10 questions surrounding the team this year

[shaunguth]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I thought the purpose of playing college basketball is to win something. All of the other attributes given JL - popularity, clean program (mostly), graduation rates, program interest etc are all great, and well deserved, but at some point in time some folks would like BU to win something other than finish runner up in post season tournaments we haven't heard of before.

I believe a trip to the Sweet 16 should count as winning "something" since there are very few Valley teams that have accomplished that feat in the last seven years.

I look at Drake where Tom/Keeno Davis win the conference and tourney in year 5, and, UNI where Ben Jacobson wins the conference and tourney in year 3...Neither team has the fan/alumni support, stadium, or location advantage over BU, but have had more success than BU has had with JL.

I'll simply disagree.

I like JL and everything he has done so far for BU, but would like to see the team win something....wasn't that one of the big reasons Mo was let go after he had success earlier in his career at BU?

Again, see 2006. I'm pretty sure if you would ask anyone on the team/staff or involved with the program, they would tell you they won "something" that year.

I suggest the line in the sand for JL and his days at BU will be if ISU (Bloomington-Normal) continues to have more success in the MVC season/tourney and NCAA/NIT appearances than BU in the next 2 years...

I believe we would be in trouble if we simplify things to the point of comparing ourselves to one Valley team. Maybe we should start scheduling like them too? No thanks! If your goal is to "win something", tell me how isu has had more success winning the MVC season/tourney and not making any NCAA appearances since JL has been here.

I am optimistic BU will be successful this year and next - however BU is not being mentioned at the top of the MVC for 2009-10 and don't know if that would change for 2010-11 if all the same players are back again. It would be nice to see more BU players showing up in preseason lists of top Valley players, recruits etc.

I have personally never cared one bit for ANY of the preseason "picks" and "lists". The coaches in the Valley can't even "pick" it right! I'll wait and see the results on the floor. As someone once said....."That's why they play the game."

 

[basketball nut]

I have personally never cared one bit for ANY of the preseason "picks" and "lists". The coaches in the Valley can't even "pick" it right! I'll wait and see the results on the floor. As someone once said....."That's why they play the game."

Couldn't agree more. All you have to do is look at these "so called experts" and how many picks they get right each year. DU is a prime example as they were picked for last place and had no one listed as a pre season all conference player and where was Iowa State picked last year and look what they did. Anyone remember JC being picked A/C pre season but he made it. In fact I beleive only 1 or 2 pre-season selections made it in the end that year.

As for winning all of us want to win but so do all of the other teams and if they were not bringing in good players, also, the coach wouldn't stay there. Yes we have brought in some very good players but so have most of the other Valley teams and that makes it hard to move up. All we can ask of JL is to get the best players he can and to get them to give 100% everytime out and to come prepared. If we do that we will usually get more W's then L's at the end of the year and if are "LUCKY" we may get to the NCAA tourn. which is more politics and less about quality, but that is a completely different subject.

 

[AZ BU Fan]

I sincerely hope BU and JL have much success in the next couple of years, and that the run in the NCAA in 2006 does not turn out to be the only success BU has during JL's tenure...

When does the BU 06 NCAA Sweet 16 accomplishment "get out of jail free card" expire vis a vis a desire to see someone lead BU back to the top of the MVC and win a conference/tourney title(s)?

Why shouldn't BU fans get frustrated seeing Drake and UNI have success in the MVC with new coaches/programs and not BU...Other than

Looking at all the stats people point out re wins, post season wins, etc over JL 7 years vs other MVC schools ring hollow to me vs no conference titles, no MVC tournament titles and a high water mark of 4th in the conference in 7 years.

The NCAA 06 success starts to have the same feeling as the 80's-90's BU national accomplishments - nice but not relevant to today....particularly if JL/BU don't have more success in the next 2 years...

You can say all the pre season predictions on team and player success don't mean anything, but I would sure like to see BU and its recruits/players/ coaches cited by their peers/media as the best going into a season and then expect them to succeed - wouldn't you? Sure beats low/no recognition and hoping for a miracle.

BU and its fans should rachet up their expectations of BU BB -

Can't wait for the season to start and see if BU can get back to the top.

 

[Out of Balance]

The line could be whenever JL does something JG does not like....

As long as JL keeps her on his women to buy gifts for list, as he indicated she was on the Brazil trip, he'll be all right:mrgreen: Maybe:!::lol:

 

[shaunguth]

I sincerely hope BU and JL have much success in the next couple of years, and that the run in the NCAA in 2006 does not turn out to be the only success BU has during JL's tenure...

When does the BU 06 NCAA Sweet 16 accomplishment "get out of jail free card" expire vis a vis a desire to see someone lead BU back to the top of the MVC and win a conference/tourney title(s)?

Why shouldn't BU fans get frustrated seeing Drake and UNI have success in the MVC with new coaches/programs and not BU...Other than

Looking at all the stats people point out re wins, post season wins, etc over JL 7 years vs other MVC schools ring hollow to me vs no conference titles, no MVC tournament titles and a high water mark of 4th in the conference in 7 years.

The NCAA 06 success starts to have the same feeling as the 80's-90's BU national accomplishments - nice but not relevant to today....particularly if JL/BU don't have more success in the next 2 years...

You can say all the pre season predictions on team and player success don't mean anything, but I would sure like to see BU and its recruits/players/ coaches cited by their peers/media as the best going into a season and then expect them to succeed - wouldn't you? Sure beats low/no recognition and hoping for a miracle.

BU and its fans should rachet up their expectations of BU BB -

Can't wait for the season to start and see if BU can get back to the top.

Why should the Sweet 16 "expire"? Is that not a great success? I guess if we won the Valley and/or Valley tournament three years ago, that would not count either?

I'm not frustrated seeing Drake win the conference because they managed to finish 8th the very next year and are picked by some of the so-called "experts" to finish 8th again this year! I really don't think that's the kind of "success" we should aim for as a program. As for UNI, I don't believe they've played a game yet this season so we'll see how they follow up on their successful season.

Of course the expectations should always be high, but to say JL's days at BU should be based on another Valley school that hasn't won the conference/tournament and has failed to even make the NCAA tournament is more than a little ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[lefty]

if NCAA appearances or NCAA wins are the criteria for putting an MVC coach on the hot seat, then it's gonna get crowded there...

C'mon T...you only quoted me halfway...I said no NCAA and no better than 4th in the Valley

JL does fine....I'm wondering where the line is....that's all. Are we capable of doing better? I don't know. If we do this the next 3 years...20 wins,no NCAA and no better than 4th place finish in the Valley...is that acceptable?

 

[squirrelgotdead]

Why should the Sweet 16 "expire"? Is that not a great success? I guess if we won the Valley and/or Valley tournament three years ago, that would not count either?.

Nobody says the Sweet 16 should expire. The question is when does the benefit from that expire.

If there were other accomplishments to go along with that NCAA run, then it would be less of an issue. But to date it is the only tangible accomplishment with JL as coach.

Sure there are big wins, nice runs, and other shiny things like postseason berths.

After basically building his program from scratch, JL built a Sweet 16 team that underachieved (granted, shorthanded due to suspensions) most of the regular season and overachieved in the postseason.

It was the byproduct of building towards that. That should also be an indicator of direction. You also expect to see some sort of benefit or boost from the Sweet 16 run. Since most of the recruiting for that season was already done, you have to apply a five-year window to see what that appearance bought you.

The yearly successes have been in steady decline since 2006. This is year 4 in that 5 year window.

 

[BUFAN]

I believe a trip to the Sweet 16 should count as winning "something" since there are very few Valley teams that have accomplished that feat in the last seven years.



I'll simply disagree.



Again, see 2006. I'm pretty sure if you would ask anyone on the team/staff or involved with the program, they would tell you they won "something" that year.



I believe we would be in trouble if we simplify things to the point of comparing ourselves to one Valley team. Maybe we should start scheduling like them too? No thanks! If your goal is to "win something", tell me how isu has had more success winning the MVC season/tourney and not making any NCAA appearances since JL has been here.



I have personally never cared one bit for ANY of the preseason "picks" and "lists". The coaches in the Valley can't even "pick" it right! I'll wait and see the results on the floor. As someone once said....."That's why they play the game."

If one sweet 16 appearence in my coaching tenior was all I had to crow about I would not crow. If BU had not paid for home games against less than steller foes the BU 20 game win streak would have ended at 2. I don't see it being extended this year though, hope i'm wrong...

 

[shaunguth]

Nobody says the Sweet 16 should expire. The question is when does the benefit from that expire.

If there were other accomplishments to go along with that NCAA run, then it would be less of an issue. But to date it is the only tangible accomplishment with JL as coach.

Sure there are big wins, nice runs, and other shiny things like postseason berths.

After basically building his program from scratch, JL built a Sweet 16 team that underachieved (granted, shorthanded due to suspensions) most of the regular season and overachieved in the postseason.

It was the byproduct of building towards that. That should also be an indicator of direction. You also expect to see some sort of benefit or boost from the Sweet 16 run. Since most of the recruiting for that season was already done, you have to apply a five-year window to see what that appearance bought you.

The yearly successes have been in steady decline since 2006. This is year 4 in that 5 year window.

Wouldn't this be year 3 if most of the recruiting was already done for 2006-2007? So we've had two full seasons of post-Sweet 16 recruiting.

I just don't understand how someone can define success as winning the Valley season/tournament and then go on to say JL's days are somehow dependent on another Valley school that has done neither of those things AND hasn't even made an NCAA appearance in that same amount of time, not to mention getting to the Sweet 16.

Again, I guess JL would be a "success" if he managed to win the Valley one year and follow it up by finishing 8th and being picked to finish 8th the year after that? After all, he would have won the conference! :roll:

Also, when you get to the Sweet 16, your successes after that are bound to decline! Are we now expecting JL to take BU to the Elite 8, Final 4, and National Championship in the immediate years following 2006? After all, anything else would be a "decline".

 

[shaunguth]

If one sweet 16 appearence in my coaching tenior was all I had to crow about I would not crow.

OK......so just how many Valley coaches have taken their team to the Sweet 16 in their first four years of coaching? By that measure, no Valley coach has done anything to "crow about". I'm not sure how any of them keep their jobs at this rate.

 

[squirrelgotdead]

One regular season title doesn't make the guy a success either.

It's the body of work that's involved.

He's had basically 4 below average years capped with one outstanding accomplishment and 3 average-to-slightly-above average years capped with an NIT win over Providence in the first year (which is at best a marginally tangible accomplishment).

Both are passable. However at some point, we either need consistency at being above average which, by law of averages, will lead to more tangible accomplishments or just start winning championships. BU is long overdue with the latter.

After 7 years, I've seen enough to be happy with but lacking confidence in where the program's at and that we can get to a championship level. I understand there's those who are convinced inch by inch we're getting there. Both sides are potentially wrong.

The verdict is still out.

 

[tribecalledquest]

I don't think Jim Les is on the hot seat. However, he isn't Joanne Glasser's "guy" and I understand President's often want their own guys in those jobs. For better or worse, that's how it is.

My opinion is this--20 wins doesn't mean anything to me. It's a watered down number. So are "postseason appearances" and "postseason wins" outside of the NCAA and maybe the NIT.

There is one constant for coaches that is solid every year. It is the 18-game, round robin MVC regular season schedule. And then the league tournament. The other nine teams in the MVC are BU's peers. They are the ones that matter. You can schedule like ISU to get to "20 wins". Big deal.

For me, the league is where its at. Jim Les has struggled there. He is still under .500 for his career against his direct peers in the MVC. You would be hard-pressed to find coaches at high profile schools who get to hang around with losing league records after seven or eight seasons.

If other people like hanging their hats on CBI and CIT wins thats fine. Or "20 win" seasons thats fine. To me its best to look at the thing that never changes--the MVC games/opponents, etc. Bradley has been average at best there in the last 7-10 years.

I think its OK to expect improvement there.

 

[squirrelgotdead]

OK......so just how many Valley coaches have taken their team to the Sweet 16 in their first four years of coaching? By that measure, no Valley coach has done anything to "crow about". I'm not sure how any of them keep their jobs at this rate.

In the last 15 years:

Tubby Smith did 2 times in 4 years at Tulsa.
Steve Alford did in year 4 at MSU (then SMS).
Bruce Weber did in year 4 at SIU.

Pretty exclusive company, but not unique.

 

[squirrelgotdead]

I don't think Jim Les is on the hot seat. However, he isn't Joanne Glasser's "guy" and I understand President's often want their own guys in those jobs. For better or worse, that's how it is.

My opinion is this--20 wins doesn't mean anything to me. It's a watered down number. So are "postseason appearances" and "postseason wins" outside of the NCAA and maybe the NIT.

There is one constant for coaches that is solid every year. It is the 18-game, round robin MVC regular season schedule. And then the league tournament. The other nine teams in the MVC are BU's peers. They are the ones that matter. You can schedule like ISU to get to "20 wins". Big deal.

For me, the league is where its at. Jim Les has struggled there. He is still under .500 for his career against his direct peers in the MVC. You would be hard-pressed to find coaches at high profile schools who get to hang around with losing league records after seven or eight seasons.

If other people like hanging their hats on CBI and CIT wins thats fine. Or "20 win" seasons thats fine. To me its best to look at the thing that never changes--the MVC games/opponents, etc. Bradley has been average at best there in the last 7-10 years.

I think its OK to expect improvement there.

Excellent points. Right now, we need to be able to start winning more consistently against UNI, CU, and ISU. They are arguably the top 3 teams in the league the last two years, and the reason for that is because UNI has owned us, the fourth place regular.

IMO, up until the last two years, we had dominated ISU. They have been 2nd place two years running and now we've split with them.

UNI we have been better than and just continue to get beat (without looking it up we've lost 6 of 8 or something to them).

CU we go back and forth on who may be on paper better, but two years ago, we were clearly the superior team between the two and got beat 2 out of 3.

Is that the coaching? I don't truthfully know, but until a light turns on against those 3 I don't see anything changing in our standing against our peers.

 

[tornado]

You would be hard-pressed to find coaches at high profile schools who get to hang around with losing league records after seven or eight seasons.....

First, Jim Les has not had a losing Valley record since 2004-2005..

and..

Depends on what you call high profile...I am not hard pressed to find 'em...
Maryland - Gary Williams 62-64 over past SEVEN seasons vs. ACC opponents
Northwestern - Bill Carmody - never once in 9 years has he had a winning league record or NCAA appearance
UIC - Jimmy Collins...hasn't had a winning league record since 2004 and only 4 of his 13 seasons had BOTH a winning overall record and a winning league record...but has stayed there for 13 years!!

 

[jeffsu]

In the last 15 years:

Tubby Smith did 2 times in 4 years at Tulsa.
Steve Alford did in year 4 at MSU (then SMS).
Bruce Weber did in year 4 at SIU.

Pretty exclusive company, but not unique.

And wouldn't you love to have a coach like one of those guys for the most part?? They're generally great coaches (in the grand scheme of things) and I'm proud that Jim Les is on that list. GOOD WORK JIM!

 

[squirrelgotdead]

(music playing) One of these kids is doing his own thing. . . (end music)

Yes, I would LOVE to have a coach like one of those other guys on the list because they have in addition to that accomplishment:

1) Repeated the task of getting to the Sweet 16 or even further
2) Won a conference championship

JL has neither.

 

[tornado]

Note to Joe (mayhem..)
I have been told there was some suggestion that you were "told" not to post your stuff on "other boards".
Would you please clarify that you have never been told any such thing by anyone on this board and that you don't post where the atmosphere seems unwelcoming...

 

[SFP]

This JL thing has much to do about nothing. He's our guy like it or not. I'm not sure we could anyone better. There are a bunch of the grass is always greener on this site. :mrgreen:

 

[shaunguth]

This JL thing has much to do about nothing. He's our guy like it or not. I'm not sure we could anyone better. There are a bunch of the grass is always greener on this site. :mrgreen:

Oh....that's silly......of course someone else would've had multiple conference/tournament titles as well as a Sweet 16 run. I'm sure they also would have gotten to the Elite 8 and further by now, as to not "decline" after the Sweet 16 run. :roll: