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Hayden Hoerdemann

I hate to pile on this kid because this is not about him...but HH had 2 POINTS! against the Eureka Hornets friday night.

Again, I just don't see it. The kid has had a real good hs career and may be a nice mid/low major college basketball player. He is plain and simple just nowhere near as good as he is being portrayed to be.
 
just to add a couple things...


kids do have bad games, and HH has more good ones than bad ones..
and kids are also recruited on potential and other talents such as defense that don't always show on paper....Chris Roberts also had a few really bad games of only a couple points, but JL saw the potential..
 
CABUFan said:
Nothing against Butler, as I think they are a great program and would love Bradley to be where they are right now, but to say they are "just like" Gonzaga and question whether they are a mid-major I think is very premature. Until the last 3-4 seasons, they were unquestionably nothing more than a decent mid-major program. They have had a great run the last few seasons, and I admit that they seemed to reload in a non-midmajor way last season when most expected them to suffer from losing Graves, but I don't see how a 3-4 year run takes them out of the mid-major category. As far as I know, they do not have a high-major budget, and it remains to be seen whether they can keep recruiting well enough to sustain their success. Gonzaga, on the other hand, has had consistent success for what, 15+ years? Butler may be on their way to becoming the next Gonzaga, but they are definitely not there yet.
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Umm, what?

Butler has averaged 23 wins over the last 15 years, missing the post season (NIT or NCAA) two times during the stretch (2 S16s) - rated in the Top 25 in '01, '02, '03, '07, '08, '09, and '10. (Top 15 in each of the last four) This season is the 8th regular season championship in the last 11 years. Over the last 10 years, Butler rates in the Top 25 schools for weeks in the top 25. BU is on pace this season to eclipse 30 wins for the 2nd time in three years and his the 4th winningest program in the country over the last 4 years. Furthermore, Butler graduates 1 person who plays meaningful minutes after this year.

I think comparing programs to one another is a bit silly, but lets not be crazy.
 
Indy_BB said:
Umm, what?

Butler has averaged 23 wins over the last 15 years...
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almost...last 15 years (unless you want to count this season)..but Butler does play in a perennially weaker conference...
I don't deny their record has been better than Bradley's but I sure doubt they'd have tallied 335 wins playing 18 Valley games per year.

26-6 (2008-2009)
30-4
29-7
20-13
13-15
16-14
27-6
26-6
24-8
23-8
22-10
22-11
23-10
19-8
15-12 (1994-1995)
total record/15 seasons, 335-138 - average = 22.33 wins per year, 9.2 losses per year
 
I started with this season's 21-4, which is consistent with the other things cited.

As far as the Valley goes, that gets into idle speculation that is completely beside the point. The point being, Butler has been in the Top 25 more years than not this decade and I believe that was what the poster above was talking about. "Mid majors" around the country are stoked to find themselves in the "receiving votes" category once every several years.

There are a handful (and two of them were mentioned) that are consistent in that regard. If you can't see the distinction in perception to the general public, I dont know what to say to you.
 
Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Double D said:
I hate to pile on this kid because this is not about him...but HH had 2 POINTS! against the Eureka Hornets friday night.

Again, I just don't see it. The kid has had a real good hs career and may be a nice mid/low major college basketball player. He is plain and simple just nowhere near as good as he is being portrayed to be.
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Hoerdemann was ill that night and sat on bench half the game. I have watched Hayden play since Jr. High and he IS a D1 quality player. He has gotten better every year and had a great AAU season last summer. I would say he has had a good season averaging 18 points a game and shoots 50%. He can handle the ball, has high IQ on the floor, and is a team player. He has grown too, 6'3" and 185 pounds and still moves quickly and makes great passes and has assists out the you know what every game. He is a great kid and a great basketball player.
 
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gotta throw in my opinion....he is a definate D-1 player and will make a fine college player.....

smart...shooter...good handles....
 
Da Coach said:
Hayden Hoerdemann gets a scholarship offer from Western Michigan-
http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/haydenwmu.html

I guess that certifies that he is a D1 caliber player. He still has a year of high school, so we'll see how many more D1 offers he gets.
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Again, please read my initial assessment. I am not saying that there is not a place for the kid in division 1 basketball. Even somewhere in the valley. But there are 330 division one basketball teams. I am just commenting on how highly he is ranked for his size and skill set.
 
3 offers (Eastern IL, Illinois State, and Western Michigan) with interest from all over the place.... I would say he has the size and skill set to be a fine D1 player....
 
he is a bit taller than and slightly more athletic than Justin Dehm....who has done quite well at Furman..
I know that's not the top level of D-I, but Justin has career averages of 10 ppg, 2.5 apg, 36% 3pt shooting and will easily end his career with around 1200 pts.
 
I follow the recruting trail huge down here in Southern Illinois/St. Louis but I will say that alot of the kids from Northern Illinois I think are overrated period. Just because they play tough competition does not mean it translates to the college game......especially unathletic white boys......All I have to say is kevin stineman from SIUe.....highly rated but nothing but a playground balla!
 
cougarcrazy82 said:
I follow the recruting trail huge down here in Southern Illinois/St. Louis but I will say that alot of the kids from Northern Illinois I think are overrated period. Just because they play tough competition does not mean it translates to the college game......especially unathletic white boys......All I have to say is kevin stineman from SIUe.....highly rated but nothing but a playground balla!
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Not sure I agree with this.
Where was Kevin Stineman ever rated highly? Some rankings did not have him in the top 40 kids in Illinois in 2008. D1 schools all passed on him because of his lack of quickness and lack of athleticism.
 
Earned three varsity letters in basketball at Stevenson High School...Selected in 2007 to the Sears Supersectional All Conference team, All-Area, All-Tournament teams in Illinois 2A State Finals...Stevenson High School Team Most Valuable Player...Selected to the All American Showcase First team...All Star at the Double Pump & Hoop Mountain Camps...Reebok Regional Combine selection...Rivals.com 2008 Illinois Top 25...Played with the Rising Stars helping them to a national Top 20 ranking and a playmakers prep classic championship in 2007

That is from his Bio at SIUe.......I am just saying that sometimes recruiting buzz and stuff doesn't mean jack......I rem in 2000 I attended a small college in St. Louis (DIII Maryville Univ at the time) and there was a guy named Henry Shannon that went there......This guy had all the recruiting buzz and mind you he was no dumbie......He ended up straight up killing it......So we shall see....
 
cougarcrazy82 said:
...especially unathletic white boys.......
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I hope you aren't including Hayden Hoerdemann....

if you are trying to make the claim that all the unathletic white boys in the Bloomington and Peoria area get hyped.....then that comes as quite a shock to me......extremely few ever get their names mentioned...

Most people who have seen him know Hayden Hoerdemann is a very athletic kid who can play 3 or 4 different sports but has chosen to concentrate on soccer and basketball.
He is not only the best soccer and best basketball player at his school - but I would stick my neck out and say he's probably the best basketball player and soccer player in the Bloomington area.
http://www.illinihq.com/blogs/recruiting_wrap/2010/05/27/significant_summer_for_hayden_hoerdemann
http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/sc...cle_14deda5a-e5f3-11de-adc9-001cc4c002e0.html

Can you give a couple examples of kids from the southern end of the state that were overlooked and turned out to be stars?

...the few that have been hyped coming out of the southern part of Illinois like Manual Cass, Josh Tabb, Dustin Maguire.....
and more recently Brett Thompson (some labelled him a Top 10 big man nationally!), Kyle Cassity, Kenny Leverette...have failed to shock our senses so far...
 
I am fighting the urge to go "Pam Adams" on Cougarcrazy82 over his "unathletic white boy" rant. :eek:

But upon further review, I get sooo sick and tired of PA's constant "white racism" rants in the PJS, I would be a hypocrite to sound off in the opposite direction.

Cougarcrazy82, if we accept your opinion 'unathletic white boys' are especially overrated as potential college bb players, would you agree that, based on the recent spate of criminal activity by certain college basketball (and football) players that ....... are especially ......Nope, not going there....:razz:
 
:eek:Ok folks I never said that there were "overlooked" stars in the south.....I would have to go along with the fact that because the population is heavily favored toward the north that competition is better so players stand out more......But that does not mean it always translates to the college game (especially D-I).......Also, you can call me a rascist I am just stating the facts........look at the makeup of most Division I schools starting lineups and they are heavily laden with minority players...........And you can gang up on me all you want I like BU and I follow this site religiously so just because my screen name isnt BU related does not mean anything......
 
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