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Bite the Bullet

BradleyJD said:
Is it bad that we are reduced to saying we are bad, but not historically bad yet?????

8 straight losses...now THERE is a goal to shoot for :cry:
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Wrong...

We ARE in fact historically bad...

We have lost more games to begin a Valley season than any team in BU history in the conference so I got what Realfan was trying to say...


So yes we are THAT bad!
 
SaintLouBrave22 said:
Wrong...

We ARE in fact historically bad...

We have lost more games to begin a Valley season than any team in BU history in the conference so I got what Realfan was trying to say...


So yes we are THAT bad!
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Yep. And in real danger of finishing in sole possession of last place, something that has similarly never occurred.
 
I have no doubt that we are heading in a historically bad season, but really losses are losses.
There is nothing more significant about starting with consecutive losses vs losses dispersed with wins. Sure it feels psychologically bad to have consecutive losses, but the end record is the real measure.
 
Da Coach said:
People are entitled to their opinions, but if Sammy and TB are healthy, we are not even having this conversation.
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I don't think you could state this with any degree of certainty. Before the season started we were picked to be a 5th place team in the conference even though we had three players recognized on the pre-season all-conference teams.

If Sammy and Taylor were healthy this year, I think it's pretty safe to say that there would be a number of people asking for a coaching change if we were once again scuffling around in the middle of the conference...I think most people had a much higher expectation for this team than 5th place...

Based on the fact that we have become a league doormat without them, I think it becomes really difficult to support a theory that we have a system and supporting cast in place that would have allowed us to challenge Wichita or Missouri State for the title if they were healthy...IMO.

And another underwhelming 4th or 5th place finish which three supposed all-conference caliber players would have brought about just as many (if not more) questions about the direction of this program under Les, I would think.
 
ER3 said:
I don't think you could state this with any degree of certainty. Before the season started we were picked to be a 5th place team in the conference even though we had three players recognized on the pre-season all-conference teams.

If Sammy and Taylor were healthy this year, I think it's pretty safe to say that there would be a number of people asking for a coaching change if we were once again scuffling around in the middle of the conference...I think most people had a much higher expectation for this team than 5th place...

Based on the fact that we have become a league doormat without them, I think it becomes really difficult to support a theory that we have a system and supporting cast in place that would have allowed us to challenge Wichita or Missouri State for the title if they were healthy...IMO.

And another underwhelming 4th or 5th place finish which three supposed all-conference caliber players would have brought about just as many (if not more) questions about the direction of this program under Les, I would think.
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You can not state this with any certainty either...people keep stating that the addition of TB and SM would not make that much difference...what I think thye fail to realize or just do not want to see is that with the addition of TB and SM...then AW is playing better as is DD and DSE and WE and JE and..etc....I am sorry but, to take away the caliber of player that TB and SM are is devestating and effects all the players...its interesting to see where we are picked pre-season...but I would not have JL 's job hinged on where we were picked...the fact is this....no one can say with any certainty where BU would be with TB and SM..good or bad...

But chances are good that with TB and SM we are certainly not having this discussion...
 
I'm not quite sure why some think that 2 players would make this team world beaters. The caveat before the season was if there was going to be an improvement in record, the bigs had to step up. None of them have so far. JP is about the only one you can make a case for, but his minutes are herkyjerky.

Will Egolf is averaging **** near a foul-out per game in 20 minutes. If he played 35 minutes, he'd need 8 fouls.
AT hasn't done much except block shots and pick up a couple T's.

And this team has only won 5 games against D1 opponents, with only 1 "good" win.

Do Taylor Brown and Sam Maniscalco make that big of a difference? (to get into the top 2 or 3) This team isn't anywhere close to SMS or WSU with or without them.

And I am factoring in the whole idea that #1 becomes #3, etc.
 
JMM28 said:
I'm not quite sure why some think that 2 players would make this team world beaters. The caveat before the season was if there was going to be an improvement in record, the bigs had to step up. None of them have so far. JP is about the only one you can make a case for, but his minutes are herkyjerky.

Will Egolf is averaging **** near a foul-out per game in 20 minutes. If he played 35 minutes, he'd need 8 fouls.
AT hasn't done much except block shots and pick up a couple T's.

And this team has only won 5 games against D1 opponents, with only 1 "good" win.

Do Taylor Brown and Sam Maniscalco make that big of a difference?
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I believe they do...reasoning in previous post...them playing puts everyone back in their role and takes pressure off those playing out of position...and AW does not get all that attention he is getting on "D"...

JE playing power forward? not with TB there...I mean really:

1. SM with DSE subbing
2. DD, with JE, DSE
3. AW, with JE subbing and TB moving there with WE and JP in at the 4 and 5
4. TB, playing most of the game..WE spelling him
5. WE and JP....

add in Walt Jr, MK, and AT for a couple minutes....
 
JMM28 said:
I'm not quite sure why some think that 2 players would make this team world beaters. The caveat before the season was if there was going to be an improvement in record, the bigs had to step up. None of them have so far. JP is about the only one you can make a case for, but his minutes are herkyjerky.

Will Egolf is averaging **** near a foul-out per game in 20 minutes. If he played 35 minutes, he'd need 8 fouls.
AT hasn't done much except block shots and pick up a couple T's.

And this team has only won 5 games against D1 opponents, with only 1 "good" win.

Do Taylor Brown and Sam Maniscalco make that big of a difference? (to get into the top 2 or 3) This team isn't anywhere close to SMS or WSU with or without them.

And I am factoring in the whole idea that #1 becomes #3, etc.
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We can argue this point untill the cows come home. Both sides of the argument can make good cases....so to ME it comes down to do we continue to wait/hope for those "what ifs."

And when I say WE I mean the admins....will they give another flyer to JL OR will the fans voices (or lack OF voices) speak loud and clear?
 
srw said:
And its going to get worse.....

I am hopeful Jim will realize its time to go and neogiate a buyout.

If he continues to stay he is either not very smart, or doesnt care about this university
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I 2nd your motion , We will not be better next season unless Taylor is given the ok to play which is a big if because we will lose our no.1 scorer and gain our point guard which is close to a wash, where has our recruiting been over the last several years?
We never recruited :
Carl Richards Ind. St.
Robo Krepps UIC
Rayvonte Rice Drake
These 3 players all played in Peoria in the state Tour. and all 3 are not only scorers but just overall good players, having the tour. in Peoria only helps if you can evaluate good talent, question if we can because it sure looks like we have quite a few players that are not decent shooters and others that do not rebound.
Anyone else think these players would have helped us?
 
real fan said:
I 2nd your motion , We will not be better next season unless Taylor is given the ok to play which is a big if because we will lose our no.1 scorer and gain our point guard which is close to a wash, where has our recruiting been over the last several years?
We never recruited :
Carl Richards Ind. St.
Robo Krepps UIC
Rayvonte Rice Drake
These 3 players all played in Peoria in the state Tour. and all 3 are not only scorers but just overall good players, having the tour. in Peoria only helps if you can evaluate good talent, question if we can because it sure looks like we have quite a few players that are not decent shooters and others that do not rebound.
Anyone else think these players would have helped us?
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I know Carl Richard's father, and BU was never really interested.
 
Werent Sammy and TB healthy last year? If we had the same results as last year this year then I think most people would still want a change.

We were picked 5th with those guys now if people think we would have been top 3 with them healthy we shouldnt finish 10th without them.
 
Lakeview Brave said:
Werent Sammy and TB healthy last year? If we had the same results as last year this year then I think most people would still want a change.

We were picked 5th with those guys now if people think we would have been top 3 with them healthy we shouldnt finish 10th without them.
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Exactly:!:
 
Lakeview Brave said:
Werent Sammy and TB healthy last year? If we had the same results as last year this year then I think most people would still want a change.
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Not only that, but we were also in position to contend with JE and JP starting their campaign after taking the RS. Not to mention all the hype surrounding WL Jr., and although there have been some flat games (like the one with ISU Blue) he's been as consistent as you can get for being a frosh.

It's debatable though, because JE has underwhelmed but JP has given me hope that the frontcourt is not all that lost. He really has no supporting cast on that end than compared to the backcourt guys like AW or DD, who seem to carry the offensive load. One guy here posted Egolf leads the nation in fouls per game, can you trust him during crunchtime??

But that is what you come to expect from such a guard-heavy line-up. Warren scores a lot of points (as did DD last night), but he sure takes a lot of shots. Who will be our weapon?
 
Indiana State

Indiana State

Two members of the Indiana State basketball program spent the day at Manual offering Jeff Stokes a basketball scholarship. How do we let people come in our backyard and get the Peoria kids? First SIU gets Bobo and now they are trying to get Stokes who just got offered from UIC last week..we are horrible recruiters and evaluators of talent.
 
Lakeview Brave said:
Werent Sammy and TB healthy last year? If we had the same results as last year this year then I think most people would still want a change.

We were picked 5th with those guys now if people think we would have been top 3 with them healthy we shouldnt finish 10th without them.
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right on!!!!!
 
Lakeview Brave said:
Werent Sammy and TB healthy last year? If we had the same results as last year this year then I think most people would still want a change.

We were picked 5th with those guys now if people think we would have been top 3 with them healthy we shouldnt finish 10th without them.
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exactly??? Really? not even sure what your point here is???

No JP last year....no DD last year...

we were picked 5th....so what...

top three...that is where I thought we would be...but 10th is not where I think we will finish either...
 
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