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cpacmel
- Thread starter dogsrus
- Start date
tornado said:
Maybe because he plays in Chicago and each voter only gets 3 votes for Mr. Basketball.
With Sherron Collins, Patrick Beverly and Derrick Rose all being in the CPL....and Eldridge being behind those 3 talent wise, it is no surprise that he didn't get any votes.
And with Phillips playing the majority of their games in the city, getting press outside of Chicago was pretty tough for him. (trust me, I know this, because I tried to follow him as close as I could this season)
Explain this to me then Tornado:
Eldridge is 3rd team All-State, Jeff Ryan is Honorable Mention All-State, but Jeff Ryan gets 5 total points for Mr. Basketball?
Even take it a step further, Mike Capocci from Glenbard West wasn't even HONORABLE MENTION All-State! But he got 4 votes for Mr. Basketball.
You have your doubts about Eldridge. That's cool, that's your opioion. But to say the kid can't play because he didn't get any votes for Mr. Basketball isn't right. I can link you to a few sites that have Eldridge as one of the top 15 seniors in the state. I can also link you to where Florida, Cal and Marquette were all after him, if that helps his street value
tornado
New member
I am glad you asked me to compare Devan Bawinkel's Winnebago team to Osiris Eldridge's Phillips team.
Bawinkel literally carried his team to State again for the third year, despite having very little talent on the team besides Devan.
(remember, the games in the Sweet Sixteen are all considered "State" even though only the Elite Eight make it to Carver.)
Unlike Chicago Phillips, Winnebago this season won 24 of their 26 regular season games.
They finished their regular season 24-2, 10-0 in conference and ranked #6 in the state. (one of their losses was to a ranked Class AA team)
As for using the strength of Simeon and Marshall to boost your argument about Phillips is hard to follow.
Eldridge and his team did not play many of the stronger teams in Chicago, and they lost every time they did.
Winnebago then swept through their Regional as champions, and won their Sectional quite easliy, having only one post season game all the way to Supersectional that was even within 20 points margin.
They lost their Supersectional to the ultimate State Champions Seneca to finish the season 28-3, a far, far cry from the sub-.500 record Phillips had, and their one-and-done showing in the state tourney.
*********************************
Also, one more thing cpac....as I am sure we are both loyal to our teams and a bit biased by our loyalties, but this whole debate is eerily similar to the ones I have had with ISU fans each of the past 3-4 years.
Maybe you even remember some of these debates, but most were on the other board. I will remind you....
4 years ago.... I debated whether the Jim Les hire was good or bad. Most ISU fans sided with the Wayne McClain supporters and thought it was bad and one particular, prominent ISU fan on the PJS board was very vocal in saying Les wouldn't last long and without D-I experience would get eaten alive in the Valley. I think THIS is one debate that the facts have now proven me right.
3 years ago when BU brought in Marcellus Sommerville & Daniel Ruffin, I had a lively debate with several of the other board's ISU fans about who was better...and who would have more impact...
Sommerville...or....Najeeb Echols
Ruffin....or....anyone ISU put on the floor
...........Well--case closed on both of those arguments...I think I was right and the ISU guys who laughed at my predictions were so dead wrong that now they try to deny their claims (especially the ridiculous one about Echols).
2 years ago, after a disappointing season by the Braves, the ISU fans snickered at any hint that Bradley had better recruits than ISU.
After all, BU had a couple of unheralded jucos (Wright & Bennett) and a big clumsy guy from Minnesota. ISU was going to bring in a top point guard and post player and would contend for the MVC title.
Turns out the point guard went elsewhere, and ISU, even with it's strong senior guards and newcomer of the year still finished only one game ahead of BU in the standings. Meanwhile, that big, clumsy senter started drawing NBA scouts to watch him and that "newcomer of the year" flunked out of school.
Considering both BU & ISU finished disappointingly, at least BU fans had something to look forward to.
Then last year came a big debate with some of the ISU posters (esp. bb Fan) who said the Redbirds' prospects for 2005-2006 was far, far better than the Braves'. They said they'd still rather have what they had coming back over what BU had.
This seemd like an insane argument, but then what the hey----even most of the supposedly pro BU people on the PJS board didn't think BU had a chance of more than maybe an NIT bid.
Again, I think I won that debate....so in four years, I feel I can now debate from the confident standpoint of being 4 for 4 in debates over the past 4 years.
So I am not yet sold on packing up the Newcomer of the Year trophy and putting Osiris' address on it yet.
Let's wait and see.........
Bawinkel literally carried his team to State again for the third year, despite having very little talent on the team besides Devan.
(remember, the games in the Sweet Sixteen are all considered "State" even though only the Elite Eight make it to Carver.)
Unlike Chicago Phillips, Winnebago this season won 24 of their 26 regular season games.
They finished their regular season 24-2, 10-0 in conference and ranked #6 in the state. (one of their losses was to a ranked Class AA team)
As for using the strength of Simeon and Marshall to boost your argument about Phillips is hard to follow.
Eldridge and his team did not play many of the stronger teams in Chicago, and they lost every time they did.
Winnebago then swept through their Regional as champions, and won their Sectional quite easliy, having only one post season game all the way to Supersectional that was even within 20 points margin.
They lost their Supersectional to the ultimate State Champions Seneca to finish the season 28-3, a far, far cry from the sub-.500 record Phillips had, and their one-and-done showing in the state tourney.
*********************************
Also, one more thing cpac....as I am sure we are both loyal to our teams and a bit biased by our loyalties, but this whole debate is eerily similar to the ones I have had with ISU fans each of the past 3-4 years.
Maybe you even remember some of these debates, but most were on the other board. I will remind you....
4 years ago.... I debated whether the Jim Les hire was good or bad. Most ISU fans sided with the Wayne McClain supporters and thought it was bad and one particular, prominent ISU fan on the PJS board was very vocal in saying Les wouldn't last long and without D-I experience would get eaten alive in the Valley. I think THIS is one debate that the facts have now proven me right.
3 years ago when BU brought in Marcellus Sommerville & Daniel Ruffin, I had a lively debate with several of the other board's ISU fans about who was better...and who would have more impact...
Sommerville...or....Najeeb Echols
Ruffin....or....anyone ISU put on the floor
...........Well--case closed on both of those arguments...I think I was right and the ISU guys who laughed at my predictions were so dead wrong that now they try to deny their claims (especially the ridiculous one about Echols).
2 years ago, after a disappointing season by the Braves, the ISU fans snickered at any hint that Bradley had better recruits than ISU.
After all, BU had a couple of unheralded jucos (Wright & Bennett) and a big clumsy guy from Minnesota. ISU was going to bring in a top point guard and post player and would contend for the MVC title.
Turns out the point guard went elsewhere, and ISU, even with it's strong senior guards and newcomer of the year still finished only one game ahead of BU in the standings. Meanwhile, that big, clumsy senter started drawing NBA scouts to watch him and that "newcomer of the year" flunked out of school.
Considering both BU & ISU finished disappointingly, at least BU fans had something to look forward to.
Then last year came a big debate with some of the ISU posters (esp. bb Fan) who said the Redbirds' prospects for 2005-2006 was far, far better than the Braves'. They said they'd still rather have what they had coming back over what BU had.
This seemd like an insane argument, but then what the hey----even most of the supposedly pro BU people on the PJS board didn't think BU had a chance of more than maybe an NIT bid.
Again, I think I won that debate....so in four years, I feel I can now debate from the confident standpoint of being 4 for 4 in debates over the past 4 years.
So I am not yet sold on packing up the Newcomer of the Year trophy and putting Osiris' address on it yet.
Let's wait and see.........
DannyCooksey
New member
Tornado..........
yep let's wait and see. I don't like comparing Class A to Class AA either. I think it's foolish. But......... since you insist: Bawinkel will get destroyed at West Virginia. I think the kid has outkicked his coverage with that choice. A freshman embarrased him in his last highschool game as well. Totally dominated him to the point that Bawinkel became so frustrated he started a fight and was summarily ejected. he finished 17 points below his average. not good.
Eldridge will be just fine regardless of his non-impact in Mr.
Basketball voting. Or all-state consideration or anything else.
Shawn Jeppson finished 5th in Mr.Basketball his senior year. The others???
Q Richardson, Magette, Joey Range, I can't remember the other guy. Would you put Jeppson in their class as a player??? Only if you were very very stoned.
Jepp had a solid 4 year career but wasn't even close to being as good as these guys were at the same age. Yet Jepp was far more effective than Range in college. the other 2 are NBA mainstays.
Translation: Mr. Basketball doesn't mean jack $hit. Certainly doesn't make or break someone in regards to whether they can play or not.
Phillips sucked this year, he did the best he could despite the circumstances and talent around him.
Garrett Callahan (Seneca) had a tremendous High School career. Two-time allstater (1st team) finished with an unbeaten state title. he will get a scholarship somewhere. Prob D-II.
Because his team was far superior and he had many more individual accolades than Eldridge, does that make him the better college prospect???
No
If Eldridge tanks, (doubtful) then we will all know you were right all along. I can tell you this there are many many more people that like Eldridge's game/talent than do not.
I know Jim Les liked his game quite a bit. I am not being a smart-a$$ here, but we can all agree that Les wanted Eldridge badly, right??? Les has proven to be a shrewd talent evaluator/recruiter. If he liked his game and wanted him badly, isn't that enough to satisfy you as to his ability and potential???
yep let's wait and see. I don't like comparing Class A to Class AA either. I think it's foolish. But......... since you insist: Bawinkel will get destroyed at West Virginia. I think the kid has outkicked his coverage with that choice. A freshman embarrased him in his last highschool game as well. Totally dominated him to the point that Bawinkel became so frustrated he started a fight and was summarily ejected. he finished 17 points below his average. not good.
Eldridge will be just fine regardless of his non-impact in Mr.
Basketball voting. Or all-state consideration or anything else.
Shawn Jeppson finished 5th in Mr.Basketball his senior year. The others???
Q Richardson, Magette, Joey Range, I can't remember the other guy. Would you put Jeppson in their class as a player??? Only if you were very very stoned.
Jepp had a solid 4 year career but wasn't even close to being as good as these guys were at the same age. Yet Jepp was far more effective than Range in college. the other 2 are NBA mainstays.
Translation: Mr. Basketball doesn't mean jack $hit. Certainly doesn't make or break someone in regards to whether they can play or not.
Phillips sucked this year, he did the best he could despite the circumstances and talent around him.
Garrett Callahan (Seneca) had a tremendous High School career. Two-time allstater (1st team) finished with an unbeaten state title. he will get a scholarship somewhere. Prob D-II.
Because his team was far superior and he had many more individual accolades than Eldridge, does that make him the better college prospect???
No
If Eldridge tanks, (doubtful) then we will all know you were right all along. I can tell you this there are many many more people that like Eldridge's game/talent than do not.
I know Jim Les liked his game quite a bit. I am not being a smart-a$$ here, but we can all agree that Les wanted Eldridge badly, right??? Les has proven to be a shrewd talent evaluator/recruiter. If he liked his game and wanted him badly, isn't that enough to satisfy you as to his ability and potential???
tornado
New member
I never said Eldridge would "tank", and you know it.
Go back and see that all i said is that it will be hard to live up to the expectations,
as some have already said he will be ISU's best player, he will be a starter, he will be NOY, he will be a star in the Valley.
I am just not yet convinced and said why.
When Bawinkel had one bad game, you say he was embarrassed by a freshman (even though Evans was not the only player guarding
Devan)
You failed to note that the team that beat Bawinkel's team went on to beat all but one of its opponents on the way to a STATE TITLE by pretty healthy margins.
Did Phillips get embarrassed by the state champ on its way in the playoffs?? Of course not--they never even got out of their own regional.
No, they actually got a pretty favorable #8 seed in their region even though their record could hardly have supported being seeded #8 out of 21 teams.
Phillips must have had few other representatives in their pockets when they went to the seeding meeting.
None the less, even though they had a nice seed, they couldn't do a thing.
By the way, Osiris didn't do nearly as well this year in the Dunk Contest, and failed to even advance beyond the preliminary round to defend his title.
Go back and see that all i said is that it will be hard to live up to the expectations,
as some have already said he will be ISU's best player, he will be a starter, he will be NOY, he will be a star in the Valley.
I am just not yet convinced and said why.
When Bawinkel had one bad game, you say he was embarrassed by a freshman (even though Evans was not the only player guarding
Devan)
You failed to note that the team that beat Bawinkel's team went on to beat all but one of its opponents on the way to a STATE TITLE by pretty healthy margins.
Did Phillips get embarrassed by the state champ on its way in the playoffs?? Of course not--they never even got out of their own regional.
No, they actually got a pretty favorable #8 seed in their region even though their record could hardly have supported being seeded #8 out of 21 teams.
Phillips must have had few other representatives in their pockets when they went to the seeding meeting.
None the less, even though they had a nice seed, they couldn't do a thing.
By the way, Osiris didn't do nearly as well this year in the Dunk Contest, and failed to even advance beyond the preliminary round to defend his title.
DannyCooksey
New member
who cares???
DannyCooksey
New member
you are correct they lost to the 3rd place team. Marshall. is that embarrasing????
DannyCooksey
New member
yep. he didn't get any Mr. Basketball votes and the compettiton he played was weak and that his team sucked.
plus the summer events are non-defense leagues. the dunks are a product of that. he had inflated stats because of a poor team. he didn't dominate.
he did a bad job at this year's dunk contest, too.
I am sure you are relieved you won't have this guy on your team. I get it.
tornado
New member
It would have been a chance to prove something.
So tell me how a 34 point loss by Eldridge's team is somehow worse than the 35 point loss by Bawinkel's team.
(by the way, the win by Marshall over Phillips was Marshall's
6th biggest blowout of the entire season and by far the biggest bnolwout over any team they
played with an opponent who was All-CPL.)
Marshall is a team that was given very little recognition preseason,
and has basically only one "star", somewhat like Phillips.
My simple point is that all the excuses I hear for why Osiris' team did so poorly is because he didn't have anyone else to help him.
But I have shown lots of other top players (Bawinkel, Beverley, etc.) who also had very little else on their teams, but didn't use that as an excuse to finish with a dismal record.
Instead they stepped it up, helped make their teammates better, carried their teams, and made something out of the season.
So tell me how a 34 point loss by Eldridge's team is somehow worse than the 35 point loss by Bawinkel's team.
(by the way, the win by Marshall over Phillips was Marshall's
6th biggest blowout of the entire season and by far the biggest bnolwout over any team they
played with an opponent who was All-CPL.)
Marshall is a team that was given very little recognition preseason,
and has basically only one "star", somewhat like Phillips.
My simple point is that all the excuses I hear for why Osiris' team did so poorly is because he didn't have anyone else to help him.
But I have shown lots of other top players (Bawinkel, Beverley, etc.) who also had very little else on their teams, but didn't use that as an excuse to finish with a dismal record.
Instead they stepped it up, helped make their teammates better, carried their teams, and made something out of the season.
DannyCooksey
New member
I get it. You don't think Eldridge can play. That's fine.
Peace.
Brave4life
New member
Stop it...don't you-
Hey quit pointing that thing at me...
He poked me first...
MOM!!!!
Agree to disagree and lets all get back to class, teacher has milk and cookies for us.
Hey quit pointing that thing at me...
He poked me first...
MOM!!!!
Agree to disagree and lets all get back to class, teacher has milk and cookies for us.
I don't think I was posting or even reading back 3-4 years ago. But I will take your word for it.tornado said:
And truth be told, I think alot of BU fans were probably thinking the same way about the Jim Les hire back when it happened.
That is just speculation on my part though.
Well you have that going for you!
I would remind you of a few months ago, when you said the NCAA was investigating Porter for illegal recruiting....you even said you would email me with the details....still nothing......
So does that make you 4 for 5 then?
tornado
New member
cpacmel said:[
I would remind you of a few months ago, when you said the NCAA was investigating Porter for illegal recruiting....you even said you would email me with the details....still nothing......
So does that make you 4 for 5 then?
I actually have those details and will PM you.