Bradley tennis

[Buesch N Chips]

DC , I'd think you'd get tired of lumping everyone together as JL haters. I've never been a JL hater but It was time for him to go. If in your mind that makes me a JL hater than I guess it is what it is but it is far from the truth. Jim was always very respectful to me, as I was to him. It was painfully clear to many that coaching experience should have been a must in selecting a coach when Mo was let go. Just for the record , I also was friends with Coach Mo and was sadden to see him go but in reality it was probably time for him to go too. The worst part about his departure was the timing. One of the best recruiting classes we've had in a long time. What few of us regular posters left on here will never change your mind as you will NEVER change ours. Am I happy with the last 3 years, of course not but, now that GF has all his own recruits with the exception of one ,we'll need to see some major improvement. I think we will but time will tell real soon. Hope the clock isn't ticking but it probably is. Winning will change everything including putting butts in the seats.

Amen. I defended JL to the end but in reality he wasn't going to get better here with his frosty relationships with the media and the administration, and his poor staff. He was becoming a man without a country. He brought things to the table that were very positive, but his reign had run its course. The timing was bad, however. He probably should have been fired a year earlier.

To say that anyone who doesn't puff up his record and continue to beat the Les Good/Ford Bad drum, to say that they are a hater is ridiculous and pouty. Were there people that hated him? Yes. They are now mostly gone from here. And because people hated him, the prediction that criticism would continue isn't very impressive. I could make predictions about what I expect to find on this board in the future and I bet I would predict right.

And to the point of Coach Ford, even if things do not work out for him here, that will not change the fact that JL should have been let go, in my opinion. JL's friends will surely disagree with that, as they should.

 

[egib52]

I thought this thread was about BU Tennis, and was wondering why it was under basketball. Now I know.

 

[TheAsianSensation]

They were winning seasons. I never claimed they were on par with the 2006 season, or equal to Duke or North Carolina-type success. They drew fans and set records for financial support. That is undeniable, it's right there on Bradley's own website-
http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=187398
http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewAr..._ID=3400&ATCLID=1597812&SPID=1510&SPSID=19447

If you want to recall those years as mediocre, that's fine. That is anyone's priviledge. But they were winning seasons, over 20 wins, and RPI's that fans would die for these last 3 years.
Like most fans, I enjoyed those years a heck of a lot more than these last 3. If it was time for a change, then so be it. But revisionists who want us to think we are better off now aren't fooling anyone.

You seem to keep wanting to compare the last 3 years to the latter half of the Les era. That's fine, but you're missing the point everyone else is trying to make. Just because the second half of the Les era is better than the Geno era so far doesn't mean that the Les era is the gold standard. The goal isn't to get back to the level Les had the program at - it's to exceed what he did.

Every time someone seems to want to comment about how good or bad Les' tenure was, you have to compare it to this era. Why is that? Why can't we just have opinions on that era based on what happened during the era?

Prior to the change Bradley was a respectable, flourishing program, not a laughingstock.

Respectable program, yes. Flourishing, no. One short peak (admittedly a great peak) does not make a program flourishing.

 

[BU Bill]

Postseason awards banquets

Postseason awards banquets

I recall almost every season with good memories, but there haven't been many recently. I can see why the fan following is diminishing.
One thing I do notice now that is now different from all the years I've followed Bradley basketball is that the administration seems to have done away with the postseason basketball awards banquet. I can remember every year, even losing years, there would be 500 or more fans crowded into the 2nd floor banquet room at the student center to honor the seniors and team leaders and others.
Why did this AD do away with this highly successful event that was a tradition on campus since the 1950s?

 

[Da Coach]

You seem to keep wanting to compare the last 3 years to the latter half of the Les era. ...

I didn't start this, and I never said those years were some kind of "gold standard". Now you are fabricating words and putting words in my mouth that are not even close to what I have said.
I am merely refuting the oft stated phrase by detractors of the previous era that those years were terrible, or at best mediocre. They were better than that.

Respectable program, yes. Flourishing, no. One short peak (admittedly a great peak) does not make a program flourishing.

Flourishing was in reference to the abundant financial revenues pouring into the program. By Bradley's own reports, revenues were at all-time highs. Bradley, in many ways, was the envy of many mid-major programs. That is a thing of the past.

 

[TheAsianSensation]

I didn't start this, and I never said those years were some kind of "gold standard". Now you are fabricating words and putting words in my mouth that are not even close to what I have said.
I am merely refuting the oft stated phrase by detractors of the previous era that those years were terrible, or at best mediocre. They were better than that.




Flourishing was in reference to the abundant financial revenues pouring into the program. By Bradley's own reports, revenues were at all-time highs. Bradley, in many ways, was the envy of many mid-major programs. That is a thing of the past.

Actually, you did start this, because I'm looking at this thread, and it was about the lack of success around the athletic department (which is fair game), and in post 12, you took a hard swerve towards the basketball program specifically.

And you also say I put words in your mouth about the whole "gold standard" thing...and in the same post say that revenues were at all-time highs and that BU was the envy of many mid-majors. How is that not implying a "gold standard"?

By the way, I'm with you on the part where some are trying to say '08 and '09 were horrible. They weren't. They're wrong and you're right on that part. (now if they wanted to argue that recruiting was down in '08-'09, fine)

 

[Da Coach]

Actually, you did start this, because I'm looking at this thread, and it was about the lack of success around the athletic department (which is fair game), and in post 12, you took a hard swerve towards the basketball program specifically.

And you also say I put words in your mouth about the whole "gold standard" thing...and in the same post say that revenues were at all-time highs and that BU was the envy of many mid-majors. How is that not implying a "gold standard"?

By the way, I'm with you on the part where some are trying to say '08 and '09 were horrible. They weren't. They're wrong and you're right on that part. (now if they wanted to argue that recruiting was down in '08-'09, fine)

Sorry, but you are mistaken. My post #12 was in response to the allegation brought up in the previous post (post #11) about claims of mediocrity. I will continue to refute those who mistakenly, or with an agenda, try to distort the historical truth.

And are you denying that revenues were at all time highs? It's right there on the BU website. That is a pretty good place to be, and we are now far from it. I never said the level of success of the basketball program was a "gold standard".

 

[TheAsianSensation]

Sorry, but you are mistaken. My post #12 was in response to the allegation brought up in the previous post (post #11) about claims of mediocrity. I will continue to refute those who mistakenly, or with an agenda, try to distort the historical truth.

Ok ok, so you responded to tornado's post (although he was trying to refer to the entire admins, not just basketball). But not to refute any of his claims, but to reinforce. No one with an agenda was trying to make a point until you barged in on top of tornado.

And I will continue to refute those who try to distort the past who have an agenda.

And are you denying that revenues were at all time highs? It's right there on the BU website. That is a pretty good place to be, and we are now far from it. I never said the level of success of the basketball program was a "gold standard".

No, never denied that. Revenues were great.

And that's all I needed to hear. You saying the level of success of basketball under Les didn't reach the top standard. You've seemed to be implying, at almost every turn the last few years, that it was at the accepted top level it should be at. Now I know that everyone else is simply misinterpreting your thoughts.

 

[Da Coach]

Wow, this really is hard for you- I will say again-I did not start this, and you now seem to agree. And I will continue to refute the oft used line that things were bad before the coaching change. They were not (except for the 2010-11 year, which the administration themselves have stated clearly they do not hold the coach responsible for). The team was way more successful than at any time since the coaching change, and the program was immensely more healthy in every way measurable.

Bottom line is that I am consistent in correcting the lie that things were terrible under the previous coach and/or administration- that is patently false, and almost every fan knows it, even if you or a handful of others want to try to keep perpetuating that lie to make yourselves feel better about horrible condition we've been in these last few years.
3 years of Thursday night losses, record blowouts, and numerous records for losses, should be enough for any intelligent fan to admit that those who predicted all this fallout were 100% accurate.

 

[wily coyote]

Wow, this really is hard for you- I will say again-I did not start this, and you now seem to agree. And I will continue to refute the oft used line that things were bad before the coaching change. They were not (except for the 2010-11 year, which the administration themselves have stated clearly they do not hold the coach responsible for). The team was way more successful than at any time since the coaching change, and the program was immensely more healthy in every way measurable.

Bottom line is that I am consistent in correcting the lie that things were terrible under the previous coach and/or administration- that is patently false, and almost every fan knows it, even if you or a handful of others want to try to keep perpetuating that lie to make yourselves feel better about horrible condition we've been in these last few years.
3 years of Thursday night losses, record blowouts, and numerous records for losses, should be enough for any intelligent fan to admit that those who predicted all this fallout were 100% accurate.

DC , no one is denying the last 3 years were horrible. You keep going back to that excuse but what MOST of us are saying is it was time to go. Things weren't as rosy as the two of you keep saying. NO WE WEREN"T AS BAD AS WE"VE BEEN THE LAST 3 YRS. Some of that was Jim's fault because of what he left us with. We were never gonna compete for league titles with what he was able to bring in here. The rest of us aren't buying what your selling . Simple as that.

 

[Bravesfanchicago]

I always chuckle when posters comment on what " JL left behind".

What was remaining and those that transferred or changed and committed elsewhere were the result of JG's decision to change coaches .......so Sam... Remy etc would have been in place etc.

What's as interesting is the player turnover rate of what Geno has cycled through ...geno recruits supposed impact players but they are gone from campus in a year.

 

[Da Coach]

Some of that was Jim's fault because of what he left us with...

That may be the opinion of some, but I think there was a lot more left in the cupboard than most new coaches usually get.
For each of the last 3 seasons, the best player on the team has been one of the left over players.
Of the players "left behind", -
Will Egolf- was a double digit scorer his final year, something that Bradley had not had for over 20 years. The centers since Will have averaged about 3 points per game.
Dyricus Simms-Edwards- was the Defensive Player of the Year, and averaged 11.5 ppg as a junior, and 12.3 ppg as a senior. Those averages are higher than any player recruited by the current staff.
Walt Lemon- was an all conference player for 2 years in a row, and his 3-year averages of 12.6, 15.6 and 18.0 ppg were, by far, the 3 best scoring averages of any player on the BU team over the last 3 years, except for Taylor Brown.
Taylor Brown- was the team's leading scorer with an average of 14.8 ppg in 2010-11, and was the only all conference player on Geno's first team
Jake Eastman- another of Geno's regular starters and a role player who averaged more assists per game than any player recruited by the current staff in these last 3 years.

Not a bad group to inherit, multiple All-MVC players, a Defensive POY, and at least 7 different double digit scoring seasons among them, and a major reason why the record plummeted the 3rd year when the bulk of them left.

And that group would have also included Sam, Remy, and Tyler Brown, who was also an All MVC player (for ISU).

 

[wily coyote]

Of the players "left behind"-
Will Egolf- was a double digit scorer his final year, something that Bradley had not had for over 20 years. The centers since Will have averaged about 3 points per game.
Dyricus Simms-Edwards- was the Defensive Player of the Year, and averaged 11.5 ppg as a junior, and 12.3 ppg as a senior. Those averages are higher than any player recruited by the current staff.
Walt Lemon- was an all conference player for 2 years in a row, and his 3-year averages of 12.6, 15.6 and 18.0 ppg were, by far, the 3 best scoring averages of any player on the BU team over the last 3 years, except for Taylor Brown.
Taylor Brown- was the team's leading scorer with an average of 14.8 ppg in 2010-11, and was the only all conference player on Geno's first team
Jake Eastman- another of Geno's regular starters and a role player who averaged more assists per game than any player recruited by the current staff in these last 3 years.

Not a bad group to inherit, multiple All-MVC players, a Defensive POY, and at least 7 different double digit scoring seasons among them, and a major reason why the record plummeted the 3rd year when the bulk of them left.

And that group would have also included Sam, Remy, and Tyler Brown, who was also an All MVC player (for ISU).

In case no one has ever told you , we never finished above 4th with those all stars.
1.) Yes Will had one good yr but wasn't he here 5 YEARS.
2.) DSE serviceable on both ends of the court but not outstanding. Did like to watch how hard he played.
3.) Walt and TB what can I say . Both me players not much for team basketball. Have not or will not miss either.
4.) Jake, you got to be kidding. Great kid wouldn't get much playing time on a good team.
It amazes me you don't seem to get it. Those great kids NEVER got us higher than 4th place and JL fired. What more needs to be said.

 

[Bravesfanchicago]

What should be said....is that geno has gone down hill ....with more of his own players. Finishing fourth looks glorious right now.

What's needs to be said...is that there was never a plan when JL was pushed out..JG could not land multiple candidates and she ended up, in a panic hiring, hiring a coach who had no record of competitive higher conference recruiting or coaching ....and because of the panic...BU grossly overpaid for a coach who won an NIT game.

The President of BU made short term personnel decision driven by her own insecurity and ego. She and many others had no idea of how impactful that decision would be. So here BU sits......sadly. If only there was really a plan ....how different could things have been?

 

[Da Coach]

I have no problem with posters running down Bradley's past players, if that is what you want to do. But Geno was nonetheless fortunate to have inherited all the guys he did. I never said any of them were superstars or POY candidates. But there were multiple All MVC players, leading scorers every season, Defensive POY, and double-digit scorers that Geno benefitted from each of these last 3 years. If not for Jim Les' players leading the teams the last 3 years, things would have been far worse and we'd be looking at fallout of a magnitude never seen before. Too bad that due to recruiting mistakes, we never were able to replace them with quality players, and thus have set records for futility.

 

[Tulsa Brave]

What should be said....is that geno has gone down hill ....with more of his own players. Finishing fourth looks glorious right now.

What's needs to be said...is that there was never a plan when JL was pushed out..JG could not land multiple candidates and she ended up, in a panic hiring, hiring a coach who had no record of competitive higher conference recruiting or coaching ....and because of the panic...BU grossly overpaid for a coach who won an NIT game.

The President of BU made short term personnel decision driven by her own insecurity and ego. She and many others had no idea of how impactful that decision would be. So here BU sits......sadly. If only there was really a plan ....how different could things have been?

She hired a coach with credentials that far exceeded those that the previous coach came to BU with. So please explain the reasoning behind the previous hire, and why you feel it was better than the most recent one.

 

[tornado]

the talking points we currently see after all the promises we'd be better by now (in the media & chats) is to heap more blame on guys from the past and claim the problem was way worse and will take years to fix...
..we knew this was coming but from the empty seats .....it seems most fans are not buying it.
we just want to see success.....someone at the top has to step up and take responsibility instead of excuses and shifting blame...

 

[bravetime33]

What should be said....is that geno has gone down hill ....with more of his own players. Finishing fourth looks glorious right now.

What's needs to be said...is that there was never a plan when JL was pushed out..JG could not land multiple candidates and she ended up, in a panic hiring, hiring a coach who had no record of competitive higher conference recruiting or coaching ....and because of the panic...BU grossly overpaid for a coach who won an NIT game.

The President of BU made short term personnel decision driven by her own insecurity and ego. She and many others had no idea of how impactful that decision would be. So here BU sits......sadly. If only there was really a plan ....how different could things have been?

2 time coach of the year, 2 road nit wins, a positive conference record, conference champs is something to consider in having on someone's resume
He came here with collegiate experience which Les had none
Didn't seem to panic to me...least he had a track record

 

[amckillip]

2 time coach of the year, 2 road nit wins, a positive conference record, conference champs is something to consider in having on someone's resume
He came here with collegiate experience which Les had none
Didn't seem to panic to me...least he had a track record

Agreed. Can't say I'm happy with his resume once he got here, but Geno had the profile of good hire for BU.

 

[wily coyote]

I have no problem with posters running down Bradley's past players, if that is what you want to do. But Geno was nonetheless fortunate to have inherited all the guys he did. I never said any of them were superstars or POY candidates. But there were multiple All MVC players, leading scorers every season, Defensive POY, and double-digit scorers that Geno benefitted from each of these last 3 years. If not for Jim Les' players leading the teams the last 3 years, things would have been far worse and we'd be looking at fallout of a magnitude never seen before. Too bad that due to recruiting mistakes, we never were able to replace them with quality players, and thus have set records for futility.

It's no big deal we had double digit scorers that were Jim's people. Somebody had to score. Pretty simple and no one is saying Geno's misses weren't plentiful but what you two don't seem to understand or want to is that these same players you continue to glorify NEVER got us above 4th place and it's was highly unlikely to happen. The two all Valley players you speak of are also two players most BU fans did not and will not miss. As I've said MANY times on here ,I'm not happy with the last 3 years but it's extremely hard when the whole team is not on the same page (TB & WE). Hopefully we will not see any more of that kind of Basketball.