Wichita writer:The Wichita State bench would finish 2nd in the MVC?

[tornado]

Here it is - kinda bold conclusion after seeing just one early exhibition vs. Hawaii Pacific who finished 6th in their conference last year..
especially considering they didn't win the MVC Championship last year..

Maybe he's right - but if they're so sure, then just play your 3rd team against Bradley and rest the main guys...OK?

"the Shockers’ likely starters for the 2015-16 season..will undoubtedly be the best starting five in the Missouri Valley Conference.

But could Wichita State’s second five ...— finish second in the Missouri Valley Conference?

" I’m not so sure their third team wouldn’t finish in the Valley’s upper half."

http://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article43633428.html#storylink=cpy

[shockerfan13]

Couple things.

First, that is a columnist that is only paid to write his opinions. Most Wichita State fans don't even like him. His sole purpose is to ruffle feathers. Take it with a grain of salt.

Second, the Shockers did win the MVC championship last year. You were probably talking about St Louis, but they were Valley Champs regardless.

Also, I am not going to say the 2nd team would win the Valley. But, they would probably be competitive. Just one way of saying this team is pretty darn deep.

Mainly don't mistake this guy for a WSU beat writer. He is strictly a Wichita sports columnist. He makes a lot of over the top remarks regarding KU also

[tornado]

whatever - and please don't interpret doubts about this guy's claims as dissing on the Shox....
but he's to you guys what Kirk Wessler is to us.... he's like your long time guru...
he's a Wichita Sports Hall of Fame writer and he's been at it for many years...
..and he's entitled to write what he wants.... I just think most fans of other Valley teams will think he's sticking his neck out a little too far.

Everyone knows Wichita is a good team and a deep team - nobody would think otherwise...but to start saying this kind of thing is kinda silly - you kind of admit it - so if anyone in Peoria had ever said that in Bradley's best years I think it would get a little snicker or two in Wichita, don't you think?

[valleyclimber]

Looks like damage control by a WSU poster. Shocker Nation does not want this to get out there as it would be bulletin board material for every other team in the Valley.

WSU has had great success over the past 5 years or so, and you have to respect that as a Valley fan, but they are so full of themselves it's not even funny.

[tornado]

any team that thinks their 11th thru 15th best guys are as good as most other starters in the MVC will kinda raise a few eyebrows

[Stickboy46]

any team that thinks their 11th thru 15th best guys are as good as most other starters in the MVC will kinda raise a few eyebrows

I think the quotes he made were a little dramatic. I'd reword them a bit because saying a team of 5 people could win a conference is an odd comparison. This is a fairer comparision

Shockers 1-5 would start for any MVC team
Van Vleet, Baker, Wessel, Morris, Grady (Based on exhibition starters)
Shockers 6 -10: Most would start for any MVC team or at least be major contributors
Frankamp (Top 40 out of HS, City league leading scorer), Shamet (Top 100), Brown (Top 100), Kelly (not as many accolades, but a solid player)
Shockers 11-14: Most if not all would be major contributors for any MVC team
Taylor (3 Star, lightning quick), McDuffie (Top 100), Hamilton (crazy athlete just needs the mental game to match), and Wamukota (He'd probably be a role player only on most teams)

Then you can also throw in transfer Peyton Allen (3 star out of HS)

I think the point of the poorly worded article is the depth. You have guys that are QUALITY guys, Top 100 guys that will be fighting for but probably not getting minutes because of it. It's not intended to diss the rest of the Valley, but step back for a second and think about if Bradley were to land Taylor, McDuffie, Hamilton, Allen, or even Wamukota. What would the hype be about them coming to Bradley and how much they would play? Those are the guys that are at the back of the bench for WSU this year. I think that SHOULD have been more of the direction of the article rather than saying that team would be top half, because you can't compare 5 players to a team.

Sorry for the rambling, just wanted to give my POV on it, and say I understand the "eye rolling" that the article will probably cause.

[brocks]

I think the quotes he made were a little dramatic. I'd reword them a bit because saying a team of 5 people could win a conference is an odd comparison. This is a fairer comparision

Shockers 1-5 would start for any MVC team
Van Vleet, Baker, Wessel, Morris, Grady (Based on exhibition starters)
Shockers 6 -10: Most would start for any MVC team or at least be major contributors
Frankamp (Top 40 out of HS, City league leading scorer), Shamet (Top 100), Brown (Top 100), Kelly (not as many accolades, but a solid player)
Shockers 11-14: Most if not all would be major contributors for any MVC team
Taylor (3 Star, lightning quick), McDuffie (Top 100), Hamilton (crazy athlete just needs the mental game to match), and Wamukota (He'd probably be a role player only on most teams)

Then you can also throw in transfer Peyton Allen (3 star out of HS)

I think the point of the poorly worded article is the depth. You have guys that are QUALITY guys, Top 100 guys that will be fighting for but probably not getting minutes because of it. It's not intended to diss the rest of the Valley, but step back for a second and think about if Bradley were to land Taylor, McDuffie, Hamilton, Allen, or even Wamukota. What would the hype be about them coming to Bradley and how much they would play? Those are the guys that are at the back of the bench for WSU this year. I think that SHOULD have been more of the direction of the article rather than saying that team would be top half, because you can't compare 5 players to a team.

Sorry for the rambling, just wanted to give my POV on it, and say I understand the "eye rolling" that the article will probably cause.

It's not like BU hasn't seen its share of highly touted recruits. Most of us are happy to be rid of the egos and overrated athleticism of guys who came in with lots of stars after their names but the wrong stuff between the ears. Nobody around here is going to be impressed with your prowess on paper. That's arbitrary nonsense. Kudos to WSU for developing an enviable program, but there's nothing about Wichita that inherently requires its reign atop the Valley in perpetuity, let alone its theoretical ownership of the Valley's top 2 or 3 spots. For the sake of WSU basketball in general, I hope that kind of hubris hasn't taken root more broadly.

[tornado]

but here was the combined stat line for their 5 guys on the 3rd team (11-15th guys) in their exhibition game...
5-14, 1-6 from 3-pt, 13 pts, 17 rebs in 57 minutes (29% of the game/minutes played.)
...on a per 40 minutes played it woulda been well under 50 pts and they'd have lost to Hawaii Pacific by at least 10-20 pts
...just sayin'....

[Stickboy46]

but here was the combined stat line for their 5 guys on the 3rd team (11-15th guys) in their exhibition game...
5-14, 1-6 from 3-pt, 13 pts, 17 rebs in 57 minutes (29% of the game/minutes played.)
...on a per 40 minutes played it woulda been well under 50 pts and they'd have lost to Hawaii Pacific by at least 10-20 pts
...just sayin'....

I wasnt trying to start an argument, just provided a perspective. I actually agree that picking 5 guys and saying that they can win a conference is dumb. My point is that all the way down to the third string is high quality players that would compete anywhere in the MVC. So I'll excuse myself from the conversation after I correct one thing. I'm not sure where you pulled your stats. For one, I only listed 4 people in that last group and those 4 people combined for 23 points and 19 rebounds in 64 minutes. Which on a per 40 would be ~72 points ( which using per 40 of parts of team isn't a great comparison anyways)

[tornado]

if only your freshmen played would you have beaten St. Joe's by 20?

[Stickboy46]

if only your freshmen played would you have beaten St. Joe's by 20?

Interesting question, with 4 scholarship freshman and 1 walk on it means they would all play 40 minutes. So I would be inclined to say no, but looking at how St joes has played, I won't rule it out

[shockerfan13]

I agree it is a stupid thing to put in an article. That is why I basically said Lutz is a blowhard that loves creating waves, locally and nationally. Hell, he has gotten into it with Gottlieb. He loves attention it gives him.

Paul Suellentrop is our beat writer, Lutz is not. He is just a sports columnist. Writes about all local and regional sports.

And no, I am not trying to damage control. The Shox are gonna get everyone's best shot due to the last couple years of running through the conference. Any amount of bulletin board material shouldn't matter. Teams wanna knock them off already.

[tornado]

A couple Wichita-related topics...

Looks like Wichita State sees their ticket window to the big time possibly closing soon...
contemplating re-starting FOOTBALL then maybe making the jump to a bigger conference...

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article48764285.html

also- anyone wanna re-open that discussion about Wichita's 2nd & 3rd team dominating the MVC?

[Da Coach]

Yes, I saw this tweet from the Sports Editor of the Wichita Eagle newspaper this morning about the possible revival of Wichita State football-

https://twitter.com/kseminoff/status/674560288696328192

#Shockers football has been dead 29 years. @President_Bardo is willing to talk about it again. From @PaulSuellentrop http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...e48764285.html ??¦

Personally, I thought that using the term "dead" was an unfortunate and poor choice of words to describe the previous football program. As some might recall, this horrendous airplane crash played a part in the decline and end of the previous Wichita State football program. 31 players, staff, booster, and the plane's crew were killed in this tragic 1970 event-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_State_University_football_team_plane_crash

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article2480109.html

[RoyalShock]

To be clear, they are not looking into the return of football. They are starting an evaluation of the entire athletics landscape as part of what's been a process of transformation of the entire university (new dorms, innovation campus, multi-purpose development, etc.) . Football and conference affiliation is just one of the many things they will look at during the evaluation. The overall goal is to put WSU in the best possible position to fulfill it's role within the city of Wichita and be a driving force for growth and prosperity.

Athletics plays a role in that, especially considering the Shockers are the biggest game in town, and probably always will be since Wichita is not big enough to support a major professional sports franchise.

As far as the 2nd/3rd team winning the MVC discussion, I never bought into it and I hope the recent struggles will bury any future silliness, in that regard.