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Bradley's Brazil Tour vs. Professional Teams, Can BU Win?

tornado

tornado

New member
Let me make THREE strong points....

--every other foreign tour I have seen has pitted the college teams against "club teams", semi-pro teams, or against Canadian college teams
(as was the case when BU went to Canada six years ago -- and although BU beat all the Canadian teams, numerous coleges
have gone north of the border like U of I and lost, and SIU struggled in every one of their games.)
I cannot recall a single example of where a team took a foreign tour and played a full slate of NOTHING BUT professional teams, can you?
Here's a box score of a select group of players from the Big Ten that went to Europe and played some very low level pro teams and LOST games,
here's an example showing a sound loss to a low level Belgian pro team !
http://www.mgoblue.com/document_file/bigten-tour-4.pdf

In 2006, the Big Ten touring team lost some of their games soundly.
http://www.michigandaily.com/content/foreign-tour-good-cagers

--I know they aren't top level pro teams like the Celtics, the Lakers, or even Maccabi Tel Aviv...but even lesser tier PRO teams are
always made up of the best players you can get....
But even many of BU's BEST players don't just jump to the professional level, even at 24 or 25 years of age without a few years of struggle before succeeding!
Even the lesser pro teams here in the US like NBDL or CBA teams would crush most college teams...especially when considering the next point.

--as pro teams, these guys have played together for a long time, and likely have been practicing together for months!
They are playing in their own home environment and would be expected to have a huge "home court" type advantage even if it's not their own actual home arena.

So--- what's everyone's opinion on how hard this tour is going to be?
Can BU win any of these games?
Can a team with largely teenagers and 20 year olds who have only had 10 practices possibly hang with
a series of five different PROFESSIONAL teams in a row..including a couple of them that are clearly top caliber teams?

I think if BU can compete with these guys and even win a couple games, it would be a good sign.


and PS-- one last question. Has ISU ever gone on a foreign tour?
(not counting their 1995 5th place finish in the San Juan Shootout..those were US college teams
and ISU played a Brazilian amateur team as an exhibition in 1999)
http://redbirdfan.com/archives/9900/brazil_9900.htm
 
Do we know how competitive the Brazil pro league is relative to the European leagues?

I guess I'm not sure how good a Brazil pro team is.
 
Here are the rosters listed for some of the teams Bradley is scheduled to play-

Lupo/Araraquara of the NBB (the highest level pro league in Brazil)- roster contains players from 19 to 31 years of age, with size comparable to Bradley. They finished 12th in the 15-team NBB last spring.-
http://www.latinbasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=Brazil&Team=3680&Page=1

Paulistano/Amil of the NBB- they have players from 21-30, with comparable height to Bradley. They finished 9th in the 15-team NBB last spring.-
http://www.latinbasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=Brazil&Team=3557&Page=1

Fluminense from a lower level league. Most of their players appear to be younger and less experienced. I would think Bradley would have no problem with this team-
http://www.latinbasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=Brazil&Team=12297&Page=1
http://www.latinbasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=Brazil&Team=12297&Page=1
 
ser_solace said:
Do we know how competitive the Brazil pro league is relative to the European leagues?

I guess I'm not sure how good a Brazil pro team is.
Click to expand...


but I think that's exactly the question that I am posing. What would be a good measure?
I suspect no matter what evidence is put forth, someone will try to refute it, since I suspect the only measure that might get some acceptance would be if the Brazilian pro teams would regularly play home and home games vs. American teams.

But Brazil is a very large nation, with a lot of basketball interest, and a large, well organized system of professional teams that play year round.

and since the Brazilian pro leagues tightly restrict the use of import players, you will find VERY few Americans playing there.
Here you can see that 60-70 Brazilians are presently playing college ball in the US..and a few playing pro ball (Nene Hilario, Varejao Anderson)
http://www.latinbasket.com/Brazil/basketball-Players-Abroad.asp

but only about 8 Americans are playing pro ball in Brazil.

When Brazil competes in the FIBA Americas they almost always do quite well, and are always among the top 4 team in North, Central, and South America combined.
The Brazilian women are ranked #4 in the WORLD, and the men are #18, higher than Canada, Israel, and higher than every other South American country except Argentina.
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/even/rank/p/rankMen.html
 
Lets not get the crying towels out now:cry:. I'm sure JL and company did the research and knew and know just what they were doing in scheduling this trip and just who they will play:roll: Lets not start making excuses before the plane leaves P Town:oops: BU will do just fine:biggrin:
 
I hope each game challenges our young men! These are professional men they will be playing and I'd suspect that JL knows what he is doing here. Who cares if we win or lose these games! Let's hope the team gets everything they can out of this trip.
 
I hope we lose most of these games really. A team learns a whole heck of a lot more from losing than winning games like this.....

Let me make this clear though so people don't start bashing. If these teams aren't very talented then if we lose them..yes we have some problems. So really what I hope is that these teams are very very talented and can wipe the floor with us. You only get better by playing the best, and this could be a good learning experience so they know what to work on or it could be just a vacation and nothing more.
 
One point is that even though they have had only 10 practices, there aren't any freshman on the trip and most of these guys have played together before.
 
Losing games does not help your team in any way as it destroys your confidence , this will be a great experience for our players and hopefully the will take the games seriously and still have a good time on this trip as it is a once in a lifetime trip for most of the ones that will be going to Brazil. I know from going there a long time ago how much I was surprized by the differences in how the city of Rio was compared to Sao Paulo, the people were either very rich or really poor, there was no middle class and the living conditions for the poor was a real eye opener .
 
Out of Balance said:
Lets not start making excuses before the plane leaves P Town..
Click to expand...

who is doing what you're asking us not to do?
I see no excuses...but then I did pose a question - one that neither you nor anyone else has even taken a crack at...
...can anyone name a single time a college team went abroad and played PROFESSIONAL TEAMS?
Simple question...but obviously nobody has an answer....
Everyone else goes and plays rag-tag amateur and club teams, and rarely they play teams that might have a mix of pros.
BUT I couldn't find where anyone actually played a full tour of nothing BUT professional teams.
 
Yes BU can win games on this tour.

I think they will hang and be competitive with all of these teams.

I am concerned about the lack of depth and the number of games.

But I really dont care about the outcome of any of the games. I am concerned about this team jelling, coming together and developing a strong bond. I am also wanting this team to learn whatever offenses and defenses JL and staff have in mind.

By Nov very few will know anything about the games or the results, but the way this team handles itself versus BYU will likely be a direct reflection of this tour.
 
I'm trying to keep my mouth shut on this but I can't. Tornado, you crack me up at times, I never know if you're being serious or doing stand-up comedy:) Win or lose, all I hope for is that we come home with no injuries.
 
tornado said:
who is doing what you're asking us not to do?
I see no excuses...but then I did pose a question - one that neither you nor anyone else has even taken a crack at...
...can anyone name a single time a college team went abroad and played PROFESSIONAL TEAMS?
Simple question...but obviously nobody has an answer....
Everyone else goes and plays rag-tag amateur and club teams, and rarely they play teams that might have a mix of pros.
BUT I couldn't find where anyone actually played a full tour of nothing BUT professional teams.
Click to expand...

OK, to answer the ?, I don't know nor do I care as long as BU plays hard:!: As I said JL and the coachs knew what they are getting into. As for excuses there are some on this site who looks for any excuse they can come up with when BU loses and does not play well:roll: Look, lets go play ball with who ever, gain some experiences, do some team bonding and come home injury free:!::biggrin:
 
Out of Balance said:
OK, to answer the ?, I don't know nor do I care as long as BU plays hard:!: As I said JL and the coachs knew what they are getting into. As for excuses there are some on this site who looks for any excuse they can come up with when BU loses and does not play well:roll: Look, lets go play ball with who ever, gain some experiences, do some team bonding and come home injury free:!::biggrin:
Click to expand...

you confuse in depth analysis and discussion with excuses


BTW-- every one of these pro teams has a full time, salaried coach, they work out and practice year round, they play games in fall, winter, spring, and summer sessions, and they are made up of numerous players who are in their upper 20's and 30's.
All these are factors to differentiate from the usual foreign tour opponent who are NOT pro teams.

I have no idea what measure to use in deciding if they are good or not.
Like I said, the only thing I suppose would be accepted is if the Brazilian pro teams would regularly play home and home games vs. American teams,
but of course that does not happen.
These teams are clearly a major difference from the type of teams EVERY other D-I school plays on their foreign tours.
PLUS....these may be exhibition games to us, but to the Brazilian opponents, this is a TOURNAMENT, and pro teams don't play tournaments like exhibition games!
They will play all out to win, while we don't even have half our team with us and available.
As I said, I feel these teams will be good competition...better than we'd get playing unrecognizable Canadian colleges, or rag-tag teams of locals in Jamaica or rural Italy.

But I am prepared for the inevitable...
if BU wins all five or wins them convincingly then we'll hear how poor the opponents were.
And as we saw last year...if BU should lose even one game, then we'll still be hearing jabs about it a year later!
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=137141#post137141
 
houstontxbrave said:
Yes BU can win games on this tour.

I think they will hang and be competitive with all of these teams.

I am concerned about the lack of depth and the number of games.

But I really dont care about the outcome of any of the games. I am concerned about this team jelling, coming together and developing a strong bond. I am also wanting this team to learn whatever offenses and defenses JL and staff have in mind.

By Nov very few will know anything about the games or the results, but the way this team handles itself versus BYU will likely be a direct reflection of this tour.
Click to expand...


I have to agree....can they win, I suppose.... but the truth is nobody REALLY knows as none of us has a clue about the competition . Like Houston stated though its really NOT about the winning and more about jelling, finding your weaknesses and getting better as a unit.

Stay healthy, have some fun and learn from this trip. I'd take 0-6 vs excellent competition VS 6-0 against TOTAL cupcakes. Sure we'd all "feel better" with 6-0 but this trip is not about how the fans feel.

Its preseason....its about learning.
 
tornado said:
you confuse in depth analysis and discussion with excuses


BTW-- every one of these pro teams has a full time, salaried coach, they work out and practice year round, they play games in fall, winter, spring, and summer sessions, and they are made up of numerous players who are in their upper 20's and 30's.
All these are factors to differentiate from the usual foreign tour opponent who are NOT pro teams.

I have no idea what measure to use in deciding if they are good or not.
Like I said, the only thing I suppose would be accepted is if the Brazilian pro teams would regularly play home and home games vs. American teams,
but of course that does not happen.
These teams are clearly a major difference from the type of teams EVERY other D-I school plays on their foreign tours.
PLUS....these may be exhibition games to us, but to the Brazilian opponents, this is a TOURNAMENT, and pro teams don't play tournaments like exhibition games!
They will play all out to win, while we don't even have half our team with us and available.
As I said, I feel these teams will be good competition...better than we'd get playing unrecognizable Canadian colleges, or rag-tag teams of locals in Jamaica or rural Italy.

But I am prepared for the inevitable...
if BU wins all five or wins them convincingly then we'll hear how poor the opponents were.
And as we saw last year...if BU should lose even one game, then we'll still be hearing jabs about it a year later!
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=137141#post137141
Click to expand...
Me confused:? Probably:-o Hell I have a hard time finding my way home at times:lol: After reading the above (in bold) I really am confused, no excuse, just confused:p I am just kidding you, as I know where you are with everything here:lol: I am just hoping for a good awarding and safe trip for BU:!:
 
tornado said:
But I am prepared for the inevitable...
if BU wins all five or wins them convincingly then we'll hear how poor the opponents were.
And as we saw last year...if BU should lose even one game, then we'll still be hearing jabs about it a year later!
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=137141#post137141
Click to expand...


Who cares.....I'm sure other fans on other sites are prepared for the inevitable jabs some take about their weak schedules, players speeding tickets and so on and so forth. :)


As Bradleybrave alluded to....its the MVC wins that are all that matters.

Most of us realize that this trip is NOT about the W or the L.......
 
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