Bright future for Valley

[Da Coach]

When was the last time Bradley had a coach hired away by BCS/bigtime program???

What does that have to do with the topic? If Bradley had a string of coaches hired away by BCS schools, but not much NCAA success, would you and others who seem dissatisfied with the program be happy? I dobt it would make a bit of difference.

 

[peoriaspitfire]

We are not 1 of the BCS schools and we will only be lucky to make it to the Final 4. In fact to win more then 1 game in the NCAA tournament is doing very good for any team. Do you realize that only 16 teams win 2 games each year. If you have the time check out how many schools have one 2 games each year for last 10 years. I would be very surprised if there were more then a handful.
I guess I am the non competative one as I want to see good BB and see us win 20 games each year. I am not one that bases everything on going to the Big Dance but I will base it on being competative and getting better throughout the season. Yes, I would rather play 3 or 4 games in one of the other tournaments then 1 & done in the NCAA tourn. Does this mean that I don't think we should be shooting for that each year? Not at all but it doesnt make for a bad season just because we don't make it.
As far as the MVC goes, every coach is getting paid to do the same thing, and that is finish #1.
As for this year we have over achieved greatly as we are very young. Many times we have had 3 freshman on the floor at the same time and all underclassmen on the floor at the same time. We will be good but so will everyone else next year because approx. 65% of the starters in the valley will be back and and if you went through the top 8 players on each team that number goes to almost 75% so good luck moving up the ladder as it will get tougher. Then again we will be better next year then this year as we should have more depth next year. We lose 2 starters but only 1 bench player as long as everyone else comes back. It should be fun but no guarantee of a championship and not very likely to make it to the final 4

You're right, I don't the NCAA tournament is not the top priority. I care about winning the MVC or at the very least become the new Creighton of the MVC. Doing that first will usually take care of the NCAA situation. I do often dream about being the Midwest Gonzaga, Butler or Xavier but am a realist...

I have also noticed how young some of the other teams are and that is a bit worrisome, but overall good for the future of the MVC.

 

[leebiddlecome]

Has Bradley really been in contention much over the last decade? One top three seed (2001 - 2 seed) in that time versus three play-in games (2002, 2004 & 2005).

To answer your question honestly, No, Bradley hasn't been in contention. I wish I could answer differently.

It has been over 8 years since BU played a February game (home or away) in which some form of first place (alone, tie, etc) was on the line. I love going to BU games but nothing is better than going to a late season game at Carver Arena knowing you have a chance to win the league and that you can see a potential first place team on a given night.

That hasn't happened in quite some time. Hopefully it changes soon but, as the title of the thread suggested, this league is going to be real good in the future and I hope BU is among the leaders there.

 

[BUFAN]

What does that have to do with the topic? If Bradley had a string of coaches hired away by BCS schools, but not much NCAA success, would you and others who seem dissatisfied with the program be happy? I dobt it would make a bit of difference.

Da, success breads success, if Bradley had a successful NCAAMBB program one of the big boys would scarff up their coaching staff just like any of the other MVC programs that have been sucessful...

 

[Da Coach]

success breads success

Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way for the midmajors.

After Steve Alford left Missouri State, they took a step back with Barry, and now he's gone and they are an abysmal team.
After Keno Davis left Drake, they are mediocre, and rebuilding.
After Turgeon left WSU, they are struggling to rebuild, too.

In fact, other than the success SIU had with Painter and then for a couple years with Lowery (not now, though), just about every other example you can find in the MVC of a coach being hired away was followed by some pretty lean times, and not much success.

Many other schools like Winthrop, UW-Milwaukee, etc. may take a long time to get back to the levels their former coaches had them at.

 

[tornado]

and then for a couple years with Lowery ....

but it needs to be noted the success Lowery had was directly proportional to how many left-over players he had from the Weber/Painter era....
As the number of those players have declined and they have exited, most of Lowery's recruits have been total flops, overrated, have already left, or are now underachieving and losing more than the Saluki fans would like.
He still has time to build a legacy, but there are a growing number of fans who don't care to give him more time...

 

[BUFAN]

Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way for the midmajors.

After Steve Alford left Missouri State, they took a step back with Barry, and now he's gone and they are an abysmal team.
After Keno Davis left Drake, they are mediocre, and rebuilding.
After Turgeon left WSU, they are struggling to rebuild, too.

In fact, other than the success SIU had with Painter and then for a couple years with Lowery (not now, though), just about every other example you can find in the MVC of a coach being hired away was followed by some pretty lean times, and not much success.

Many other schools like Winthrop, UW-Milwaukee, etc. may take a long time to get back to the levels their former coaches had them at.

Da, you can argue all you want but, Alfords replacement, Davises replacement, Turgeons replacement, along with Mckenna and his replacement, Janks and his replacement and Marshalls and his replacement etc. etc. etc. will all be long gone to greener pastures and everyone in on this board will still be happy with Les and 4th or 5th in the Valley and I am not, sorry...

 

[Da Coach]

There are a lot of Drake fans who aren't happy with Phelps, and a lot of SIU fans who aren't happy with Lowery, and a lot of MSU fans who hated Barry, and on and on. As I said, very few replacements have the same success as a coach that was hired away by a BCS school. It more often returns a midmajor team to mediocrity.

 

[leebiddlecome]

There are a lot of Drake fans who aren't happy with Phelps, and a lot of SIU fans who aren't happy with Lowery, and a lot of MSU fans who hated Barry, and on and on. As I said, very few replacements have the same success as a coach that was hired away by a BCS school. It more often returns a midmajor team to mediocrity.

Which goes to show that they were pretty good coaches and that you just can't replace them that easily. It's tough to be like Butler and keep hitting home runs with your hire.

 

[BUFAN]

Which goes to show that they were pretty good coaches and that you just can't replace them that easily. It's tough to be like Butler and keep hitting home runs with your hire.

I'm not really certain where BS fits in but Butler had a system going for a long while. That is, develope coaches and promote from within. SIU was in that mode for a while and unless you have given up on Lowery they still do. My comment on SIU is it would be very hard to recruit the tallented border line BCS player into their system...

 

[Bravesfan]

To answer your question honestly, No, Bradley hasn't been in contention. I wish I could answer differently.

It has been over 8 years since BU played a February game (home or away) in which some form of first place (alone, tie, etc) was on the line. I love going to BU games but nothing is better than going to a late season game at Carver Arena knowing you have a chance to win the league and that you can see a potential first place team on a given night.

That hasn't happened in quite some time. Hopefully it changes soon but, as the title of the thread suggested, this league is going to be real good in the future and I hope BU is among the leaders there.

I don't know if we climb any higher in the standings next year due to CU, ISU and UNI bringing back most of their teams. But 20 or 21 wins next year may be good enough for the NCAA tournament whereas 20 wins this year would only be good for the NIT, if that!

With our non-conference schedule next year, and the potential for two to three top 50 teams in the Valley, there will be plenty of chances for us next year to get those quality wins. And to get to 20 wins, we are going to have to beat some good teams. So where we finish in the Valley next is not quite as important as who we beat and the number of wins, just like in 2006.

 

[Da Coach]

CU will be hurt more than it might seem by Dotzler and Woodfox leaving. Their other point guards, Cavel Witter and Antoine Young, are shoot-first point guards, and their team seems to stall a bit when they are running the point. I believe ISU will also be hurt significantly by losses of Holloway, Oguchi, and Sampay. They also don't have a likely 1st team All MVC player sitting out this year like Bradley does.

 

[Boiler]

That means

That means

CU will be hurt more than it might seem by Dotzler and Woodfox leaving. Their other point guards, Cavel Witter and Antoine Young, are shoot-first point guards, and their team seems to stall a bit when they are running the point. I believe ISU will also be hurt significantly by losses of Holloway, Oguchi, and Sampay. They also don't have a likely 1st team All MVC player sitting out this year like Bradley does.

BU will finish higher than CU & ISU next year? Is that what you're saying? That would be cool, to finish above 4th place for a change!

 

[Bravesfan]

I don't know that I share your opinion that the Valley is going to take this quantum leap forward next year and get back to anywhere near where we were as a conference in 2006.
There is a lot of young talent in this league, and all those young players will be a year better next season...
But:
- Creighton loses Woodfox.
- ISU loses Oguchi and Holloway.
- UNI doesn't lose anyone of real consequence, but they seem to be trending back closer to the team that everyone had predicted them to be...they'll be good, but I don't think they will be an NCAA type of team next year.
- BU loses Theron, and has nothing but question marks in the post next year.
- WSU brings back a lot of young talent, but I think they lose Clemente...
- SIU brings back a lot of young talent, but they lose Mullins and Boyle.

Next year, I think all six of those teams could be as good or better than they were this year...but to say that 3 or 4 of them are going to be good enough to build resumes to get NCAA at large bids?? I don't know if I would go that far.
We'll see...I think the conference will be better overall next year, but we have fallen way, way down from where we were as a conference in 2006...and that's a lot of ground to make up.

I'm saying they will have the potential to send three teams to the NCAA tournament, not that it definately will happen. But two is a pretty good bet which unless someone other than CU wins the Valley tournament probably won't happen this year.

Now everyone loses a key player or two, but most of those teams you mentioned bring back most of their current players. So I think all six of those teams have a good potential to get better, which is why I think at least three teams will be on the NCAA bubble, with a minimum of two making the tournament.

I never did say we would get four teams or even necessarily three teams into the tournament. What I did say was that we may not necessarily have to finish in first place to get an at-large bid. I can even see a scenerio where we go say 8-4 in nonconference play, which would mean we would have to beat several quality teams to accomplish this. As an example, let's say we hypothetically finish a strong third at 11-7 which would get us to 19-11. A win or two in the Valley tournament could get us an at-large bid with the schedule we will play. Who knows what will happen, and it will all depend on how many teams get better.

 

[BUBalum05]

Comparing ourselves to CU is admirable but its not the school, its the coach. I like what JL has done with the program but if you guys want more tournament results, we need a different system in place for our program. Gonzaga had a cinderella run before Mark Few, now they're here every year, just the same as Altman with CU. If we replace JL, we've got to find someone that isn't looking to move up to a bigger program and probably has Central IL ties. Unfortunately, JL fits the bill, he's just not producing year after year.

 

[Da Coach]

Well you can get in line behind the other half-dozen people here who keep telling us what great fans they are but that Jim Les has to go.

You are welcome to that opinion, and you should let the people at Bradley know about how you feel.
But I don't agree, and neither do ten thousand + other fans, and neither do the people at Bradley who make these decisions. Most people believe Jim Les is doing things the right way, recruiting good kids, graduating them, and taking the program the right direction. And nearly all Bradley fans and boosters believe Bradley's future is very bright.

I respect what Dana Altman has done, but....
Even the great Dana Altman didn't make it to the NCAA right away.
In fact, Jim Les took Bradley to the NCAA faster (4th season) than Altman took Creighton (5th season).
And Altman has never taken them to the Sweet 16, which Jim Les did in his first trip there.
Dana's NCAA record at Creighton is 2-7
And Dana's lost his last 4 NCAA games and 7 of his last 8;
While Jim Les is the only MVC coach with a winning NCAA record (2-1).

So I don't expect to change the minds of any Bradley detractors, or of anyone who thinks Bradley should get rid of Jim Les. But I am happy that is not the sentiment of any of the people who ultimately matter.

 

[Bradleyguy10]

Yeah I do agree that JL should stay at BU. No question about that. When you are a midmajor the best way to get a good coach is find one that is loyal and that will be with you for many many years. Then after some significant time things will fall nicely into place. We can't blame JL for too much of our basketball woes either. Things like recruiting for example are kind of out of his hands. He's doing well with what he has but he's not the coach of a BCS school where he's allowed to give them whatever they want to come here. It's an unlevel playing field nowadays and it'll never again be where kids can just choose where they want to go and not care if it's a BCS school or midmajor. BU has seen it's last "hersey hawkins". As for the NCAA tournament you basically have to win your tournament or be a top 5 midmajor to get in now also. It's harder now for midmajors to have the same "success". JL isn't responsible for that stuff...but he'll be a good coach when it comes down to other facets.

 

[Da Coach]

BU has seen it's last "hersey hawkins".

I hope that's not the case.

Maybe the next one is waiting over in Iowa for the chance to play.

 

[Bradleyguy10]

I hope so but I mean the current hersey hawkins is over at Davidson to be honest. I'd sh!t a brick if Bradley ever gets a player that averages over 25pts/game again!

It's nothing against Bradley...it's against the NCAA refusing to follow their own rules...this "student" athlete front bull crap they always put up..it's a joke. It's because of them that BCS schools are free to do w/e they want w/out consequence and therefore the recruits don't choose what they may want but choose based on money, but I guess those are the times now. People are more money driven than ever...even high schoolers. I guess I wouldn't want Bradley to recruit someone like that anyway, but it's just as disappointing.

We need Hayward type people. Diamonds in the rough.