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Big Mac admits to steroids

most pitchers aren't really tempted to use steroids since it may give them too much extra bulk and hurt their precision and control...
but some pitchers are power pitchers (Dibble, Clemens, etc...) and some of them have been implicated and the evidence of their physical bulking up is suspicious..

I ran across this funny piece written by Rob Dibble for ESPN in 2002 -
he basically debunks the fact of 50% or more using steroids, but (now that he's out of the bigs) he says there should be testing...
He says this...
"There's a general feeling that lots of players use steroids, but there's also
an understanding that the best don't need them (though maybe the
peripheral players think they need them). The guys who were on the juice
were often injured; they were peripheral players, not the superstars.

The best players in the game today -- A-Rod(etc).... are great athletes
who are far from being overly bulked-up. Not like a guy on juice. With Barry
Bonds, he's had a personal trainer. Is Bonds using steroids? It isn't
inconceivable, but it's very doubtful."
http://espn.go.com/talent/danpatrick/s/2002/0529/1388409.html


Brady Anderson - who has since been linked with steroids....is another guy who spent nearly a decade hitting only 10-20 homers a year, then suddenly in 1996 and beyond - jumped into the 50 per year range ....
 
True most pitchers wouldn't use PEDs to bulk up, but mac even said he began using them to heal quicker. I don't believe that they had nothing to do with increased power, but I believe it very possible pitchers used similar drugs to re-build and maintain muscle due to the tremendous wear on the arm. The whole thing is a mess and I don't know what the HOF will do. I honestly don't see how they can't say well you were the best of your era compared to other players so you're in, but it's also hard to let someone who did cheat to inflate stats.
 
tornado said:
illegal in the US?...well, we will get into a semantic issue, but steroids in and of themselves are NOT illegal and.......taking them is NOT illegal...
not by a long shot...but therein lies a fairly tricky issue...
that there are a lot of things about steroids that ARE illegal,
but just taking them is NOT!!
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that Mac had an Rx for anabolic steroids and was taking them under medically supervision.
 
he didn't need one..someone else had likely broken the law to obtain them for him...but note nobody is even hinting that he be arrested, as he will not be charged...unless for perjury...
 
Nope he can't be charged for perjury he never lied. He wanted to tell congress what he did in '05 but senator davis would not grant immunity so his lawyers devised the famous phrase "im not here to talk about the past" to prevent him from lying along with not admitting and wrong doing.
 
tornado said:
he didn't need one..someone else had likely broken the law to obtain them for him...but note nobody is even hinting that he be arrested, as he will not be charged...unless for perjury...
Click to expand...

You cannot be more wrong about this issue. I agree that no one is calling for him to be arrested, and people are typically not arrested for taking another person's Rx drugs. Steroids are illegal to take without a Rx. PERIOD. There is no argument about this. Marion Jones was arrested, just like Martha Stewart, for lying to a grand jury, but their previous actions were still illegal.

"The Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990 added anabolic steroids to the federal schedule of controlled substances, thereby criminalizing their non-medical use by those seeking muscle growth for athletic or cosmetic enhancement. It places steroids in the same legal class as barbiturates, ketamine and LSD precursors."

Illegal since 1990. If you want to point out that he took steroids legally for 1 year, then well done! It's ok!

Anabolic steroids are far different than corticosteroids. I don't know if that's part of what you were getting at with your first post.

"Under the Control Act, it is unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally to possess an anabolic steroid unless it was obtained directly, or pursuant to a valid prescription or order, from a practitioner, while acting in the course of his professional practice (or except as otherwise authorized). A first offense simple possession conviction is punishable by a term of imprisonment of up to one year and/or a minimum fine of $1,000. Simple possession by a person with a previous conviction for certain offenses, including any drug or narcotic crimes, must get imprisonment of at least 15 days and up to two years, and a minimum fine of $2,500, and individuals with two or more such previous convictions face imprisonment of not less than 90 days but not more than three years, and a minimum fine of $5,000. Distributing anabolic steroids, or possessing them with intent to distribute, is a federal felony. An individual who distributes or dispenses steroids, or possesses with intent to distribute or dispense, is punishable by up to five years in prison (with at least two additional years of supervised release) and/or a $250,000 fine ($1,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual). Penalties are higher for repeat offenders."

As of 2005, steroids are a schedule III drug. Other schedule 3 drugs include ketamine and vicodin. These drugs cannot be obtained without a Rx.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Schedule_III_drugs_(US)
 
duh....you didn't need to show me since I have already cited what's in that law...you just proved that it is illegal to be found in possession of them without the proper authorization ..or to possess them illegally........I knew that and said so plainly a couple times already in this thread...(see the quotes below)...

But I have said that there is NO law banning the taking of them....because if they are allowed with a prescription, then it surely cannot be illegal to take them...

Here-- read again what I have said--
tornado said:
....steroids in and of themselves are NOT illegal and.......taking them is NOT illegal...
not by a long shot...but therein lies a fairly tricky issue...
that there are a lot of things about steroids that ARE illegal,
but just taking them is NOT!!
Click to expand...

and

tornado said:
I think you'd have a very hard time showing evidence as such...
--again..taking them was not illegal..only the manufacture, distribution, or sale when unlicensed
..
Click to expand...




Go back and read carefully -- as I have said...
it is NOT illegal to take them.....I have never seen such a law, and the only law you have cited bans steroids only in the same way that codeine, Valium, or even Ritalin are "banned"....they are banned from possession by people who are not properly licensed or authorized to have them.
But legislators know well enough that a law prohibiting the taking of such drugs would be virtually unenforcable and useless...and so the laws ban control the obtaining and trafficking of the drugs but not the taking of them.

I can talk freely and give interviews to Oprah and tell of taking the drugs, and I have no fear that the feds will come and arrest me, as taking them is not a violation of the law...
They might come and want to inspect my car or home, but unless they find me in possession of the drugs illegally, they can not and will not arrest me for taking them...period, that's all I have said and you have yet to cite anything to the contrary.

I won't argue other than make just one simple request--
it ought to be easy given it's "illegal to be taking" all those things that many, many people are KNOWN and admit to taking...or have been caught by drug testing...

Give me some examples of someone who was arrested or prosecuted or convicted of TAKING steroids...
NOTE-- TAKING, not having, posessing, buying, trafficking...

surely this is easy, because tons of people have been tested and failed, it happens all the time...
it has even been made widely known that guys like Manny, Palmeiro, etc...have failed tests and others like McGwire, Canseco, Caminiti have openly admitted it...

(please don't use examples of people who were busted for possession of them....I want an example of just ONE person anywhere who was found guilty of simply taking them....
 
tornado said:
duh....you didn't need to show me since I have already cited what's in that law...you just proved that it is illegal to be found in possession of them without the proper authorization ..or to possess them illegally........I knew that and said so plainly a couple times already in this thread...(see the quotes below)...

But I have said that there is NO law banning the taking of them....because if they are allowed with a prescription, then it surely cannot be illegal to take them...

Here-- read again what I have said--


and






Go back and read carefully -- as I have said...
it is NOT illegal to take them.....I have never seen such a law, and the only law you have cited bans steroids only in the same way that codeine, Valium, or even Ritalin are "banned"....they are banned from possession by people who are not properly licensed or authorized to have them.
But legislators know well enough that a law prohibiting the taking of such drugs would be virtually unenforcable and useless...and so the laws ban control the obtaining and trafficking of the drugs but not the taking of them.

I won't argue other than make just one simple request--
it ought to be easy given it's "illegal to be taking" all those things that many, many people are KNOWN and admit to taking...or have been caught by drug testing...

Give me some examples of someone who was arrested or prosecuted or convicted of TAKING steroids...
NOTE-- TAKING, not having, posessing, buying, trafficking...

surely this is easy, because tons of people have been tested and failed, it happens all the time...
it has even been made widely known that guys like Manny, Palmeiro, etc...have failed test and others like McGwire, Canseco, Caminiti have openly admitted it...

(please don't use examples of people who were busted for possession of them....I want an example of just ONE person anywhere who was found guilty of simply taking them....
Click to expand...

Are you EVER wrong?
 
you decide...I doubt I think I am right any more often than you think you are right...but then that's you right

but I do note unbekannt did modify/change his statement from the original one he made...

note his first statement after I said it is not necessarily illegal to be for McGwire to take steroids was...
"Illegal in the US - yes"

but now he has amended his statement to...
"Steroids are illegal to take without a Rx"

ahhhh....now we're talking....so now we're getting somewhere....
if you could just amend the statement further to
"illegal to be in possession of without proper authorization or precription" then we will be in agreement
 
tornado said:
you decide...I doubt I think I am right any more often than you think you are right...but then that's you right

but I do note unbekannt did modify/change his statement from the original one he made...

note his first statement after I said it is not necessarily illegal to be for McGwire to take steroids was...
"Illegal in the US - yes"

but now he has amended his statement to...
"Steroids are illegal to take without a Rx"

ahhhh....now we're talking....so now we're getting somewhere....
if you could just amend the statement further to
"illegal to be in possession of without proper authorization or precription" then we will be in agreement
Click to expand...

Do you have any real friends?
 
I was asked a question - and answered even tho it was a little off topic...

I am not bothered when someone has an opinion that I don't share..but sure seems like others are...
 
tornado said:
you decide...I doubt I think I am right any more often than you think you are right...but then that's you right

but I do note unbekannt did modify/change his statement from the original one he made...

note his first statement after I said it is not necessarily illegal to be for McGwire to take steroids was...
"Illegal in the US - yes"

but now he has amended his statement to...
"Steroids are illegal to take without a Rx"

ahhhh....now we're talking....so now we're getting somewhere....
if you could just amend the statement further to
"illegal to be in possession of without proper authorization or precription" then we will be in agreement
Click to expand...

I modified it because you seem to enjoy arguing a technicality. Please tell me how you can take steroids without possessing them? Once you take them, you are technically in possession of them.

Yes steroids are a controlled substance and are illegal without a Rx.

There are very few drugs that are completely illegal in the US. Steroids are completely legal in other countries without a Rx, however.

I really hope that you are a lawyer. Otherwise you missed your true calling. Unbelievable failure to admit defeat.
 
unbekannt said:
I modified it because you seem to enjoy arguing a technicality. Please tell me how you can take steroids without possessing them? Once you take them, you are technically in possession of them.

Yes steroids are a controlled substance and are illegal without a Rx.

There are very few drugs that are completely illegal in the US. Steroids are completely legal in other countries without a Rx, however.

I really hope that you are a lawyer. Otherwise you missed your true calling. Unbelievable failure to admit defeat.
Click to expand...

I am not a lawyer, but I think the legal term "possession" is a different thing that if you were found to have them in your system.
It is possible to be using them without ever being in possession- doctors frequently treat people for hormonal deficiency states. Those doctors will prescribe steroid drugs, sometimes in pill form but they might inject their patients with steroids on a regular basis (yes, there are medical conditions where people are deficient in their natural steroids, and need supplementation on a regular basis). That person, though a user, would not ever be in legal possession of the steroids.
 
Oh my - at risk of people getting ticked off just by presenting facts and simple opinions....
defeat? I offered a simple challenge to anyone for a few examples of someone being prosecuted or charged with using drugs...
...still haven't seen one......I guess that makes me the victor??

it is possible to get caught possessing them and NOT take them, and it is possible to take them and NOT be caught in possession of them...so clearly those two actions are different even if you can't see the difference.

seriously...there really are cases of people being dismissed from jobs for using, losing their parole for using, or even being kicked off a D-I basketball team for simply using..(all of which are people who violate their agreements) but none of those people - NONE are charged as having broken a law...because they haven't other than to violate the agreement or contract.
...but I am still waiting for an example of someone who broke the law by using...

Maybe to some you can't "take steroids without possessing them" but we are discussing the law and as you might guess, the law cannot be vague -- it is instead very specific...

You are free to conclude that you are right and I am wrong, but since I do deal with these precise issues literally on a daily basis in my profession, and since I am required to know the facts and have even passed tests on these facts, I must disappoint you further by saying I cannot admit defeat.
all I ever said is there is no law that states you cannot take steroids...and I am right.
 
offered with no opinions...

two widely differing, mutually exclusive views on the steroid issue:

--Per Charles Barkley, Lou Pinella, etc..."McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens... should all be in HOF regardless of steroids"
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/art...y-mcgwire-should-go-hall-fame-arenas-jokester
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/piniella-believes-mcgwire-will-make-hall-of-fame.html
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cardinals/2010-01-07-adam-wainwright-mark-mcgwire_N.htm

--Per Ryne Sandberg, Goose Gossage, etc....NOPE -- Keep all those guys out of the Hall of Fame.......BAN them...
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=350322
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2010776462_base13.html
 
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This board is brutal. Between this, and the ridiculousness of someone purposely ruining a meaningless forum poll, people would think there is absolutely nothing to do in the midwest... ohh wait.
 
Tornado,

It does sound like you are arguing a technicality. Under that reasoning has anybody who has taken say meth, or codeine, or marijuana over the past decade without getting caught in the act, broken the law? I think it is still against the law even though their is no witness or informant.

McGwire did not have a legal reason or right to take steroids. He gained an unfair advantage over players who played by the rules. Just because he did not fail a blood test or urine test does not mean he was innocent. I think part of the reason he wanted immunity from the hearings was because he knew he had no legal right to take steroids.

To me this sounds like Clinton and the definition of "is."
 
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