight on and never made the call. I know that it will never happen but this is when the other ref should step in and say "no call" because you didn't see it correctly. I seen a lot of these blind calls this weekend.
One question for anyone "can some please explain traveling to me". When I coached and played you got 1.5 steps and that was only if you were shooting the ball. I caouldn't begin to count the number of times that I seen players come down the floor and make a move and have both feet up in the air and land on the floor before passing the ball w/ no call made. It looked more like the NBA then college. Help me out.
 
Lefty, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we were referring to the posters losing some objectivity, not the referees, right?
 
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