We've heard so much from many sources about the unparalleled "athleticism" of this BU team. Perhaps true. But, I've yet to see any traces of the most important ingredients of a really good team ... heart, toughness (physical and mental) and team pride. Athleticism is mostly God-given. The rest has to be learned. At this point, there appears to be a lot of "learning" to be done. I think we're going to need a lot more patience than we thought for that to occur.
-
Welcome to BradleyFans.com! Visitors are welcome, but we encourage you to sign up and register as a member. It's free and takes only a few seconds. Just click on the link to Register at the top right of the page, and follow instructions. If you have any problems or questions, click on the link at the bottom right of the page to Contact Us.
BU 61 vs. UMKC 73
- Thread starter tornado
- Start date
jasonpeoria911
New member
All this talk about getting tall recruits for the next few years. I want some dang recruits that are proven shooters. I don't care if they are little 5 ft 5 farm boys, if they can shoot the rock, get them on this team. This team is going no where with the players we have right now. Defense sucks, offense sucks and shooting is colder than the Antarctic in mid winter. This team needs shooters and NOW.
Jason
Jason
ser_solace
New member
Heh. You guys think you're sick of this performance? I'm actually here in Fort Meyers getting to witness this firsthand. Man, it's embarrassing.
Coach Les needs to shake things up. Collins should not start. We were thinking that Collins gives us the best chance to win, but that's only if he's in the game. He's constantly in early foul trouble, and I think that's what is messing with the team. He only plays the first few minutes and gets yanked because of fouls.
The team probably has practiced a lot assuming Collins is going to be in the game. When he's out so early, they can't play like they usually practice.
It's not all on Collins though. We definitely don't have the shooters we used to. Just sucks right now. Heh. I've got to sit through two more games.
Coach Les needs to shake things up. Collins should not start. We were thinking that Collins gives us the best chance to win, but that's only if he's in the game. He's constantly in early foul trouble, and I think that's what is messing with the team. He only plays the first few minutes and gets yanked because of fouls.
The team probably has practiced a lot assuming Collins is going to be in the game. When he's out so early, they can't play like they usually practice.
It's not all on Collins though. We definitely don't have the shooters we used to. Just sucks right now. Heh. I've got to sit through two more games.
no more small ball....please!!!!!!!!!
BuBraves55
New member
it seemed like we didn't want to pass it enough....everyone just threw up forced shots and tried to run too much with 'em
I disagree. We do. It's just that the coach doesn't know what to do with size/interior players.
It's not like these are new problems unique to this year's team. That's what people have lost sight of.
That was a strength of the team the last two years. I don't know yet if it's selfishness or poor passing ability. If the former and the team continues to lose, it could get ugly. Fast.
BradleyBrave
New member
Hmm. I wonder if this team would finish in the top half of the MVC too? They are 2-0 against the league, so maybe they would.
All kidding aside, this was about as bad as it gets if you've been following the Braves the past 5-6 years. The only loss that trumps this is the Lubbock Christian loss, which ironically occurred in a Thanksgiving tournament as well.
There are some things you can control, and some things you can't control. You can control throwing the ball away against a passive zone, and you can control you well and how hard you play defense. BU was absolutely dreadful in both areas. Injuries are not an excuse for the careless ballhandling or the matador defense. I wish I could pinpoint one player as the primary culprit on the senseless turnovers, but it was a team-wide epidemic. No one had more than 3, but every player had 1, and only 3 players had less than 2. We aren't a good shooting team this year, but that doesn't mean we can't score and doesn't mean we should turn the ball over 23 times a game against a zone defense. With us not being able to shoot and not having any inside presence, plan on seeing a lot of zone this year.
What bothers me most though, is the defense. Our team defensive fundamentals are so p-ss poor. They've been awful for the last two years, and show no signs of getting better. If we're going to overplay and go for 'deflections', etc. then the rest of the team needs to be able to play helpside when someone overcommits or doesn't get a hand on the ball. We overplay every passing lane and get torched backdoor, and we play too close on the ball and get beaten off the dribble. Teams take charges, our guys watch guys do layup drills (emphasis on 'watch'). Unfortunately, with this kind of defense being the norm rather than the exception over the past 6 years, I don't see this getting better, regardless of who comes back or who gets cleared. Teams aren't just 'getting lucky' every night shooting over 50% regardless of what some would have you believe.
We outrebounded them, we shot 12 more free throws than them, we caused 21 turnovers, we got 5 more shots on goal than they did. Normally, that should equate into a double-digit Bradley win against any level of competition, not a 12 point loss (and it wasn't even that close). Injuries aren't an excuse to lose to a team like UMKC, and aren't an excuse to be deficient in the areas we're deficient in, which is ballhandling and defense. The good news is that it's only the 3rd game of the year. The bad news is that our problems aren't ones that I think just one player can fix. Tomorrow needs to be a win, I don't care if it's by 1 or 100.
All kidding aside, this was about as bad as it gets if you've been following the Braves the past 5-6 years. The only loss that trumps this is the Lubbock Christian loss, which ironically occurred in a Thanksgiving tournament as well.
There are some things you can control, and some things you can't control. You can control throwing the ball away against a passive zone, and you can control you well and how hard you play defense. BU was absolutely dreadful in both areas. Injuries are not an excuse for the careless ballhandling or the matador defense. I wish I could pinpoint one player as the primary culprit on the senseless turnovers, but it was a team-wide epidemic. No one had more than 3, but every player had 1, and only 3 players had less than 2. We aren't a good shooting team this year, but that doesn't mean we can't score and doesn't mean we should turn the ball over 23 times a game against a zone defense. With us not being able to shoot and not having any inside presence, plan on seeing a lot of zone this year.
What bothers me most though, is the defense. Our team defensive fundamentals are so p-ss poor. They've been awful for the last two years, and show no signs of getting better. If we're going to overplay and go for 'deflections', etc. then the rest of the team needs to be able to play helpside when someone overcommits or doesn't get a hand on the ball. We overplay every passing lane and get torched backdoor, and we play too close on the ball and get beaten off the dribble. Teams take charges, our guys watch guys do layup drills (emphasis on 'watch'). Unfortunately, with this kind of defense being the norm rather than the exception over the past 6 years, I don't see this getting better, regardless of who comes back or who gets cleared. Teams aren't just 'getting lucky' every night shooting over 50% regardless of what some would have you believe.
We outrebounded them, we shot 12 more free throws than them, we caused 21 turnovers, we got 5 more shots on goal than they did. Normally, that should equate into a double-digit Bradley win against any level of competition, not a 12 point loss (and it wasn't even that close). Injuries aren't an excuse to lose to a team like UMKC, and aren't an excuse to be deficient in the areas we're deficient in, which is ballhandling and defense. The good news is that it's only the 3rd game of the year. The bad news is that our problems aren't ones that I think just one player can fix. Tomorrow needs to be a win, I don't care if it's by 1 or 100.
MacabreMob
New member
I haven't lost sight of it Squirrel.
I think the 06-07 team and what Coach did with the players he had was awesome.
I yearn for the more traditional lineup along with a collection of players that are athletic and can compete against the 3-4 guard athletic teams if we need to play "small ball".
What I personally think is.... the excitement of the "small ball" and the excitement from games won from the 06-07 team and the 07-08 team has been the driving component for the Coach and University. They are promoting that excitement. Don't get me wrong - when it works, it is REALLY exciting. So this is the product being sold... not just to fans and season ticket holders, but to recruits.
Understand - I LIKE THE EXCITEMENT...... when it is exciting.
I just want to see another "genius" coaching change from the staff. We have things to fix - let's fix 'em.
Understood. And as one of the more level, balanced BU fans, I am aware of that. And it appears if there will be a breakthru, we'll have to wait until February again to see it. And that is a shame.
I guess what irritates me the most about this game today is that UMKC again used basically the same two plays all game and beat BU. That tells me that the staff didn't scout UMKC in preparation for this season (it was a known opponent) or if they did, whoever did should never scout another opponent.
I guess what irritates me the most about this game today is that UMKC again used basically the same two plays all game and beat BU. That tells me that the staff didn't scout UMKC in preparation for this season (it was a known opponent) or if they did, whoever did should never scout another opponent.
BradleyBrave
New member
Agree 100%. We did a fantastic job of adjusting to our personnel in '06-'07, and it resulted in a wonderful season that no one could have seen coming. Had we tried to force that '06-'07 team into the style of play that the Sweet 16 team played, we'd have probably lost more than we won. The same holds true for this team. This team is not equipped to play the 4 guard, perimeter-based, 3-point reliant style of basketball. We don't have the shooters, we have athletes. What we are equipped to do is press and trap on defense (although we can scheme to death on defense if our principles continue to suck then it doesn't matter what we do), and run hi-low on offense, or something that takes advantage of our length and athleticism. Right now we're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole on offense, and it's very difficult to watch.
MacabreMob
New member
Oh - C'mon Squirrel - you call yourself one of the more level/balanced fans... and you aren't even a real fan.
You =
Dude - I am just kidding!!! LOL!
I agree with you. This is what disappoints me. Somebody didn't do their homework.
Oh - C'mon Squirrel - you call yourself one of the more level/balanced fans... and you aren't even a real fan.
You =
Dude - I am just kidding!!! LOL!
I agree with you. This is what disappoints me. Somebody didn't do their homework.
No--that comment was for you in all sincerity.
MacabreMob
New member
Whoa - you stickin a fork in me? I was joking and you don't even give me a wink?
I feel dissed.
Last edited:
Totally agree. The consistent lack of defensive fundamentals on this team in the Les Era is maddening.
This hyper-aggressive, overplaying, gambling, deflection-seeking defensive philosophy that Les puts in place every year simply doesn't work. For every one of his coveted deflections that we turn into an easy score the other way, we give up 5 easy scores to the other team on back doors where we overplay and get burnt and on easy drives to the basket where we don't rotate and help.
We watch our guards play too tight on the other team's ballhandlers and allow drive after drive for uncontested layups...We watch this week after week after week...Where are the adjustments? Where is the help side defender? IF SM continues to guard tight and get beat...why do they not teach him to give a cushion to the ballhandler...why do they not bring a second guy over to double the ball and make the guy give it up? Something? Anything?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. That is how I feel watching this BU team try to play defense.
This team is an awful, awful man-to-man defensive team, yet that is all we are capable of playing? We switch to zone one time in each game and the other team makes two passes and get a wide open three. And then immediately back to the matador man-to-man defense that we play.
Insanity...personified.
SaintLouBrave22
New member
You hit the nail directly on the head....
And see, you thought I didn't agree w/ you
Really though, that is a perfect depiction of what is wrong w/ this team and the coaching staff and well, maybe you should hand that off to Dave Reynolds or Kirk Wessler...
At least I know that even though I don't like KW or agree w/ him, its more than likely he'll have something to say about all of this...
I'm just glad this constructive critique is pouring out.. And I know it required an embarrassing loss and a weak start to precipitate it. (Nothing against tonight's opponent intended)
... That being said, it's the perfect time to look at our philosophy...
I love the energy and excitement of our offensive scheme.. It's fun to cheer for and I'm certain it'd be great to play in it... But it renders us one-dimensional and vulnerable.. and this is exacerbated by the fact that we can't shoot a lick. One dimension and we're poor at it??
Great teams can go small and run... but teams that win CHAMPIONSHIPS don't play like this for any considerable stretch. They're capable of going small and fast.. but they are marked by SOLID defensive intensity and execution, taking care of the ball, and a willingness to commit to the paint and the foul line. They just go small to change the tempo and throw off opposing defenses. If we want to win league titles, it's gotta change. I know this system developed out of the loss of several big fellas and an overabundance of great shooters.. But now it's time to change. I love watching our system, but I think all you hoop junkies out there know what I'm saying is true.
... That being said, it's the perfect time to look at our philosophy...
I love the energy and excitement of our offensive scheme.. It's fun to cheer for and I'm certain it'd be great to play in it... But it renders us one-dimensional and vulnerable.. and this is exacerbated by the fact that we can't shoot a lick. One dimension and we're poor at it??
Great teams can go small and run... but teams that win CHAMPIONSHIPS don't play like this for any considerable stretch. They're capable of going small and fast.. but they are marked by SOLID defensive intensity and execution, taking care of the ball, and a willingness to commit to the paint and the foul line. They just go small to change the tempo and throw off opposing defenses. If we want to win league titles, it's gotta change. I know this system developed out of the loss of several big fellas and an overabundance of great shooters.. But now it's time to change. I love watching our system, but I think all you hoop junkies out there know what I'm saying is true.
SaintLouBrave22
New member
Its like watching the movie Groundhog Day for me...
Oh, and you guys forgot the "running like chicken w/ my head cut off" to rotate but basically chase guys around the floor until I leave a wide open 3 plays....yeah, you know, the ones that Kreps massacred us on in the first game...
And I'm almost certain I will nightmares tonight of the Hamilton ISO on Maniscalco...
Along w/ that, I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where someone had as many offensive rebounds as Theron did and not a single defensive one...just odd...
Oh...and I'll leave you with a parting gift...someone make sure this makes it to the team conference room tomorrow:
David Collins 0-2 FG 1-2 FT 2 RB 3 TO 3 FOULS 1 PT 13 MIN
Will Egolf 1-1 FG 2 RB (1 OFF) 1 TO 1 FOUL 2 PTS 7 MIN
Now explain to me again why DC is entitled to so much more time...
BradleyBrave
New member
Hard to argue with this. I can't see a better time than right now to throw Egolf an opportunity and not lose the kid permanently. Honestly, what do we have to lose?