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A-Rod
- Thread starter Scouter
- Start date
I still don't really know why we even want to look. It's clear steroids became a problem... And I can't see any logical way that most Major Leaguers weren't using steroids in some capacity. It's something that baseball clearly turned a blind eye to, so shame on them. Even worse, the player's union, which is theoretically there to protect the players, had to know and did nothing. I don't get as worked up about the players, because they don't really have a choice if baseball was allowing it to go on-- it's not really cheating if everyone's getting the same edge.
It's just another era in baseball. Things change in baseball all the time... We were in the steroids era, now we're emerging from it. People talk about tainted records and what not, but Gibson's absurd 1968 season and its 1.12 ERA very obviously benefitted from the raised mound in use in the second half of the 60s. People note the ability to compare stats from different eras one of the appeals of baseball should note that statistical efforts to eliminate the trends in different years turn that ERA into a still very good, but not quite ridiculous 2.90 ERA. Anyway, that argument is basically flawed because the game has changed a lot since the 1880s, and continues to change today. It's next to impossible that anyone will win as many games over their career as Cy Young. A more recent but also probably never-to-be-eclipsed figure is Rickey Henderson's stolen base total.
Got a bit off track there, but either way, the villains, as far as I'm concerned, in the steroid era are the owners and the union (they've been villains before)... The players were just playing the game as it was played in that era. Barry Bonds was always a great player, and steroids didn't give him incredible plate discipline. They may have indeed allowed him to play much longer. A-Rod is an amazing talent, steroids or no. Everyone fixates on home runs in the roid era, but I'm much more interested in how long certain stars were able to keep it up. Randy Johnson could just be a durability freak, or he could also be a roid-enhanced freak. I don't know the answer to that, and at this point I don't really care. Clean up the game, get the roids out, and move on.
It's just another era in baseball. Things change in baseball all the time... We were in the steroids era, now we're emerging from it. People talk about tainted records and what not, but Gibson's absurd 1968 season and its 1.12 ERA very obviously benefitted from the raised mound in use in the second half of the 60s. People note the ability to compare stats from different eras one of the appeals of baseball should note that statistical efforts to eliminate the trends in different years turn that ERA into a still very good, but not quite ridiculous 2.90 ERA. Anyway, that argument is basically flawed because the game has changed a lot since the 1880s, and continues to change today. It's next to impossible that anyone will win as many games over their career as Cy Young. A more recent but also probably never-to-be-eclipsed figure is Rickey Henderson's stolen base total.
Got a bit off track there, but either way, the villains, as far as I'm concerned, in the steroid era are the owners and the union (they've been villains before)... The players were just playing the game as it was played in that era. Barry Bonds was always a great player, and steroids didn't give him incredible plate discipline. They may have indeed allowed him to play much longer. A-Rod is an amazing talent, steroids or no. Everyone fixates on home runs in the roid era, but I'm much more interested in how long certain stars were able to keep it up. Randy Johnson could just be a durability freak, or he could also be a roid-enhanced freak. I don't know the answer to that, and at this point I don't really care. Clean up the game, get the roids out, and move on.
AROD admits to using steroids....
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29068677/
A couple of quotes from AROD
“When I arrived in Texas in 2001, I felt an enormous amount of pressure. I felt like I had all the weight of the world on top of me and I needed to perform, and perform at a high level every day,” the New York Yankees star said in an interview with ESPN that was broadcast Monday shortly after it was recorded"
“Back then it was a different culture. It was very loose. I was young. I was stupid,” he said. “I was naive, and I wanted to prove to everyone that, you know, I was worth, you know — and being one of the greatest players of all time.”
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29068677/
A couple of quotes from AROD
“When I arrived in Texas in 2001, I felt an enormous amount of pressure. I felt like I had all the weight of the world on top of me and I needed to perform, and perform at a high level every day,” the New York Yankees star said in an interview with ESPN that was broadcast Monday shortly after it was recorded"
“Back then it was a different culture. It was very loose. I was young. I was stupid,” he said. “I was naive, and I wanted to prove to everyone that, you know, I was worth, you know — and being one of the greatest players of all time.”
As much as I hate to say it as I dont like the guy, but this vindicates Jose Canseco further.
At least Cansaco is man enough to admit that he used.
Edited....
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houstontxbrave
New member
To me the bottom line is in the late 90's and early 00's is everyone was doing something to get ahead. Personally I think all the player from that era are guilty, I dont believe one of them who says he didnt do something.
But baseball players will do pretty much anything to get ahead, I really do not blame the players. They are fighting for what 800 of some of the highest paid jobs on this planet, they have to do what they have to do to get ahead.
But this all lays at the feet of Selig, the Unions and the Owners. They all saw HUGE fan interest in all the home runs and they had to do something to generate public interest both in attendance but more importantly in eyeballs on the TV to generate money.
I do not care what any owner or Union person from that era tries to say or spin this but they knew exactly what was happening... a guy.. Brady Anderson does not go from 210 to 240 all muscle in the off season without someone having to question why. Baseball ignored it and they ignored it because all anyone could do was talk about McGwire and Sosa and all the home runs the sport was producing. Remember they tried to spin this that the balls were juiced... ya right everyone on that field for several years was juiced.
And baseball allowed it and did not care. And the ones who now are taking the hits are the players, baseball knew these guys because they were competitors would do anything to get ahead. Baseball in my opinion is simply hanging the players out to dry. Baseball continues on making money and the players who fall because of the "steriod" well thats the players problem.
The whole sport will never be the same and honestly is not far removed from Professional Wrestling.
I think that baseball deserves the guilt and it would not in the least surprise me that baseball planted steroids in clubhouses to kick start the sport... conspiracy theory to say the least but I do not think its that far fetched.
But baseball players will do pretty much anything to get ahead, I really do not blame the players. They are fighting for what 800 of some of the highest paid jobs on this planet, they have to do what they have to do to get ahead.
But this all lays at the feet of Selig, the Unions and the Owners. They all saw HUGE fan interest in all the home runs and they had to do something to generate public interest both in attendance but more importantly in eyeballs on the TV to generate money.
I do not care what any owner or Union person from that era tries to say or spin this but they knew exactly what was happening... a guy.. Brady Anderson does not go from 210 to 240 all muscle in the off season without someone having to question why. Baseball ignored it and they ignored it because all anyone could do was talk about McGwire and Sosa and all the home runs the sport was producing. Remember they tried to spin this that the balls were juiced... ya right everyone on that field for several years was juiced.
And baseball allowed it and did not care. And the ones who now are taking the hits are the players, baseball knew these guys because they were competitors would do anything to get ahead. Baseball in my opinion is simply hanging the players out to dry. Baseball continues on making money and the players who fall because of the "steriod" well thats the players problem.
The whole sport will never be the same and honestly is not far removed from Professional Wrestling.
I think that baseball deserves the guilt and it would not in the least surprise me that baseball planted steroids in clubhouses to kick start the sport... conspiracy theory to say the least but I do not think its that far fetched.
At least he's man enough to admit that he used.
THIS TIME! He didn't last time he was interviewed. Blatant liar.
Makes me dislike baseball even more than I already did.
At least he's man enough to admit that he used.
THIS TIME! He didn't last time he was interviewed. Blatant liar.
Makes me dislike baseball even more than I already did.
I am not sure which player you are talking about, but Murph was responding to my post about Jose Canseco. IMO Canseco has been in the forefront with this steroid mess with his book etc... (and taking steroids for that matter) Of course there is no doubt that Canseco's books were about making money for Jose.
With news like this, you have to wonder how many people actually used steroids in baseball in the last 20 years. I would venture to guess that over half of the players may have been taking some sort of substance to increase their performance.
I despise Alex Rodriguez, and I have since his early days, but it takes a man to come forward and admit something like that. I don't recall anyone coming clean when accused like he did during the Mitchell Report, and I can only hope that other players might follow the example of a player of that calibur and come forward with the truth.
I despise Alex Rodriguez, and I have since his early days, but it takes a man to come forward and admit something like that. I don't recall anyone coming clean when accused like he did during the Mitchell Report, and I can only hope that other players might follow the example of a player of that calibur and come forward with the truth.
houstontxbrave
New member
With news like this, you have to wonder how many people actually used steroids in baseball in the last 20 years. I would venture to guess that over half of the players may have been taking some sort of substance to increase their performance.
I despise Alex Rodriguez, and I have since his early days, but it takes a man to come forward and admit something like that. I don't recall anyone coming clean when accused like he did during the Mitchell Report, and I can only hope that other players might follow the example of a player of that calibur and come forward with the truth.
Does it take a man to on national TV deny any use of steroids on 60 minutes, then when he has been outed by a positive test he then admits to the usage?
Seems pretty childish to me.
Does it take a man to on national TV deny any use of steroids on 60 minutes, then when he has been outed by a positive test he then admits to the usage?
Seems pretty childish to me.
Paging Roger Clemens..... Paging Roger Clemens....
Well the Rocket did "misremember." :mrgreen:
bluedevils1
New member
Next three people to test positive - LeBron James, Jimmie Johnson, and Tiger Woods.
bluedevils1
New member
To me the bottom line is in the late 90's and early 00's is everyone was doing something to get ahead. Personally I think all the player from that era are guilty, I dont believe one of them who says he didnt do something.
But baseball players will do pretty much anything to get ahead, I really do not blame the players. They are fighting for what 800 of some of the highest paid jobs on this planet, they have to do what they have to do to get ahead.
But this all lays at the feet of Selig, the Unions and the Owners. They all saw HUGE fan interest in all the home runs and they had to do something to generate public interest both in attendance but more importantly in eyeballs on the TV to generate money.
I do not care what any owner or Union person from that era tries to say or spin this but they knew exactly what was happening... a guy.. Brady Anderson does not go from 210 to 240 all muscle in the off season without someone having to question why. Baseball ignored it and they ignored it because all anyone could do was talk about McGwire and Sosa and all the home runs the sport was producing. Remember they tried to spin this that the balls were juiced... ya right everyone on that field for several years was juiced.
And baseball allowed it and did not care. And the ones who now are taking the hits are the players, baseball knew these guys because they were competitors would do anything to get ahead. Baseball in my opinion is simply hanging the players out to dry. Baseball continues on making money and the players who fall because of the "steriod" well thats the players problem.
The whole sport will never be the same and honestly is not far removed from Professional Wrestling.
I think that baseball deserves the guilt and it would not in the least surprise me that baseball planted steroids in clubhouses to kick start the sport... conspiracy theory to say the least but I do not think its that far fetched.
Amen, except I think there will still be legitimate fan interest. I will still root for the Cardinals and watch every game.
Also, speaking of Brady Anderson, is there any worse player in MLB history to hit 50 HR in a season?
Amen, except I think there will still be legitimate fan interest. I will still root for the Cardinals and watch every game.
Also, speaking of Brady Anderson, is there any worse player in MLB history to hit 50 HR in a season?
Greg Vaughn comes close.
It's scary and sad
but really, is there much that can be done?
my theory is to just put the axe on nearly EVERYTHING. Just start fresh
yea it sucks, yea the records suck, but we hsould expose baseball and just make people tough again, go back to the good ole days when a hotdog and cigar were your performance enhancing drugs!
ie, Lou Gehrig, shoeless Joe, cal ripkin
but really, is there much that can be done?
my theory is to just put the axe on nearly EVERYTHING. Just start fresh
yea it sucks, yea the records suck, but we hsould expose baseball and just make people tough again, go back to the good ole days when a hotdog and cigar were your performance enhancing drugs!
ie, Lou Gehrig, shoeless Joe, cal ripkin
Funny--
a few years ago when I said on another message board that many if not most of the top baseball players are using steroids...I was laughed at and scolded for such talk.
Some Cardinal fans still won't accept the fact that pimple faced Mark McGwire used steroids while setting all his records.
Steroids is why I no longer have any interest in baseball.
I bet Mickey Mantle, Stan Musial, Ernie Banks and Hank Aaron never used steroids.
discovering that ARod was using steroids is like discovering that Michael Jackson
has had his facial appearance altered with plastic surgery....duh....
Talk about cheap shots.
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houstontxbrave
New member
"I will say it again.........watch any highlight reel from 25 years ago and see how even the biggest and strongest guys in baseball were mere twigs compared to the bodies we see today."
I know no one in Peoria wants to think about it but take a long look at Thome when he was with Cleveland in the early to mid 90's, sometimes classic runs the no hitter Abbott threw v Cleveland, and the Thome of the Cleveland World Series and even into his late years with Cleveland and with Philadelphia. He was thin and then he became this huge physical man.
He has to be lumped in with everyone and sorry but he has to be assumed guilty.
Look the bottom line is that baseball players, every last one of them, lost the assumption of innocence a long time ago. They are all guilty regardless of what they want to tell you. Grown men, who are professional athletes do not put on huge amounts of muscle, have their feet grow or have their heads grow without something foreign being used to assist.
I know no one in Peoria wants to think about it but take a long look at Thome when he was with Cleveland in the early to mid 90's, sometimes classic runs the no hitter Abbott threw v Cleveland, and the Thome of the Cleveland World Series and even into his late years with Cleveland and with Philadelphia. He was thin and then he became this huge physical man.
He has to be lumped in with everyone and sorry but he has to be assumed guilty.
Look the bottom line is that baseball players, every last one of them, lost the assumption of innocence a long time ago. They are all guilty regardless of what they want to tell you. Grown men, who are professional athletes do not put on huge amounts of muscle, have their feet grow or have their heads grow without something foreign being used to assist.