More info regarding the new Bradley TV deal

[CABUFan]

I wonder if they will combine the radio commentary from Dave Snell and Joe Stowell at the begining???? This would probably save money, but from what I have seen and heard in the past, the combination of radio commentary paired with the televison broadcast seems to be a little disconnected and I am certain that it is difficult for the announcer to do this.

I guess it must be hard, since it doesn't seem to be done very much, but Chick Hearn (who I believe called Bradley games early in his career) did both the TV and radio broadcasts for the Lakers for many, many years. Anyway, the Snell/Stowell broadcast seems to work pretty well with bubraves.tv.

 

[ghunt]

Bad ratings? High production cost?

Bad ratings? High production cost?

Ok, I have heard it stated numerous time that WEEK was losing ratings by doing BU games, as well as it being too costly. However, this seems not right at more than one level. First, they have been carrying games for as far back as the 1970's, and just now it is a losing proposition for them? High production cost? No way, they already employee on-air personalities, already have the equipment and have been doing it for decades, so the marginal costs of "adding" the games to their line-ups are negligible (unless what BU has asked them to pay to air the games was increased,but no one has addressed that issue direclty). Second, bad ratings? Could someone please look up the real ratings figures so we can see. Other than being a good PR move by acting like a good community member by airing games across the span of 4 decades, I think it has been good business and a money maker for WEEK. Third, if ratings have declined, especially as the program has rebounded, whoa, what the heck does that say about Central Illinois, which in some folk's minds is only second to Hoosierland in it's appreciation for basketball? With the garbage that airs on network TV nowdays, you can't tell me (well, you can, but I would hate to believe it) that most Central Illinoians would rather watch reality cr** over one of the 50 if not top 25 best college basketball programs in the country, that just so happens to reside in their own community.

To me, the thing has overtones/seems analogus to what the Cardinals pulled with KMOX (except BU isn't buying a station, just controling production), asked for when the ownership asked for more than what they knew the station could deliver, and then the ownership moved to create the formation of a network they could develop, control, and get more revenue out of. Which begs a question, what is the revenue to BU out of this deal?

Also, if I can throw out another issue for folks to ponder, if there are over 370,00 people in the metro area, why are not all the games sold out? People supposedly love their basketball, and it's not like Peoria has a pleathora of social alternatives in the winter--even if we consider high school ball competing with the games, most do not coincide with BU games. Creighton and Wichita are putting them in the seats with larger arenas, and we don't always fill ours up. And, to stir the pot some more, we are lucky if we stand and cheer any more then 10 minutes of any give game. But then again, there has always been the contention that the students are integral to the fanbase, and it has proven difficult to get them downtown through the years. (I'm guessing that people may respond a little passionatelty to this, but it is a set of honest observations of fans at the games that I am throwing out there, and if stirs folks up, that is sort of intent--we need and should always have 11,000 plus, standing, yelling fans, including the 3,000 red Bradley sweatered blue-hairs ;-)

 

[shaunguth]

Ok, I have heard it stated numerous time that WEEK was losing ratings by doing BU games, as well as it being too costly. However, this seems not right at more than one level. First, they have been carrying games for as far back as the 1970's, and just now it is a losing proposition for them? High production cost? No way, they already employee on-air personalities, already have the equipment and have been doing it for decades, so the marginal costs of "adding" the games to their line-ups are negligible (unless what BU has asked them to pay to air the games was increased,but no one has addressed that issue direclty). Second, bad ratings? Could someone please look up the real ratings figures so we can see. Other than being a good PR move by acting like a good community member by airing games across the span of 4 decades, I think it has been good business and a money maker for WEEK. Third, if ratings have declined, especially as the program has rebounded, whoa, what the heck does that say about Central Illinois, which in some folk's minds is only second to Hoosierland in it's appreciation for basketball? With the garbage that airs on network TV nowdays, you can't tell me (well, you can, but I would hate to believe it) that most Central Illinoians would rather watch reality cr** over one of the 50 if not top 25 best college basketball programs in the country, that just so happens to reside in their own community.

To me, the thing has overtones/seems analogus to what the Cardinals pulled with KMOX (except BU isn't buying a station, just controling production), asked for when the ownership asked for more than what they knew the station could deliver, and then the ownership moved to create the formation of a network they could develop, control, and get more revenue out of. Which begs a question, what is the revenue to BU out of this deal?

Also, if I can throw out another issue for folks to ponder, if there are over 370,00 people in the metro area, why are not all the games sold out? People supposedly love their basketball, and it's not like Peoria has a pleathora of social alternatives in the winter--even if we consider high school ball competing with the games, most do not coincide with BU games. Creighton and Wichita are putting them in the seats with larger arenas, and we don't always fill ours up. And, to stir the pot some more, we are lucky if we stand and cheer any more then 10 minutes of any give game. But then again, there has always been the contention that the students are integral to the fanbase, and it has proven difficult to get them downtown through the years. (I'm guessing that people may respond a little passionatelty to this, but it is a set of honest observations of fans at the games that I am throwing out there, and if stirs folks up, that is sort of intent--we need and should always have 11,000 plus, standing, yelling fans, including the 3,000 red Bradley sweatered blue-hairs ;-)

I can't really speak to the television side of things, because I don't have all the facts and I would much rather take a wait and see approach to the new deal rather than bash it right out of the box like some have done since it was announced. I wish every single game was a sellout and really don't have an explanation for that other than there could (and should) be a lot more students at the games. I had upper bowl tickets to the Providence game last season and personally saw an older man in my row spend half the game yelling at a BU student couple that stood and cheered on their school at appropriate times of the game. These two were not obnoxious and they didn't stand the entire time, yet this man would not let up on them. I simply cannot bring myself to understand the concept of getting on someone's case that is there to cheer on their school! Carver Arena should be rocking each and every game! Also, there should never the need to have RED-out games. EVERY game should be a RED-out if only everyone would dare put on a red shirt/sweater when they go to a Bradley game. A white-out every once in awhile would be nice, but there should never be the need to pass out red shirts at a Bradley game!

 

[Da Coach]

I have said about all I can say about what I know of this deal. Again, I can assure you Bradley never made a lot of money with their TV deals, and was not looking to make more money with this deal. WEEK does lose money on most of the basketball broadcasts. If there was money to be made, I assure you there would be other TV stations lined up to try to get the games. But there aren't. In fact, not one of the MVC schools has any kind of deal with local TV stations that was as good as Bradley's previous deal, and most of the schools either never have games on TV, or it is a rare event.
Basketball and Bradley are popular in Peoria, but there are an overwhelming majority of people in the Peoria area who do not care about Bradley and would rather see Deal or No Deal.

And finally, you seem to take a swipe at Bradley's fan following. We are now in an era when people have more options to choose from for their entertainment than ever before. Most college basketball programs are seeing a decline in attendance. Yet Bradley has not. They perennially remain one of the top 50 programs in the country in attendance. For many years, Bradley lead the MVC in attendance, and has always finished in the top 3 for as long as I can remember. Omaha and Wichita are by far the largest cities and metropolitan areas in the MVC, much larger than Peoria. A size comparison would be closer to Bloomington-Normal (which is actually slightly larger in metro population than Peoria area), and Bradley draws far better than ISU does. The only city and metro areas that are smaller than Peoria, benefit from the fact that they are all large state schools with far greater student enrollment, and far more numerous alumni in the areas surrounding the school.
The final point is that, for a small school in a small market, Bradley does astonishingly well.


MVC...........cities..(US rank)..Metro populations--
Omaha......419,545 (#42)........822,549
Wichita.....357,698 (#50)........592,126
Des Moines.193,886 (#110).....534,230
Springfield..150,797 (#152)......407,092
Evansville...115,738 (#206)......350,356
Peoria........113,107 (#216)......370,194

Terre Haute..59,614................168,217

Waterloo......68,747
Cedar Falls...36,145
Combined population of CF/W - 104,892
Metropolitan area population - 162,263

Bloomington..74,975................
Normal.........45,386
combined population of B/N - 120,361- larger than Peoria
Metropolitan area population - 161,202

Carbondale..25,597.............59,627

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

http://www.citypopulation.de/USA-Metro.html

 

[lefty]

Not sure I understand the metro comparison between Peoria and B/N areas Coach.
Peoria metro is much bigger than B/N..Not that it makes a huge difference in this discussion

 

[Da Coach]

You are right, lefty. I meant to say that B/N was slightly larger than Peoria in total population of the 2 cities compared to the population of Peoria. The metropolitan area population is larger for Peoria, but not as much difference as you might think. The B/N and the Peoria markets are considered very similar as marketing areas.

I was responding to the original suggestion that Bradley should be able to draw crowds like they do in Omaha and Wichita. However, those markets are so much larger, that is an unfair comparison. Peoria and B/N would be much more of a fair comparison.

 

[lefty]

I understand coach. In reality one of the reasons B/N doesn't do as well as BU in filling seats is their population is much more transient. They don't have near the percentage of people living there that actually grew up in the area as the Peoria area. Therefore not near the passion for the Redbirds as BU fans for their team.
That's not a knock on those fans that are passionate it's just the way it is.

 

[MacabreMob]

Also, there should never the need to have RED-out games. EVERY game should be a RED-out if only everyone would dare put on a red shirt/sweater when they go to a Bradley game. A white-out every once in awhile would be nice, but there should never be the need to pass out red shirts at a Bradley game!

I agree.

But everyone needs to accept the fact that some people go to the games that aren't really a big fan of Bradley. Some are going just to see the local show. Some are going hoping to see them lose. I know there are fewer now than there has been in years past... but that's probably because there is less of a chance to see them lose.

For ex:

I know a guy took his boys to a game or two every year... but never took them to a game last year. Why? Cause he usually got free tix in the past but not any last year. So money was the issue? But he took them to an Illini game. And he went with a friend to the Mo St game - and in that game, he got what he was hoping for.

And then at the Providence game... I noticed a couple chaps a section over with their jackets on... standing but not really cheering... hands in pockets... I knew them... and they are Illini fans... one even had on an orange t-shirt... and with about a minute to go in OT, they left without saying much.

 

[Da Coach]

That points to another factor in how well teams in the MVC draw. Some Bradley fans are also Illinois basketball fans. If the Illini are on TV, there are those who will stay home from the BU game to watch the Illini on TV. Now maybe that will change a little if Illinois doesn't have an NCAA caliber team this year, but it has always been a factor Bradley (and IlSU) has had to deal with--- being a secondary basketball program in the state.

It could be worse, though. Indiana State will never be able to draw the IU fans that greatly outnumber the InSU fans in the Terre Haute area, and the same is true to some degree with Evansville and with the 2 Iowa schools in the MVC.

By contrast, Omaha is a very strong Creighton town, as Nebraska basketball has not been good for many years.

Most programs see a downturn in attendance when they have off-years. Indiana State, Drake, IlSU, and even MSU are examples. But Bradley has usually maintained surprisingly strong attendance even with bad years.
As I have heard it said by several highly successful D1 coaches-- There are about 250 D1 programs who would love to have the fans and support that Bradley gets.

In the long run, the Bradley TV deal will expose more people, in Peoria, and elsewhere, to Bradley basketball. That will hopefully produce more fans, and mean even better support in the future.

 

[Beninator]

I can't really speak to the television side of things, because I don't have all the facts and I would much rather take a wait and see approach to the new deal rather than bash it right out of the box like some have done since it was announced. I wish every single game was a sellout and really don't have an explanation for that other than there could (and should) be a lot more students at the games. I had upper bowl tickets to the Providence game last season and personally saw an older man in my row spend half the game yelling at a BU student couple that stood and cheered on their school at appropriate times of the game. These two were not obnoxious and they didn't stand the entire time, yet this man would not let up on them. I simply cannot bring myself to understand the concept of getting on someone's case that is there to cheer on their school! Carver Arena should be rocking each and every game! Also, there should never the need to have RED-out games. EVERY game should be a RED-out if only everyone would dare put on a red shirt/sweater when they go to a Bradley game. A white-out every once in awhile would be nice, but there should never be the need to pass out red shirts at a Bradley game!

Shaunguth, I have seen similar instances at BU games that I have attended and I dont understand this either. I wonder what the guy in your example would do if he attended a game at a place like Duke in which he would have to put up with the Cameron Crazies? I have posted in the past here about a disconnect between the team and the students...and again I am not knocking the students when I post this... I say this as I remember the atmosphere at games in the fieldhouse and find this lacking at the Civic Center. I was at the Providence game as well and thought that the crowd was one of the best that I had seen at a Bradley game in quite some time. I thought that the pregame festivities helped contribute to the college game atmosphere that night. I hope that the powers that be at Bradley will do more pregame activities like this.

 

[shaunguth]

Shaunguth, I have seen similar instances at BU games that I have attended and I dont understand this either. I wonder what the guy in your example would do if he attended a game at a place like Duke in which he would have to put up with the Cameron Crazies? I have posted in the past here about a disconnect between the team and the students...and again I am not knocking the students when I post this... I say this as I remember the atmosphere at games in the fieldhouse and find this lacking at the Civic Center. I was at the Providence game as well and thought that the crowd was one of the best that I had seen at a Bradley game in quite some time. I thought that the pregame festivities helped contribute to the college game atmosphere that night. I hope that the powers that be at Bradley will do more pregame activities like this.

I agree.....that was a great atmosphere to have against a Big East opponent for an NIT game. Actually, I remember being almost sick to my stomach at the end of regulation! That's how hyped up I was! Personally, I was quite pleased to see the couple standing and cheering their team even though they were in the upper bowl. Also, they were not directly in front of the guy that didn't approve, but more like four rows down.

 

[shaunguth]

I agree.

But everyone needs to accept the fact that some people go to the games that aren't really a big fan of Bradley. Some are going just to see the local show. Some are going hoping to see them lose. I know there are fewer now than there has been in years past... but that's probably because there is less of a chance to see them lose.

I understand the intangibles that don't allow everyone to wear red to a Bradley game, but those numbers should NEVER be great enough to warrant passing out red shirts before the game to insure the place looks red. If they are going to pass out red shirts, then they should try alternating red/white around the arena. That's the only way I think red shirts should be given away at a Bradley game.

 

[SFP]

I had upper bowl tickets to the Providence game last season and personally saw an older man in my row spend half the game yelling at a BU student couple that stood and cheered on their school at appropriate times of the game. These two were not obnoxious and they didn't stand the entire time, yet this man would not let up on them. I simply cannot bring myself to understand the concept of getting on someone's case that is there to cheer on their school! Carver Arena should be rocking each and every game!

I've talked about this before and I agree. Untill we get the students surrounding the floor (younger, more energy and probably had a few) we will not have a resounding home court advantage. Money talks so those blueheads get the seats they want. I wish they new they had their days and it's time to let the young have their fun. The same thing happened when I went there. I remeber those same blue heads politely clapping and probably yelled more at the students who got lucky enough to sit in front of them to sit down. If you cannot keep up with the students enthusiasm move your butt to the luxury suites. Duke alumni are happy to give money to their school because they win not so they get the nice seats.

 

[ph]

I do recall a post copied from the Providence board that Providence fans, watching TV, wondered if the Bradley fans ever sat down. I was at the game, and the "Blue Hairs" on the lower bowl, seats behind the benches actually did an outstanding job of standing most of the game.

Although the band does an outstanding job cheering, I do think that at least the first 5-10 rows of the student section should be packed with standing, jumping students, rather then the band (which cannot play if packed in that tight) being in the first rows... I may of been perceiving their seating diferently, as by the end of the season, the band seemed to be in a more appropriate arrangement...

 

[Dubl R 1]

I think the students should be given lower bowl seats, but we all know that BU is not gonna kick out that many lower bowl people who pay big bucks for tickets. However, If BU will not put the entire student section in the lower bowl, I think they should reserve the 1st 2 rows in every lower bowl section for students. Hopefully BU would have more students at the game than these seats could accomodate, but they would be 1st come 1st serve, like the bleachers at Wrigley Field. The students who didn't get a seat in these rows would then sit in the current area reserved for students. Having a ring of students in the first 2 rows around the court wouldn't displace a huge amount of lower bowl people and hopefully having the students standing would ensure the rest of the lower bowl would stand.

For those who don't want to stand, they can sit in the upper bowl. You can still see the court from the upper bowl, even if the entire lower bowl is standing up. We need to have the lower bowl standing and cheering. With the lower bowl's seating proximity to the court, it can be very intimidating and nerve-wracking. Much more so than some non interested fan sitting back with their arms folded disgusted that everyone else is having a good time.

I've had lower bowl seats within the first 10 rows of the court for the past 4-5 years, and everytime our row stands up to cheer for more than a few minutes, without fail, at least 2-3 people will start yelling at us to sit down, or yelling they can't see, or they scream a bunch of non-sense that they've paid their money to see the game, not the back of our heads. And I mean this happens every game, without fail. Also would somebody explain to these guys that the fans are supposed to stand until the first official's timeout, not when the other team calls a timeout before the 16 minute official's timeout. Nothing more irritating than the crowd going crazy, BU jumps out to a 10-2 lead, the other team calls timeout 2 minutes in, and the whole crowd then sits down like their all of a sudden attending a funeral. Don't let the other team off the hook that easy. Irritating.

Thanks for reading my rant.

 

[ph]

I thought that last year the announcer changed the standing rule to the first 4 or so minutes to prevent that...

 

[thefish7]

I like the first two rows of students idea, though I think that'd probably make some very big payers angry, but I especially think both ends of the court should be student section. Isn't it strange that for half of the game the other team gets to shoot at a basket that doesn't have a buncha raucous students behind it?

 

[Fetz86]

I would be happy just with that idea, of more students behind the other basket instead of being in the upper deck. It does always annoy me that the people on the other side dont do much when the other team is shooting free throws or anything.

 

[MacabreMob]

I like the idea of students on both ends.

I am not sure how students get tickets these days... but I recall a 'lottery' for sections when I was there. (so the smallest and dorkiest Frat might get the best seats)

I got an idea... (unless they already do this) How about general admission for the students on a first come first serve basis. The most fervent and craziest fans will show up early and often.

Imagine: The Sig Eps got Chapter tonight so many won't make the game... However, the Ducks and Snu's will be in huge force... but then again, Chi-O's are having an exchange tonight with the Pikes so could be a slim showing from them. The EE Majors have a huge exam tomorrow, but the Marketing Dept is having an easy week.

But no matter what - I wanna see the 'real' Long-Hair Fanatic in the front row... or did he graduate? Phyneous J Whoopie would know.

 

[amckillip]

I like the idea of students on both ends.

I am not sure how students get tickets these days... but I recall a 'lottery' for sections when I was there. (so the smallest and dorkiest Frat might get the best seats)

I got an idea... (unless they already do this) How about general admission for the students on a first come first serve basis. The most fervent and craziest fans will show up early and often.

Imagine: The Sig Eps got Chapter tonight so many won't make the game... However, the Ducks and Snu's will be in huge force... but then again, Chi-O's are having an exchange tonight with the Pikes so could be a slim showing from them. The EE Majors have a huge exam tomorrow, but the Marketing Dept is having an easy week.

But no matter what - I wanna see the 'real' Long-Hair Fanatic in the front row... or did he graduate? Phyneous J Whoopie would know.

MM... thanks for the enthusiasm, but it is first come first serve... LOL