Lights down
New member
.... and yet, despite low attendance, that goofy Noise Meter rises into the red area! What a joke! Old attendance noise was deafening! We always thought that crowd noise created a three point home advantage.
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Attendance
- Thread starter brocks
- Start date
I have several issues with the way things have been going the past few years....
1) who made the decision to remove the stands behind the basket on the Bradley bench end? Looks horrible and may be hurting our shooting with nothing in the background!!!!!
2) the music and video for the starting lineup sucks! The crowd and players should be getting amped up at this point not falling asleep!
3) The in game promotions are a joke. What happened to someone shooting 3 shots from half court to give away season tickets?
4) why not bring the veterans out in the first half to get the crowd going? It seams to be the only time the crowd makes any noise! Maybe do it each half.
5) Why not try and get more high school groups or sports teams in to help fill in the seats?
6) does anyone try to get the Bradley students interested in the games? I remember when Jim Les was around, a lot more students attended. When Molinari was the there we had great student turnout.
Something needs to be done differently!!!!!!
1) who made the decision to remove the stands behind the basket on the Bradley bench end? Looks horrible and may be hurting our shooting with nothing in the background!!!!!
2) the music and video for the starting lineup sucks! The crowd and players should be getting amped up at this point not falling asleep!
3) The in game promotions are a joke. What happened to someone shooting 3 shots from half court to give away season tickets?
4) why not bring the veterans out in the first half to get the crowd going? It seams to be the only time the crowd makes any noise! Maybe do it each half.
5) Why not try and get more high school groups or sports teams in to help fill in the seats?
6) does anyone try to get the Bradley students interested in the games? I remember when Jim Les was around, a lot more students attended. When Molinari was the there we had great student turnout.
Something needs to be done differently!!!!!!
I sit near the visitor's bench. Last night in the first half, four women students moved from the student section (behind the backboard near the band) to occupy seats 4 rows behind the bench. Promptly, a civic center usher came down and instructed the young ladies to vacate those seats and return to the student section. Those seats remained empty. I understand the usher is doing his job as instructed, but it doesn't look or feel right to me.
Regarding the 6 pm Central Time weekday starts and the drop in attendance..
First - isn't the 6 pm weekday starts a "bigger than just Bradley issue" ?
I looked at other MVC team schedules (ISU, SIU, UNI) just as a quick sample and they too have 6 pm weekday starts.
Isn't this a MVC and ESPN and other tv network issues and it is these time slots that are being determined by these tv networks?
And a brief small sampling of other basketball conferences also seem to have the same weekday time start issue.
In addition to college basketball - I now live in Colorado and my daughters are CSU alums and CSU fans loudly complain about the late Friday night and Saturday night football games (as one example) as one example where the schools accept these time slots due to available tv coverage. How ESPN (and all the ESPN networks) and other sports networks divide their available coverage time slots I have no idea. But again - isn't the overall time start issue bigger than just Bradley and shouldn't all MVC schools discuss this matter with the MVC administration ?
As for attendance. If everyone is sharing that one reason for the light attendance is due to weekday start times. Does anyone know if other MVC basketball programs attendance are also suffering due to the same reasons ?
Bradley is still "smarting" from the J. Glasser and G. Ford era. As shown by Da Coach - average attendance for Geno's first year (2011) was 8,447 and final year (2015) was 5,726 - and Bradley has yet to recover. I do not know but has many of the season ticket owners for 2010 never renewed their season tickets. And I have no way to monitor the number of students attending each game - but I can only assume that it is also down. What ever happened to the fun times for students like "Molinari's Army" or wearing hair pieces like Dick Versace ? What would be a hoot (for example) is if all the attending students wore "black rim" glasses like Coach Wardle along with "red shoes" - or if the student came up with their own methods to have a great time.
I will admit that I am sadly disturb that after an incredible finish to last season the overall attendance (students and fans) is no where near what I would have hoped for so far this season. I attended Bradley during an era when for many games it was difficult to get a seat in the student section. Heck for many games it was difficult to get any seat in Robertson Memorial Stadium.
GO BRAVES !!!
First - isn't the 6 pm weekday starts a "bigger than just Bradley issue" ?
I looked at other MVC team schedules (ISU, SIU, UNI) just as a quick sample and they too have 6 pm weekday starts.
Isn't this a MVC and ESPN and other tv network issues and it is these time slots that are being determined by these tv networks?
And a brief small sampling of other basketball conferences also seem to have the same weekday time start issue.
In addition to college basketball - I now live in Colorado and my daughters are CSU alums and CSU fans loudly complain about the late Friday night and Saturday night football games (as one example) as one example where the schools accept these time slots due to available tv coverage. How ESPN (and all the ESPN networks) and other sports networks divide their available coverage time slots I have no idea. But again - isn't the overall time start issue bigger than just Bradley and shouldn't all MVC schools discuss this matter with the MVC administration ?
As for attendance. If everyone is sharing that one reason for the light attendance is due to weekday start times. Does anyone know if other MVC basketball programs attendance are also suffering due to the same reasons ?
Bradley is still "smarting" from the J. Glasser and G. Ford era. As shown by Da Coach - average attendance for Geno's first year (2011) was 8,447 and final year (2015) was 5,726 - and Bradley has yet to recover. I do not know but has many of the season ticket owners for 2010 never renewed their season tickets. And I have no way to monitor the number of students attending each game - but I can only assume that it is also down. What ever happened to the fun times for students like "Molinari's Army" or wearing hair pieces like Dick Versace ? What would be a hoot (for example) is if all the attending students wore "black rim" glasses like Coach Wardle along with "red shoes" - or if the student came up with their own methods to have a great time.
I will admit that I am sadly disturb that after an incredible finish to last season the overall attendance (students and fans) is no where near what I would have hoped for so far this season. I attended Bradley during an era when for many games it was difficult to get a seat in the student section. Heck for many games it was difficult to get any seat in Robertson Memorial Stadium.
GO BRAVES !!!
Yes, of course. I mentioned that. And the BU ticket people used that as an excuse last year when there was criticism of the low attendance in early games. And what happened? The 2018-19 year-end average attendance, despite a terrific season, end up the lowest in Bradley history since the team moved into the larger capacity Fieldhouse in 1949! Check the numbers above- the average attendance was 5,429. That is lower than any season on record! Yet believe it or not, there were Bradley people bragging about the attendance early last season.
There should still be concern with the low attendance numbers and the enormous number of no-shows and empty seats in the lower bowl, espcially with the success of Bradley over the last 2 seasons, and the high expectations this season.
Until the last few years, attendance numbers of 5000 or even 6000 or less were unheard of.
I just picked a couple old games as an example- a home game on Nov. 16, 2010 against Northern Illinois. This was an early-season game against a lower opponent, similar to our last couple games. Yet the attendance was 7,646.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sit.../17/723313.pdf
Here is a game on Nov. 24, 2010 against Eastern Illinois with attendance of 8,004-
https://bradleybraves.com/documents/.../25/724991.pdf
And then there is the famous "Snow Game" against Creighton on Feb. 1, 2011. Because of a massive snowfall, the game was moved up to 3:00 pm at late notice. Hardly anyone made it to the game (about 300 people were there). Yet the official attendance for that game was 8,009!
https://bradleybraves.com/news/2011/2/2/205088189.aspx
That is significant because it shows that season ticket sales must have been around 8,000 that year, just 9 seasons ago. And as I have mentioned before, Ken Kavanagh told me that season ticket sales peaked in 2009 at about 9,000.
Yet now we are seeing attendances of 4,600-4,800 indicating that season ticket sales are now about 4,000 or slightly above. I doubt you will find another D1 team with such a large percentage drop, approximately 50%, in the season ticket base in such a relatively short time span.
Last night's attendance was 4,813. We are seeing thousands fewer fans, despite the tremendous success of the program the last few years- 20 wins for the last 2 seasons, the first MVC Tournament Championship since 1988, the first NCAA appearance since 2006, and the first time in memory that Bradley has been picked as high as 2nd in the MVC. How many Division I schools have seen a 50% drop in attendance in the last 9-10 years?
Mikovio
Member
While I definitely 100% agree more can be done (I think reaching out to more area schools/groups is a good idea) and agree the Glasser/Geno disaster cost a lot of fans, attendance is down about everywhere you look. You see a whole lot more empty seats at U of I and ISU games than in decades past too. I think it's harder to get fans to come to games with more entertainment options, plus you can stream every game from the comfort of your home with ESPN3/+.
Dub
New member
That meter must be out of calibration.
Tommy
Well-known member
Thanks for the attendance info. That's really interesting stuff.
I will say, looking at the attendance info, I can't imagine Geno's last year was as high as is shown and it makes me wonder if attendance is and has always been calculated the same way. I remember coming to those games and you could practically count the people in the stands, and I'm not gonna lie, I found myself not feeling well on more than one game night that last year. I really doubt it would be out of the realm of possibility that old JG was fudging the attendance numbers back then, but I guess it's not fair to say without some solid proof.
All in all, if we keep winning the fans will start coming back. A consecutive trip to the NCAA should at least boost the student attendance you'd think, right?
I will say, looking at the attendance info, I can't imagine Geno's last year was as high as is shown and it makes me wonder if attendance is and has always been calculated the same way. I remember coming to those games and you could practically count the people in the stands, and I'm not gonna lie, I found myself not feeling well on more than one game night that last year. I really doubt it would be out of the realm of possibility that old JG was fudging the attendance numbers back then, but I guess it's not fair to say without some solid proof.
All in all, if we keep winning the fans will start coming back. A consecutive trip to the NCAA should at least boost the student attendance you'd think, right?
I understand announced attendance are tickets sold. I'm no crowd estimator by profession, but it looked like 1500 people tops. It is getting pathetic. That was one of the smallest crowds I've ever been a part of.
I hate to say this, and always hated the idea, but the Renaissance Coliseum might be the way to go....
At least it could have real crowd noise instead of pumped in noise, and I think it would be an actual real home court advantage..... just my 2 cents.
I dont think the crowd is ever coming back.
I hate to say this, and always hated the idea, but the Renaissance Coliseum might be the way to go....
At least it could have real crowd noise instead of pumped in noise, and I think it would be an actual real home court advantage..... just my 2 cents.
I dont think the crowd is ever coming back.
it's boogie time
Active member
It did feel empty last night against Norfolk State. The basketball program needs to win consistantly to get new fans or fans back. 2001 was the last time BU was in the top 3 of the Valley. Hopefully, that changes this year. Two droughts were erased last year.
LongTimeFan
Active member
Brock, I also would be a season ticket holder if I lived in the Peoria area. However, as much as I miss being at the games, I do not miss the high taxes and fees. The income tax is likely to go higher.
Stryker
New member
Here are my two cents on the attendance thing:
I graduated in 2008. It was an amazing time to be a BB fan. After the S16 run we had huge crowds at every game. Sellouts, you name it. The NIT game vs Providence and the MSU game are two very memorable games from my last couple years at school.
That said, BU basketball had a problem then, and we all knew it. It was the elderly ticket holders. We knew they had limited time left. And they made up a big portion of the season ticket holders. BU basketball was going to have a season ticket holder problem by now no matter what just because so many used to be elderly.
its over 10 years later and many of these season ticket holders are gone. Maybe not literally, but they are no longer able to attend games. As we saw, most dropped their tickets during the Glasser years, and rightfully so. But a lot of them didn’t come back just because they could not.
These were people that grew up watching ranked BU teams in the 60s & 70s. They had been with the team for decades. They are gone now.
The Glasser fiasco happened at the worst possible time. It was nearly impossible to get new season ticket holders when the team could not even win 10 games a year.
To sum it up, high amount of attrition due to age over the past 10 years combined with some of the worst seasons in the history of the program, and you see the results.
BU needs to show the community they have a good product that will last more than one or two seasons before many commit to being long term season ticket holders. They also need to find a younger audience, which most sports teams are having a hard time doing. Hopefully it improves as more of the people my age have kids and want to give their kids a fun experience like this. My boys are 3 & 1 so it will be a little while yet before I make a point to get them to games, but that time will come.
I graduated in 2008. It was an amazing time to be a BB fan. After the S16 run we had huge crowds at every game. Sellouts, you name it. The NIT game vs Providence and the MSU game are two very memorable games from my last couple years at school.
That said, BU basketball had a problem then, and we all knew it. It was the elderly ticket holders. We knew they had limited time left. And they made up a big portion of the season ticket holders. BU basketball was going to have a season ticket holder problem by now no matter what just because so many used to be elderly.
its over 10 years later and many of these season ticket holders are gone. Maybe not literally, but they are no longer able to attend games. As we saw, most dropped their tickets during the Glasser years, and rightfully so. But a lot of them didn’t come back just because they could not.
These were people that grew up watching ranked BU teams in the 60s & 70s. They had been with the team for decades. They are gone now.
The Glasser fiasco happened at the worst possible time. It was nearly impossible to get new season ticket holders when the team could not even win 10 games a year.
To sum it up, high amount of attrition due to age over the past 10 years combined with some of the worst seasons in the history of the program, and you see the results.
BU needs to show the community they have a good product that will last more than one or two seasons before many commit to being long term season ticket holders. They also need to find a younger audience, which most sports teams are having a hard time doing. Hopefully it improves as more of the people my age have kids and want to give their kids a fun experience like this. My boys are 3 & 1 so it will be a little while yet before I make a point to get them to games, but that time will come.
You are right. Especially about the Glasser/Cross/Ford fiasco happening at the worst time.
However, for decades, and even throughout generations, older fans passed their season tickets down to their children or to other family members because they were so much in demand. If the problem was just from fans getting older, attendance would have dropped off sharply starting in the 1960's. But many decades passed, and attendance stayed strong, even increasing for periods. So why isn't that happening now? Why are season tickets worth so much less now that nobody in the families of the older fans wants them? There are many reasons- people are having fewer kids, the kids aren't interested as much, people seem to prefer to watch on TV, etc.
That is why we shouldn't be giving fans even additional reasons not to attend.
However, for decades, and even throughout generations, older fans passed their season tickets down to their children or to other family members because they were so much in demand. If the problem was just from fans getting older, attendance would have dropped off sharply starting in the 1960's. But many decades passed, and attendance stayed strong, even increasing for periods. So why isn't that happening now? Why are season tickets worth so much less now that nobody in the families of the older fans wants them? There are many reasons- people are having fewer kids, the kids aren't interested as much, people seem to prefer to watch on TV, etc.
That is why we shouldn't be giving fans even additional reasons not to attend.
Dubl R 1
Active member
Also, do we know the numbers on all those seats that were eliminated for the new Brave’s Club area?
How many season ticket holders were there in that area, and how many renewed after having there seats taken away?
Regardless of wether or not that hurt attendance I absolutely do not like the Braves club area where it is. It looks awful on tv. By late in the second half it looks like a daycare facility, with small kids doing cartwheels, running around. Combined with the mingling area next to the band, it looks like amateur hour to me.
These areas so close to the court should have people and seats in them in my opinion.
How many season ticket holders were there in that area, and how many renewed after having there seats taken away?
Regardless of wether or not that hurt attendance I absolutely do not like the Braves club area where it is. It looks awful on tv. By late in the second half it looks like a daycare facility, with small kids doing cartwheels, running around. Combined with the mingling area next to the band, it looks like amateur hour to me.
These areas so close to the court should have people and seats in them in my opinion.
Stryker
New member
Bradley had much better teams in the 60s and 70s, which is why season tickets stayed in demand. BU has really only had one good season in the 90s and then a couple under Les. That’s not a lot of history of good basketball for anyone under the age of 40. You have to be about 45-50 to remember the Versace years. Season ticket holders were made up of mostly people that stuck with the team after experiencing the 60s-80s. Their kids didn’t have that experience. It’s hard to keep under 50s people invested when there have basically been 2 periods of somewhat limited success in their lifetimes.
It was also a different time. Even 10 years ago people would talk about how BU basketball was the only fun thing going on in Peoria during the winter. Not like there is anything better today but with streaming and online services every live entertainment product has more to compete with today than 10 years ago.
While I agree with much of what you said, I don't agree that "Bradley had much better teams in the 60s and 70s".
Here are the actual records-
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/bradley/
I lived through most of the 60s and 70s as a Bradley fan, and although there were some good teams, I wouldn't call any of those teams "great", and most of them were mediocre. Bradley often had good records, but much of that was because they usually played very weak non-conference schedules. In 11 of the 20 seasons between 1960-1980, Bradley failed to produce a winning MVC record.
Bradley never made a single NCAA appearance in the 60s or 70s. And after a few NIT appearances in the early-mid 1960's Bradley had a long stretch from 1968 to the second year of Dick Versace in 1980 that they never played in either the NCAA or NIT. I remember a lot of mediocre seasons in that stretch. Yet season ticket holders rarely gave up their tickets back then, and attendance held steady. I am not trying to denigrate those Joe Stowell teams, but IMO there have been just as many exciting and winning teams, including successful postseason teams in these recent 10-20+ years.
buballer82
New member
While I agree that the end of last season was exciting and great, those would not be the words I would use to describe the 11 game stretch that BU went 2-9 incuding 5 home losses. There were several games last year that out of my group of about 16 friends and family that have season tickets, maybe only 4 or 5 of us showed up. The die hard fans will show up no matter what, but for many I feel like interest wanes easily when you are losing to the likes of EIU at home.
Mikovio
Member
I think you also have to remember that in the 60s and 70s the Valley had the likes of Cincinnati, Louisville and Memphis, so season ticket holders would see those prestigious programs come to town even when BU had a bad team. Now you've got some regional appeal with foes like ISU, SIU and Loyola, but the overall home schedule doesn't compare to back then.
While I don't think we'll get back to regular crowds of 10k+ absent a string of NCAA runs, getting over 7k regularly should be the goal. It's going to take smart marketing and an exciting, winning brand of basketball.
While I don't think we'll get back to regular crowds of 10k+ absent a string of NCAA runs, getting over 7k regularly should be the goal. It's going to take smart marketing and an exciting, winning brand of basketball.
Joe Stowell to me was and still is "Mr. Bradley" - one who dedicated his life to the school and the program. The first Bradley game I attended was my freshman year - December 6, 1971 and Bradley was playing the previous season Big 10 Champions and ranked Minnesota at home. Joe had a strategy that really threw Minnesota off their game. Joe played "short" Henry Thomas and the extremely tall Minnesota players were constantly being called for charging. From that first game and the crowd in Robertson Memorial - I was hooked and have been ever since. Joe Stowell gave everything he had to train and teach below average players how to compete against teams with highly rated recruits. Joe's teams for the most part were competitive and had their fair share of upsets. Who do you think did a greater job and worked harder- Joe Stowell to make Bradley competitive or today's over priced coaches at Kansas and Kentucky with their "one and done" freshmen? And during that era there was no internet access to watch any games and tv coverage was sparse at best - so for entertainment and supporting their Bradley team all interested fans attended Bradley's games - and to assure good seats - I heard that season ticket holders passed their seats to younger family members.
Today it is different and Da Coach briefly touched on this one key factor - which is all the available TV channels and Internet coverage. It is so much easier to just turn on a game and save the expense, the time, the travel, the cold, the hassle. This is true even for Bradley students in their dorm rooms or living off campus. During my era if anyone wanted to watch the game - "they had to be there".... Well let me share with today's students that you are missing golden opportunities to enrich your Bradley memories. Many Power 5 (or 6) conference schools would give anything to have a team like Bradley does this year. Today I live in Colorado - but as a Bradley fan stated earlier - I too would be a season ticket holder if I lived within 1 - 1.5 hours of Peoria.
As for the weekday 6 pm starts - my belief is that is a MVC issue with the cable and TV networks since all teams also have this issue. As for improving the game atmosphere. Norfolk State and Radford are formidable foes - but not to many fans have ever heard of these schools. Somehow a miracle needs to be in place where power five or six schools have to play 2 road games on mid-major home courts. Michigan State and Michigan both played at Bradley and # 1 North Carolina opened their season a couple of years ago at Northern Iowa and the places were stuffed. More games such as these need to occur and I realize it is tough - especially for mid-major schools.
I do not have any solutions or suggestions at this time. I believe everyone is trying to improve what they can control. I totally "disagree" and shocked with any suggestion of moving the games to Bradley's Renaissance Center.
Well I do have one suggestion - BRADLEY FANS and STUDENTS - take advantage of having a very good team this year and attend the home games. The caliber of the Valley basketball is right up there with all other major conferences. Make some memories that will last a lifetime. GO BRAVES !!!!
Today it is different and Da Coach briefly touched on this one key factor - which is all the available TV channels and Internet coverage. It is so much easier to just turn on a game and save the expense, the time, the travel, the cold, the hassle. This is true even for Bradley students in their dorm rooms or living off campus. During my era if anyone wanted to watch the game - "they had to be there".... Well let me share with today's students that you are missing golden opportunities to enrich your Bradley memories. Many Power 5 (or 6) conference schools would give anything to have a team like Bradley does this year. Today I live in Colorado - but as a Bradley fan stated earlier - I too would be a season ticket holder if I lived within 1 - 1.5 hours of Peoria.
As for the weekday 6 pm starts - my belief is that is a MVC issue with the cable and TV networks since all teams also have this issue. As for improving the game atmosphere. Norfolk State and Radford are formidable foes - but not to many fans have ever heard of these schools. Somehow a miracle needs to be in place where power five or six schools have to play 2 road games on mid-major home courts. Michigan State and Michigan both played at Bradley and # 1 North Carolina opened their season a couple of years ago at Northern Iowa and the places were stuffed. More games such as these need to occur and I realize it is tough - especially for mid-major schools.
I do not have any solutions or suggestions at this time. I believe everyone is trying to improve what they can control. I totally "disagree" and shocked with any suggestion of moving the games to Bradley's Renaissance Center.
Well I do have one suggestion - BRADLEY FANS and STUDENTS - take advantage of having a very good team this year and attend the home games. The caliber of the Valley basketball is right up there with all other major conferences. Make some memories that will last a lifetime. GO BRAVES !!!!