It's an opinion, but it's got to be based on fact. If I have an opinion that Les is not a good coach based on so and so numbers, then that's one thing. But if I constantly write that Les is a bad coach just because I did not like him from the outset, that's more a personal bias against him than a well formed opinion piece based on factual information.
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Kirk Wessler editorial 3/31
- Thread starter Da Coach
- Start date
It's an opinion, but it's got to be based on fact. If I have an opinion that Les is not a good coach based on so and so numbers, then that's one thing. But if I constantly write that Les is a bad coach just because I did not like him from the outset, that's more a personal bias against him than a well formed opinion piece based on factual information.
tornado
New member
When KW wrote that article - BU then went on to beat Creighton in the MVC Tourney 81-62 - pretty much a blowout...
The two teams' win totals in the five years preceding...all the way back to 2005 were:
Jim Les 102
Dana Altman 107
I agree Dana's numbers are better - but the difference is NOT that much...
BTW--- if we look at Dana's TOTAL number of wins after 8 years in D-I it totals...119
Jim Les has 142 in his first 8 years in D-I....now that difference IS substantial..
Also - if we look at the wins that Dana had in years 3-8 after he'd gotten some experience and some of his own recruits...
Dana's total in those 5 seasons is...75
Jim Les' total in years 3-8 of his D-I career is ...102..again an enormous difference...
So I think any comparison has to take into account that Dana and Jim NOT fully comparable unless you look at and compare the same time spans....
...not selected time spans arbitrarily chosen to prove the point you want to prove.
The two teams' win totals in the five years preceding...all the way back to 2005 were:
Jim Les 102
Dana Altman 107
I agree Dana's numbers are better - but the difference is NOT that much...
BTW--- if we look at Dana's TOTAL number of wins after 8 years in D-I it totals...119
Jim Les has 142 in his first 8 years in D-I....now that difference IS substantial..
Also - if we look at the wins that Dana had in years 3-8 after he'd gotten some experience and some of his own recruits...
Dana's total in those 5 seasons is...75
Jim Les' total in years 3-8 of his D-I career is ...102..again an enormous difference...
So I think any comparison has to take into account that Dana and Jim NOT fully comparable unless you look at and compare the same time spans....
...not selected time spans arbitrarily chosen to prove the point you want to prove.
ZZZZZZ....
Once again you do your patented spin job where you take 20% of the story and proclaim it to be 'proof' of whatever your agenda of the moment is.
Why don't you just compare apples to apples and show what Altman and Les have done during Les's time at BU...and don't just include win totals, postseason win totals, and Sweet 16 appearances and call it 'case closed'.
Make sure you include head-to-head records, overall won-loss records, overall Valley records, Valley regular season finishes, Valley tournament finishes, NCAA appearances, NIT appearances....etc....if you truly want to compare the two coaches fairly (which I know you don't...;-)).
Creighton has a far better program than BU...Altman is a far better coach than Les...just move on and hope things get better for us in the future....
He can explain it if he wants to, but what I think tornado is trying to show is that Les is not the rotten coach that some make him out to be. Granted Altman has won several Valley championships in this time span, but the thinking here is that Les still should be the coach until proven otherwise. That means waiting and seeing what he does with a veteran team next year that hopefully stays healthy. I think people will be pleasantly surprised!
SaintLouBrave22
New member
No one is saying he is a rotten coach or rotten guy, but he hires piss poor assistants, plays terrible rotations, and still apparently thinks he's in the WNBA by the fact that he would rather play 3-4 guards than play a regular rotation that might win something....
Also, how many conference and tournaments championships has Altman won....
How many has Les won?
Yes we have them beat on the Sweet 16 thing, but that nostalgia can only last for so long when you play at 2:30 EVERY SINGLE YEAR because you're always just an average team, nothing bad, but nothing special either...
Like most others on this side of the fence, I don't have a personal reason to not like Les, not by any means, but I just ask...
When is it OUR TIME?!
Its been 14 years now since we won a conference championship...
Its been 22 since we won a tournament title and now we are 1 of 3 teams in conference to never win one since the Valley moved to St. Louis.
So I ask again....
When is it OUR TIME?!
AZ BU Fan
New member
I guess we should assume from Tornado's analysis, that JL led BU will now start to win MVC titles, MVC Tournaments, and get NCAA/NIT titles akin to what Creighton did with a more experienced Altman as coach.
Can I get confirmation from T and his "JL is as good as Altman" (and better than Davis, Marshall, Jacobson et al) followers that if BU again finishes around 0.500 in the Valley next year with a one a done in the MVC Tourney and no NIT/NCAA that the JL experience has run its course?
I can hear it now if Drake finishes next year ahead of BU in the middle of the MVC pack, BU's demise was because BU lost EM, they still have a young roster, and JW went elsewhere!
Can I get confirmation from T and his "JL is as good as Altman" (and better than Davis, Marshall, Jacobson et al) followers that if BU again finishes around 0.500 in the Valley next year with a one a done in the MVC Tourney and no NIT/NCAA that the JL experience has run its course?
I can hear it now if Drake finishes next year ahead of BU in the middle of the MVC pack, BU's demise was because BU lost EM, they still have a young roster, and JW went elsewhere!
SaintLouBrave22
New member
Does Bradley have a Kevin McKenna (Indiana St coach), Darrien DeVries, Todd Eisner (now departed) or Brian Fish (now departed) that we don't know about?
I feel the problem is just as much in the assistants that are and have been here as it is Les....
We need better all across the board if we want to compete for anything...
Otherwise we can all reserve our pregame tables for 11:30 Friday morning and our seats will be warm come 3:30 that afternoon.
Where is it written opinions HAS TO BE BASED ON FACT? It's still his opinion even if it is misinformed and not supported by facts or based on personal bias. And as a columnist he is supposed to write opinion pieces. And once again I am not trying to defend his opinion. I am only saying this is nothing new but people on this board seem to feel obligated to get all worked up over it everytime KW writes something.
If you don't like him.. if you feel writes from bias rather making intelligent arguements. IGNOR HIM! Instead his aritcles get posted here sending more people to the PJS to read it giving his comments more hits.
Sorry...I think you might need to check a dictionary to refresh your memory as to what an opinion actually is. It has nothing to do with a fact.
o?·pin?·ion (
n. 1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof:
Well if you read my response more carefully, I just said next year is our time, or at least on paper it should be. If we blow this chance for a top 3 finish, which should be enough for the Big Dance under a possible 96 team format, then I agree this may be as good as things get. But let's give JL a chance to see what he can do with a veteran team that is INJURY FREE. That's the key! And this team should be deep enough to overcome at least one major injury.
As far as me saying some call him a rotten coach, I didn't actually mean you thought that way SaintLouBrave22. But it is obvious that you don't think he is that great of a coach and it appears you have very little faith that he will get the job done next year. I'm sure you are rooting for him to do well, but you feel the chances are slim. Fair opinion, but I think he has been saddled with some bad luck, and maybe certain offensive styles only work for certain teams. But I don't think Les is devoid of solid basketball knowledge, and with the proper assistants, I think he will do a great job this next season. If not, then I agree we can revisit the issue after next season.
I assume that's where Tornado is coming from, but again I won't speak for him. He can address this when and if he wants to. I know that's where I stand though.
As far as another .500 finish is concerned, I agree that this would probably be as good as we'll see from JL, but my problem is that he's done well before, and one very mediocre year should not disqualify him as a decent coach. Yes, some say it was his assistants that led him to two or three good years, but I find it hard to believe he would not have learned from them. Therefore, I think this team will do well next year.
I'm sure the discussion of a coaching change will surface at this time next year if we finish in the middle of the pack again, but I'm not the one who has to make this decision, and I will root for the guy no matter how long he coaches here.
Sorry...I think you might need to check a dictionary to refresh your memory as to what an opinion actually is. It has nothing to do with a fact.
o?·pin?·ion (-pnyn)
n. 1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof:
Okay, that may be the true definition of what an opinion is, but I still believe it does not reflect well on the person making an opinion if the "said" opinion is not at least validated by some factual information. And that is the problem with the drive-by media these days. So much of what is printed, even by the so-called unbiased newspaper writers is so skewed no one knows what actually passes as the truth. And of course the columnists who are allowed to interject their own viewpoint, sometimes don't base their viewpoint on actual factual information either. Many have personal vendettas against certain people and many gullible people take it as the truth. That's why it's so important to keep the internet freely open to research stories that may not be truthful.
This team will have a chance to win a championship next season if they find a big center that can contribute and Les finds an asst. coach that can help on defense and post player coaching, also BU needs to go back to the 2 forwards, a center and 2 guards , S.Maniscalco,A.Warren,T.Brown,J.Wilkens and a big center, W.Egolf would also fill a power forward spot if Wilkens does not come to BU. This team could play more size by playing more zone defenses as a lot of the good NCAA teams are doing more of these days.
And I think Les can redesign the offense if he gets that center. I just hope this extra time of not playing in the postseason results in something good. Hopefully we'll hear something within the next couple of weeks or so.
I think it will be sooner than that.:biggrin:
sar?·casm (s?¤r'kāz'əm)
n.
- A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
- A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
SaintLouBrave22
New member
Actually I agree with you there in that he could be a decent coach if coupled with some good NEW assistants AND if we did get an above average Center to put it all together...
Also, please switch to the zone and quit being a hard *ss! The zone performed so much better, but the guy has to be stubborn and stick with the man D...That and change the offensive system to fit the personnel, not just because, hey this is what I think they should do...Mold the system to fit the players, not the other way around...trust me, it'll work much better...
I am giving him a chance to turn it around, and I promise I am giving him a clean slate to start the season, unlike some, and will gauge things based on how he does next season...
That being said, he can not afford to have injuries, suspensions, etc. as he is clearly toeing the line of job security....
I hope he does well, and if he does I will gladly cheer on my Braves as always, BUT if he doesn't, then I will accept that we need someone else to come in that can do a better job...
That is all most of us really ask for...Peoria is a place that we expect to excel in basketball and will be very happy with whoever it is be it Les or someone else that hangs banners and brings championships to town...