• Welcome to BradleyFans.com! Visitors are welcome, but we encourage you to sign up and register as a member. It's free and takes only a few seconds. Just click on the link to Register at the top right of the page, and follow instructions. If you have any problems or questions, click on the link at the bottom right of the page to Contact Us.

Another campus shooting at Virginia Tech

well - I didn't know where to place this comment but it has a bit to do with the shooters who have been responsible for so many of the attacks recently...
campus shootings at Virginia Tech, NIU, theater shooting in Colorado, the shooting of Gabby Giffords, Columbine, Dawson shooter, and also this most current mall shooting in Oregon...plus many, many other similar attacks...

I guess I am stunned that the talking heads on TV are saying things like...

-this is unprecedented
-we need to find out what motivates the guy this is so unusual
-we've never seen anything like this...
etc...

I guess I am totally stumped how the experts - even the psycho-talkers on TV do not see how incredibly similar all these shooters are...

all are young males, all have some prior emotional problems and some psychiatric issues, they are social misfits, mostly trend towards being loners, all seem to have recently had a breakup with a girlfriend, or lost their jobs or been evicted...
plus all are drinkers, use drugs, have Facebook pages where they spout BS about how important they are when in fact they are not and they obviously know it...

not that any of these things could be used as a screen since all are common factors but I find it interesting that so many of the shooters are so similar...

but despite efforts by jerks like Brian Roberts on ABC to link deranged shooters like this to the Tea party - the odd thing is that NONE of them seem to be linked to any particular movement, group, or party...although the largest majority of them are middle income, do drugs and alcohol, live a fantasy life thinking they are more important than they actually are, most recently broke up with a girlfriend, and many do have slightly left-of-center leanings...

But there's millions like this and I doubt we'll ever stop them - all the gun laws in the world won't work
 
tornado said:
well - I didn't know where to place this comment but it has a bit to do with the shooters who have been responsible for so many of the attacks recently...
campus shootings at Virginia Tech, NIU, theater shooting in Colorado, the shooting of Gabby Giffords, Columbine, Dawson shooter, and also this most current mall shooting in Oregon...plus many, many other similar attacks...

I guess I am stunned that the talking heads on TV are saying things like...

-this is unprecedented
-we need to find out what motivates the guy this is so unusual
-we've never seen anything like this...
etc...

I guess I am totally stumped how the experts - even the psycho-talkers on TV do not see how incredibly similar all these shooters are...

all are young males, all have some prior emotional problems and some psychiatric issues, they are social misfits, mostly trend towards being loners, all seem to have recently had a breakup with a girlfriend, or lost their jobs or been evicted...
plus all are drinkers, use drugs, have Facebook pages where they spout BS about how important they are when in fact they are not and they obviously know it...

not that any of these things could be used as a screen since all are common factors but I find it interesting that so many of the shooters are so similar...

but despite efforts by jerks like Brian Roberts on ABC to link deranged shooters like this to the Tea party - the odd thing is that NONE of them seem to be linked to any particular movement, group, or party...although the largest majority of them are middle income, do drugs and alcohol, live a fantasy life thinking they are more important than they actually are, most recently broke up with a girlfriend, and many do have slightly left-of-center leanings...

But there's millions like this and I doubt we'll ever stop them - all the gun laws in the world won't work
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say...Especially the left-of-center leanings??? I've never seen anyone categorize these individuals political affiliation. Now take into consideration home grown terrorists (Timothy Mc Veigh) well that is complete right of center.

What these guys have in common is a complete disconnect to society. Perhaps another home grown terrorist albeit a little to far out there may have been correct in his manifesto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski). He did warn us about these outcomes and how technology is a culprit. How many people are living in their own virtual reality and cannot distinguish what they do and see online to reality! We always had individuals that were not emotionally stable but the trigger could be perhaps explained through a technical disconnect that leads to a warped sense of reality. Left or right political leaning have nothing to do with these emotional disturbed individuals.
 
SFP said:
... I've never seen anyone categorize these individuals political affiliation.....
Click to expand...

what?? You haven't??
every one of these wackos that shoots up a mall, a campus, a theater or whatever is immediately scrutinized by certain media people and immediately characterized as being right wingers and Tea Partiers...and blame the conservatives and anti-gun control sentiment...when in fact they are wrong and then they never report the liberal connections.

first - I never said all wackos are liberal but among most of these recent public rampage shootings in malls, theaters, etc....MOST are guys with few or little political leanings but leanings there are clearly are NOT Tea Party or conservative.
Sure I know about McVeigh...but I don't have to go back EIGHTEEN YEARS to find an example of a guy with liberal leanings going wacko against a society of innocent bystanders.

This tendency to instantly try to blame the conservatives and Tea Party for these shootings happens instantly after every one of these incidents...

-after the Arizona shooting by Jared Laughner - media folks claimed the guy was heeding the statements & guidance of Sarah Palin he had been listening and responding to right wing talk..
http://www.examiner.com/article/did...s-map-influence-tucson-shooting-your-thoughts

-after the Colorado theater shooting there was the massive stupidity of a key msnbc correspondent who instantly claimed the shooter was an angry, misguided Tea Partier
http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-shooters-tea-party-connection-daniel-foster#
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2012/07/21...holmes-linked-to-colorado-tea-party-patriots/

-almost every other one of these incidents was blamed on conservative talk radio, Rush Limbaugh, right wing ideology, and hate/racism among conservatives...
http://www.examiner.com/article/wisconsin-shooter-identified-liberals-blame-bachmann-talk-radio
http://www.vigile.net/Jan-Wong-was-misguided-maybe-But
http://redalertpolitics.com/2012/07/20/tea-party-unfairly-implicated-in-colorado-theater-shooting/


Maybe you didn't see this but even in one of the shooting/rampage incidents that WAS COMMITTED by a left wing, liberal guy who hated conservatives and opposed their ideology...the media STILL tried like crazy to pin it on the Tea Party and other conservatives when the shooter was CLEARLY a wacked out leftist who hated Chick-fil-A and Christians and who wanted to kill them.
The media completely denied to obvious that this was a HATE CRIME coming from the left.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2921107/posts
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-08-21/news/33307284_1_gay-marriage-gay-rights-gay-couples

I thought my point was plain & obvious - almost every one of these mall/theater/public rampage shooters does have a whole lot in common...and I made the politics only a small part of it ...
Most are males, misfits, guys with few or no girlfriends/wives or any other strong relationships, most have shown they are unable to keep jobs, stay in school, or conduct themselves in common everyday fashion..
and I stand by my statement that despite failed efforts by the liberal media to hunt down even the tiniest connection to the Tea Party or any other conservative link - that in the end when all is known - almost all of them - and we're not talking 2 or 3 of them but 20 of them, are young drug & alcohol users who, if they have political leanings are left of center.
If you want to go back years then even the Jeffrey Dahmers, John Wayne Gacy's, Ted Kaczynskis, all the "going postal" shooters (there's dozens of them), the welfare shooters, and many more were overtly liberal...
I believe the facts as they exist speak for themselves.


If McVeigh is all you have then it's 50 to 1 and most of the "home grown terrorists" are NOT conservatives but Muslims
living out some perceived hatred against any race or ideology that isn't their own.
 
I'm not going to argue with you about the media or perception of these misguided unconnected souls political bent. I just do not see politics as a strong variable or one at all of why these guys went off in the deep end. There's a strong relationship though with the advent of certain technologies and these rampages. It's the same correlation you are seeing with young people committing suicide. There's a growing disconnect between humans and humans are programmed/wired to be social. Babies that are touched and hugged more have a greater chance of succeeding. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=infant-touch.
Everyone of these guys has had a facebook page and I'm sure certain common other variables that have nothing to do with religion or politics.

I could have just as well T, pointed out some right wing anti-abortion religious nut but in reality that is a total other case that has nothing to do with these delusional sick guys.
 
and I agree it's all open to speculation why these guys do this..but I think it's because we have so much more of a broad entitlement sense in society..
everyone is fed this idea that they are guaranteed happiness and satisfaction with their lot in life and if they don't get rich by age 25, then the government will help...
but when their perceived "stimulus" or "handout" fails to arrive - they get mad, go ballistic, or go "postal" - -

you have to admit there is no such phrase as "go hospital" or "go Caterpillar"...just "go postal" -- and I am not saying the perps are all postal people but a lot have trouble keeping jobs and are upset with corporate America....
it seems to happen far more in situations where there's a feeling by the gunmen that they are entitled to more and they're getting cheated in life and that society as a whole is the culprit and they need to be punished.
 
SFP said:
I'm not going to argue with you about the media or perception of these misguided unconnected souls political bent. I just do not see politics as a strong variable or one at all of why these guys went off in the deep end. There's a strong relationship though with the advent of certain technologies and these rampages. It's the same correlation you are seeing with young people committing suicide. There's a growing disconnect between humans and humans are programmed/wired to be social. Babies that are touched and hugged more have a greater chance of succeeding. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=infant-touch.
Everyone of these guys has had a facebook page and I'm sure certain common other variables that have nothing to do with religion or politics.

I could have just as well T, pointed out some right wing anti-abortion religious nut but in reality that is a total other case that has nothing to do with these delusional sick guys.
Click to expand...

There were plenty in the media during the last shooting in the Colorado movie theatre last year that brought up the Tea Party, literally minutes after the story broke. This was tied in with the everlasting gun control debate as the Tea Party is of course for less restrictions on guns. There is a Chicago news station at this second where they are talking about how easy it was for today's shooters to obtain guns. So if anyone is making a political issue out of this, it's the media.
 
SFP - there are a few of these guys who are right wingers and anti-abortion I don't deny it.....but only a few.....and they target abortion clinics mostly - only one I am aware of - 16 years ago & two died - ever targeted a common group of people...and of course there's McVeigh...but in between there have been dozens of the guys who were pot smoking folks far from the right end of the political spectrum... ** ** ** and same for the Columbine, Dawson, Va Tech, NIU shooters..

If anything - most of them are aimless and not too involved in anything - social dropouts & misfits but largely with an entitlement philosophy expecting a better life to be given them..jealous of the success others have and bitter because they are such personal failures.
 
tornado said:
but marijuana does change people's brains and can alter intelligence permanently - if hamburgers did this - they would be banned not legalized...
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=264400&postcount=1
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue with you the physical damage that pot does to someone but if you are an adult and are not hurting anyone then why should they fear arrest? Cigarettes and alcohol damage the body as well. The percent of people that have tried and use pot is such that keeping it illegal makes very little sense. It needs to be regulated and taxed where the money is used for rehab and drug education programs. Lets just keep throwing pot smokers into jail and keeping gangs flush with cash?

Its funny the same people who complain about a nanny state are the same people who want the government to interfere with other aspects of their life.
 
SFP said:
I'm not going to argue with you the physical damage that pot does to someone but if you are an adult and are not hurting anyone then why should they fear arrest? Cigarettes and alcohol damage the body as well. The percent of people that have tried and use pot is such that keeping it illegal makes very little sense. It needs to be regulated and taxed where the money is used for rehab and drug education programs. Lets just keep throwing pot smokers into jail and keeping gangs flush with cash?

Its funny the same people who complain about a nanny state are the same people who want the government to interfere with other aspects of their life.
Click to expand...

Ha ha! I find this really ironic that we should tax people's purchase of a drug (legal or not) to use the money for drug rehab and education programs! But that's another topic for another day.

But I'm sorry, I have to add to the pot debate since this is a very hot button issue for me. As tornado stated, pot is a much more dangerous drug than most people make it out to be, and this is not an example of where the governement should stay out of our lives. The reason very simply is because people using pot effects EVERYBODY.

I don't care if the media does their job or not in informing people of how dangerous pot is (well I do, but that won't stop me from stating facts). The facts are there, and how the media handles the issue won't change the facts. Pot is an extremely dangerous drug that is made dangerous by the way damage to the body and mind occurs during use. It is done in a way where the damage, especially early on, is hidden. It destroys from within, and only later on are the outward symptoms apparent. Using tornado's sources, I personally would find pot a far more dangerous substance than alcohol and cigerattes (the latter which has no effect mentally on a person). Yes, when someone drives drunk, that's an obvious danger that should spur people to act for harsher laws when someone drives drunk (perhaps one strike at the most before a one year suspension of a driver's license, and only if the drunk driver doesn't kill anyone first!). But it's the hidden danger from pot that forms my opinion that anyone smoking pot has no business behind a wheel either. If one drops 20 percent in intelligence just from smoking pot twice a week without even a chance for recovery later in life (something even alcohol can't do outside of the short term danger of driving drunk), can you imagine what can happen if the pot impaired driver has to make a spur of the moment decision on the road? Yes, maybe pot smokers tend to be more "relaxed" and "love" everyone, but that does not mean they aren't impaired and can't be a hazard out in public.

And even more important with regards to this drug, pot serves as a gateway drug to harder drugs for many people that just start out with the pot. No, not all pot smokers graduate to crack or worse, but that doesn't mean they can't fry their brain pretty quickly. In addition to being a hazard to others, pot users become less productive members of society, and the government really needs to bail them out with more benefits when some of the pot smokers become so fried they can't even hold a job!

I don't know. Maybe I'm lucky to have had great parents that scared the living daylights out of me in regards to the dangers of drugs and the overconsumption of alcohol. But what I do know is that I want no part of even trying any of these drugs for the rest of my life!
 
Bravesfan your opinion is fine but I know some very successful pot smoking individuals. I should put really successful pot smoking individuals. It is their choice and why should the government dictate it? There are also medicinal value in the drug. Anything you abuse you can find danger and are we going to outlaw alcohol? We know how that went. On taking taxes out to pay for rehab and education what's wrong with that? We are doing the same thing with cigarettes and it takes money out of the criminal element within our society. I'm a complete social libertarian and would like to see government interference minimized.

On the subject manner at hand I believe these events are not going to stop but become more prevalent in our society. The biggest reason as you stated has nothing to do with gun control but the break down of our communities and how we are connecting with each other. The destruction of Main Street is not going to help!
 
SFP said:
Its funny the same people who complain about a nanny state are the same people who want the government to interfere with other aspects of their life.
Click to expand...
one of the main purposes of our government - like it or not - is spelled out in the very first few lines of our Constitution..
"to provide for the common defense"
..and this has been widely agreed can mean to outlaw those substances, items, and products that are dangerous & harmful - thus even Claritin-D can be banned from the shelves because people can be harmed by it...
Thus - the government DOES NOT have anywhere in the Constitution to lay claim to telling me what brand of or tank-sized toilet I can buy (but they do) -
BUT - they do and should control or ban drugs that are dangerous ..it's done all the time - you can't just go the the drug store and buy morphine...
 
SFP said:
Bravesfan your opinion is fine but I know some very successful pot smoking individuals. I should put really successful pot smoking individuals. It is their choice and why should the government dictate it? There are also medicinal value in the drug. Anything you abuse you can find danger and are we going to outlaw alcohol? We know how that went. On taking taxes out to pay for rehab and education what's wrong with that? We are doing the same thing with cigarettes and it takes money out of the criminal element within our society. I'm a complete social libertarian and would like to see government interference minimized.

On the subject manner at hand I believe these events are not going to stop but become more prevalent in our society. The biggest reason as you stated has nothing to do with gun control but the break down of our communities and how we are connecting with each other. The destruction of Main Street is not going to help!
Click to expand...

Hey, I agree with you 100% on minimal government. When that crazy mayor of New York City bans sodas over 16 ounces, you know that our government has completely lost its way. That said though, drugs and other dangerous substances are a completely different animal, and there are reasons why there are laws against legalizing drugs.

In my opinion, minimum government does not meaning giving our government complete cart blanche to legalize everything. Any free society has to have some limits, but putting limits on certain things does not mean we are heading towards a totalarian government either. Unfortunately, when our government does come up with some common sense limitations, there always seems to exist the same group of people who cry and moan that our liberties are at risk. When it comes to banning drugs, that couldn't be further from the truth. However, I do fear we are headed in that direction when it comes to "substances" that do not harm other people, as in the case of this outrageous soda ban in New York.

That aside though, regarding pot, I did not mean to imply SFP that everyone who smokes it is not intelligent enough to do their job. And I also did not mean that everyone who smokes pot is an immediate danger to others while driving. That said though, I really hope your friends who use this stuff are aware of the dangers of using this drug, even if there are no visible signs of trouble. And even if someone who smokes pot is bright enough and alert enough to overcome "side effects" of the drug, that does not mean the damage isn't being done.

I am a conservative, but there is definitely a lot that I like about the libertarian philosophy of less government that the Republican party seems to have long abandoned. That said though, what is it about most libertarians and their belief in drug legalization?! I never understood that, and I think that one issue in particular is what has kept many more people from subscribing to that party and their platform. I'm all for freedom from the governement, but not allowing people to do anything they want without regards to others. Legalizing drugs (be it pot or anything worse) sure would infringe on my rights to a safe environment if they were allowed to be legalized.
 
I'm not going to fight for NORML but plain and simple the prohibition of pot is not working and all it is doing is costing tax payers a ton of money in enforcement, court system and jails. I'm not even going into the economics of wasted productivity of young men and women sent to jail. Further I believe the whole war on drugs is being fault incorrectly. Drug addiction is an illness just like alcoholics need intervention. With legalization we can then focus our attention on other more dangerous areas in our society and use the revenue that pot can create into the education of pot and other elicit drugs. Prohibition did not work for alcohol and it is not clearly working for pot. Bravesfan on your point of infringement of you safety I'd have to say the guns that the criminal elements can purchase with their pot revenue is a much bigger issue on your safety then your neighbor smoking a bong when he gets home from work.
 
SFP said:
I'm not going to fight for NORML but plain and simple the prohibition of pot is not working and all it is doing is costing tax payers a ton of money in enforcement, court system and jails. I'm not even going into the economics of wasted productivity of young men and women sent to jail. Further I believe the whole war on drugs is being fault incorrectly. Drug addiction is an illness just like alcoholics need intervention. With legalization we can then focus our attention on other more dangerous areas in our society and use the revenue that pot can create into the education of pot and other elicit drugs. Prohibition did not work for alcohol and it is not clearly working for pot. Bravesfan on your point of infringement of you safety I'd have to say the guns that the criminal elements can purchase with their pot revenue is a much bigger issue on your safety then your neighbor smoking a bong when he gets home from work.
Click to expand...

I agree about my safety regarding pot smokers versus criminals with guns. Criminals with guns are definitely the much bigger threat, though I don't think more gun control would have stopped that madman in Connecticut the other day. And I also agree that our jails are way to overcrowded and we probably would do a lot better than jailing someone everytime they go caught with drugs, illegal or not.

Tell you what, I'll meet you half way on this one SFP. Instead of arresting someone everytime they get caught using drugs, just give them a fine, akin to a traffic ticket, with maybe a course on the dangers of using that specific drug in the same fashion as traffic school.

You see, I'm willing to compromise. Something most of our politicians have completely forgotten how to do! :D
 
unfortunately there's barely time between these senseless acts to even grieve..
case in point - some bozo in Indiana with a stockpile of weapons that would make most nation's army jealous is threatening to shoot up a school in Indiana..
http://www.wthr.com/story/20356671/ind-man-with-47-guns-arrested-after-school-threat


anyone who owns guns - if they make a threat or if they allow unstable people into their homes - should have their weapons seized just like people who drive drunk lose their license...
nobody should be able to keep weapons in their home that fire 6 to 20 shots per second, and and if you want to buy 600 rounds of ammo - you have to go through at least as vigorous scrutiny and licensing as you do when you get married or enroll in college!
 
tornado said:
anyone who owns guns - if they make a threat or if they allow unstable people into their homes - should have their weapons seized just like people who drive drunk lose their license...
nobody should be able to keep weapons in their home that fire 6 to 20 shots per second, and and if you want to buy 600 rounds of ammo - you have to go through at least as vigorous scrutiny and licensing as you do when you get married or enroll in college!
Click to expand...

I had a conversation similar to this tonight with a fellow poster. So let me get this straight, are you in favor of more background checks etc for gun purchases and ammunition purchase in the future?

FYI, I have been a gun owner since my father purchased a 22 rifle for me when I was in seventh grade and I agree that more needs to be done to improve the gun culture in the US.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top