I would bet none of us on this board really know what happens in recruiting and who are the biggest sleaze bags out there. The media I bet has a lot to do with perception.
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Calipari accepts Kentucky Job
- Thread starter PeoriaLou
- Start date
I would bet none of us on this board really know what happens in recruiting and who are the biggest sleaze bags out there. The media I bet has a lot to do with perception.
I'd bet that a lot of us younger fans do. Many of us have friends who were recruited out of high school to go play college sports. Particularly college basketball for me... Even some very highly rated players. Also, I don't really think the media has much of a benefit to making some coaches look clean vs. others. I think they pretty much cover up everything so public interest is high, until the point that they can't and then it's a big story. So, if nothing else, if we hear about the slime, it's gotta be pretty bad...
BradleyBrave
New member
Huh? Bill Self does the same stuff Calipari has done. He's just doing it at a school that's the NCAA doesn't want to hurt and at a time where the NCAA doesn't really care. Most people in Illinois don't want to know what went into building the team that was national runner-up. It was the same stuff that went into building Kansas's national title team...the first team ever to win a title while on probation.
While Calipari is as dirty as they come in college hoops today, I find it hard to dislike him on a personal level. I do like that he took two non-BCS teams to title games (and we all know what he had to stoop to in order to make that happen), and that he tried to stick up for the non-BCS schools when it came to scheduling and getting into the tournament. It will be interesting to see how he schedules and what his thoughts on mid-majors are now that he's at the helm of one of college basketball's elite programs.
I think it begs the ultimate question though about integrity vs. winning. At BU, would you trade what appears to be a program of true 'student athletes' and for the most part good kids for one like Memphis - Where kids are on the take, off-the-court issues are overlooked, graduation is non-existent, package deals are the norm, and you win 30+ games, get a 1 or 2 seed, and compete for national titles? I don't think it's as easy of a question to answer as some think.
leebiddlecome
New member
Huh? Bill Self does the same stuff Calipari has done. He's just doing it at a school that's the NCAA doesn't want to hurt and at a time where the NCAA doesn't really care. Most people in Illinois don't want to know what went into building the team that was national runner-up. It was the same stuff that went into building Kansas's national title team...the first team ever to win a title while on probation.
While Calipari is as dirty as they come in college hoops today, I find it hard to dislike him on a personal level. I do like that he took two non-BCS teams to title games (and we all know what he had to stoop to in order to make that happen), and that he tried to stick up for the non-BCS schools when it came to scheduling and getting into the tournament. It will be interesting to see how he schedules and what his thoughts on mid-majors are now that he's at the helm of one of college basketball's elite programs.
I think it begs the ultimate question though about integrity vs. winning. At BU, would you trade what appears to be a program of true 'student athletes' and for the most part good kids for one like Memphis - Where kids are on the take, off-the-court issues are overlooked, graduation is non-existent, package deals are the norm, and you win 30+ games, get a 1 or 2 seed, and compete for national titles? I don't think it's as easy of a question to answer as some think.
BradleyBrave---all of the seniors on the Memphis roster are on track to graduate in four years. Pretty impressive. I realize he has had some bad apples but he also had a lot of classy kids at Memphis.
I think people see Calipari, his look, the way his teams plays, the "Memphis persona", and then looks at the TYPE of players he has and assumes they are all crooks, on the take, bad guys.
Sometimes perception isn't reality. I never saw the recent Memphis teams being out of control, running-gunning, undisciplined guys. They played very hard, were well schooled, and disciplined as heck. Yes, Joey Dorsey was a nut but a lot of team has a loose cannon type guy.
I think Calipari is as good as they come.
BradleyBrave
New member
A few year's back during Calipari's tenure Memphis had a graduation rate of 0%. Perhaps it's improved, I don't know.
I don't think all of his players are crooks, but I know what it takes to get players the caliber that he's getting to go and play at Memphis in crappy Conference USA over schools like Kansas, UNC, UCLA, etc. I know what it took to get Derrick Rose. It's not the way things are supposed to work in college athletics.
I never said he was a bad coach or that his teams were undisciplined. They always looked very well coached to me. Like I said, I like the guy personally. But I am not fooled either.
But...I would take him and everything he brings to BU in a second.
I guess that's why I am so much more patient with BU than most of the students. I love the players that come play at BU, and I like to be proud that a lot of our players go on to do things other than basketball. I like to use Zach Andrews as an example, a guy like him would never have gotten recruited to a bigger school. But his attitude and personality were just amazing. He was one of the nicest guys I've run across at BU. I'm not going to pretend like we were great friends by any means, which is even more impressive that he always seemed to remember mine and other fans names.
I'm no Cali-pologist, but he did talk about this is in his press conference today:
Calipari spoke of academics and graduation rates. He said that when he took over at the University of Massachusetts the graduation rate was 15 percent; when he left it was 80 percent. He said when he took the Memphis job their graduation rate was 0 percent and when he left 19 of 22 seniors had graduated.
http://kykernel.com/2009/04/01/columnist-calipari-passes-ambassador-test/
Hmm... Well there is a new NCAA report on graduation rates for teams in the NCAA tournament. The report shows that Memphis has a 55% graduation rate for their basketball student athletes.
http://www.knightcommission.org/inde...sk=view&id=274
http://www.knightcommission.org/inde...sk=view&id=274
I suspect Calipari is only counting the kids who stay there through their 4th or 5th years. Of course, all schools graduation rates looks better if you only count those who complete their time in school.
The NCAA counts all kids who have attended the school, regardless of their reasons for leaving. So the kids that transfer or go pro count against a school by the NCAA formula.
The NCAA counts all kids who have attended the school, regardless of their reasons for leaving. So the kids that transfer or go pro count against a school by the NCAA formula.
leebiddlecome
New member
And many of his recruits go pro early--thus hurting the graduation rate. Im with BBrave--I would take Calipari and all he has accomplished at Bradley any day of the week and twice on Sunday 
T, that report makes a person appreciate schools like Marquette and Wake Forrest. There are other good graduation rates in that report, but those are the only two I remember.
Ask Scouter about the media. They can paint you with a little twisting of words anyway they want. I will not doubt you that you have some inside knowledge on how some programs recruit but the knowledge of the vast majority of programs is probably only known by a handful of individuals. The process used is probably a very guarded secret so as not to get caught from impropriety.
I do not believe for one second that cheating does not go on in at least 80% of the BCS schools. It's not that the media does not care, it is that they do not have the time or resources to validate what they think is happening and will go after the low hanging fruits or those coaches that seem to have a target on their back.
Perception becomes reality and the media are the ones who control 99% of the information that is disseminated. Capalari is one of many coaches who does what they think they can to win. I look at Kansas, UCONN and USC as worst trangressors and if you read the press you would think they run extremely clean programs. UCONN's trouble has already slipped out of the mainstream press!
I still can't blame the media for this. It's a KNOWN FACT that Bush and Mayo got huge paydays at USC. And everyone on here wants to blame the media??? At the end of the day it's the NCAA's responsibility to patrol their members... Maybe I'm way off here, but I don't think what I consider 'cheating' is running rampant as much as some. Yeah, maybe talking to a kid who's a freshman etc. (don't think JL doesn't do this...), but paying kids and giving them cars and such? I just don't believe its really that common.