Crybabies

[Bravesfan]

Aside from the money the NIT gets broader coverage from the media and is more of a known entity to potential recruits. In addtion playing at MSG would be amazing and I would love the chance to see BU play thier.

Good points, but the CBI will hopefully gain a reputation in the coming years and truly compete with the NIT in coverage. Also, I would much rather have a shot at winning a championship on my home court than at a half empty MSG.

 

[Dallas Brave]

If most of the people attending the game than were students than the parking number might be a little high. Using the same logic the refeshments might be high also since they dont serve beer.

I assumed that of the 16,000+ plus that bought a ticket, two-thrids of them were students. I think that assumption is conservative since the first game was played during spring break.

 

[Bravesfan]

I assumed that of the 16,000+ plus that bought a ticket, two-thrids of them were students. I think that assumption is conservative since the first game was played during spring break.

Probably true. However, to follow up on my previous question, how does the $60,000 get distributed? Does the first $60,000 all go to the CBI people and then the CBI and the host school split anything over the first $60,000? I know it's been talked about before, but I forgot how the revenue would be distributed.

 

[ph]

1) TV contract, NIT has a way, way, way better TV deal with the ESPN family and is available to more casual viewers, you know for certain, well ahead of time where the games will be on your TV "dial"...

2) NIT finals, playing at the Garden is a "cooler", more historicallly significant destination. than the 3 game finals concept. (although the teams got louder cheering playing at home)

3) better teams, better overall media coverage goes to the NIT

4) the NIT means something to fans that know Bradley's proud basketball history.

That said, the CBI has turned out better than expected, and I am very glad what the CBI has done for Bradley, this year.

 

[Dallas Brave]

Good points, but the CBI will hopefully gain a reputation in the coming years and truly compete with the NIT in coverage. Also, I would much rather have a shot at winning a championship on my home court than at a half empty MSG.

It should become more economical for teams in the future to play. Next year, the Gazelle Group can probably negotiate a better media contract and defray some of the participating costs.

 

[Scouter]

Also, I would much rather have a shot at winning a championship on my home court than at a half empty MSG.

I agree with you there, but from a recruiting standpoint I think it would be more beneficial to play in NYC and on ESPN where basically everyone in the country could watch than in Peoria or Tulsa on Fox College Sports where most people here can't even watch the game from their home.

 

[Dallas Brave]

Probably true. However, to follow up on my previous question, how does the $60,000 get distributed? Does the first $60,000 all go to the CBI people and then the CBI and the host school split anything over the first $60,000? I know it's been talked about before, but I forgot how the revenue would be distributed.

I was assuming that the Gazelle Group kept the $60,000 per home game fee. They put this together to make a profit for themselves.

I am also assuming the the NCAA is a non-profit organization and is required to distribute meda revenue back to the member schools ... i.e, the root of the evil emanating from the BCS conferences ... greed.

 

[Da Coach]

This money argument is bogus. Virginia, even without making the NCAA or NIT will probably make more money from their share of the distribution of the payout from the NCAA games by North Carolina, Duke, Clemson, and Miami, than the entire MVC will make from the NCAA this year. By the MVC getting only 1 team and 1 first round game, the share that will go to Bradley will be miniscule.
And if money was such a worry for the Cavaliers, they could have just requested to be a road team throughout the tournament, or just declined to participate at all. They knew full well what the costs were. But if they were a road team, then maybe they wouldn't have been as likely to win a game. So to pick up a couple wins, they were OK with the cost of the tournament. Now they are whining about losing money. And they definitely are whining. Here is another, different article all about the same woeful story of losing money in the CBI.
How do you think that multiple newspapers wrote similar stories? Just a coincidence? Obviously, the Virginia people wanted to get the story out about how they lost money. That is whining!
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/uvabasketball/wb/156219

Plus, Virginia has an athletic department budget and expenditures of over $64 million per year. And being a state school, they have very little worries about where that money comes from, and how they acquire it. Anytime thay need a new facility, they know the money will be made available, and they have tens of thousands of graduates to hit up for donations.
That dwarfs the $10 million budget for Bradley, who has to plan for years and raise funds before they can even begin to think about new facilities.
Virginia- http://www.bbstate.com/school.php?s=UVA
Bradley- http://www.bbstate.com/school.php?s=BRAD

I don't know why the Virginia people wanted to get this story out about losing money. Maybe it was to soften the effect of the loss to Bradley. But, they obviously save a ton of money by Bradley beating them and sparing them from having to play 2 or 3 more money-losing games! They should be thanking Bradley.

 

[Dallas Brave]

Always happy to provide a chuckle.

It's my opinion that people get the most upset with those who possess similar personality flaws. i.e, the intolerant can't stand others who are intolerant ... or predictable people get upset at the predictability of others.

I know I'm guilty as charged.

 

[Dallas Brave]

I don't know why the Virginia people wanted to get this story out about losing money. Maybe it was to soften the effect of the loss to Bradley. But, they obviously save a ton of money by Bradley beating them and sparing them from having to play 2 or 3 more money-losing games! They should be thanking Bradley.

That's what I can't figure out ... why would the school publicize these numbers to begin with? It makes the school's Athletic Dept look incompetent.

 

[Scouter]

This money argument is bogus. Virginia, even without making the NCAA or NIT will probably make more money from their share of the distribution of the payout from the NCAA games by North Carolina, Duke, Clemson, and Miami, than the entire MVC will make from the NCAA this year. By the MVC getting only 1 team and 1 first round game, the share that will go to Bradley will be miniscule.
And if money was such a worry for the Cavaliers, they could have just requested to be a road team throughout the tournament, or just declined to participate at all. They knew full well what the costs were. But if they were a road team, then maybe they wouldn't have been as likely to win a game. So to pick up a couple wins, they were OK with the cost of the tournament. Now they are whining about losing money. And they definitely are whining. Here is another, different article all about the same woeful story of losing money in the CBI.
How do you think that multiple newspapers wrote similar stories? Just a coincidence? Obviously, the Virginia people wanted to get the story out about how they lost money. That is whining!
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/uvabasketball/wb/156219

Sorry DC, I still don't get where you see that they're whining. In fact, this is taken from the first three paragraphs of the story:
Of the five ACC men's basketball programs that were available for the College Basketball Invitational, only Virginia decided to take a plunge that ultimately could cost the Cavaliers more than $150,000.
"We knew that going in," executive associate athletic director Jon Oliver said. "We spent a lot of time talking about that aspect of it, but, at the end of the day, it was not a financial decision.
"We wanted our kids to keep playing. That's what it came down to. It's pretty hard to say 'no' to that."

It looks to me like the money thing was never an issue for UVA. They just wanted their "kids to keep playing." They knew about the money issues, which is just what the article that tornado posted said. And since they'll get a large piece of money from the ACC's NCAA share, doesn't it make more sense for them to not be as concerned about the money factor?

 

[Dallas Brave]

Sorry DC, I still don't get where you see that they're whining. In fact, this is taken from the first three paragraphs of the story:
Of the five ACC men's basketball programs that were available for the College Basketball Invitational, only Virginia decided to take a plunge that ultimately could cost the Cavaliers more than $150,000.
"We knew that going in," executive associate athletic director Jon Oliver said. "We spent a lot of time talking about that aspect of it, but, at the end of the day, it was not a financial decision.
"We wanted our kids to keep playing. That's what it came down to. It's pretty hard to say 'no' to that."

It looks to me like the money thing was never an issue for UVA. They just wanted their "kids to keep playing." They knew about the money issues, which is just what the article that tornado posted said. And since they'll get a large piece of money from the ACC's NCAA share, doesn't it make more sense for them to not be as concerned about the money factor?

The whine comment in the article was, "The CBI may have trouble filling its field if tourney officials continue to require a $60,000 guarantee for each home game, Oliver said."

More than likely that comment, or even an article on this subject, doesn't get said or printed if Virgina was in the championship game.

 

[Scouter]

The whine comment in the article was, "The CBI may have trouble filling its field if tourney officials continue to require a $60,000 guarantee for each home game, Oliver said."

More than likely that comment, or even an article on this subject, doesn't get said or printed if Virgina was in the championship game.

OK so where was UVA whining in the article tornado originally posted? Still, I don't see it as whining. I think it's just an honest statement from the UVA athletics department. They already knew going in that they were going to lose money. Why would they "whine" about it now?

Even if Virginia advanced to the championship, they said they still would've lost $300,000 and I'd bet they'd probably make the same statement.

Have we heard anything from BU about what kind of financial gain they've gotten from this tournament? Maybe they're losing money too? We don't know for sure. I'd be interested to see how BU compares to UVA and other schools from the CBI in terms of revenue and profits from the tournament.

 

[beanocookschins]

The article was written by the local paper. It was not a press release from the University of Virginia.

The writer saw the story and I'm sure got quotes to add to his story from the UVA people. This was not UVA forcing the paper to write something to make themselves look better.

Newspapers have a mind of their own and can come up with their own stories. This idea that newspapers do what the local teams say is silly. Any newspaper/beat writer worth their salt would have written about this kind of thing. I don't think they need the local school to push their agenda.

I'm not sure why fans think newspapers do and should work as shills for the local university team. They are independent thinkers and workers.

 

[Dallas Brave]

The article was written by the local paper. It was not a press release from the University of Virginia.

The writer saw the story and I'm sure got quotes to add to his story from the UVA people. This was not UVA forcing the paper to write something to make themselves look better.

Newspapers have a mind of their own and can come up with their own stories. This idea that newspapers do what the local teams say is silly. Any newspaper/beat writer worth their salt would have written about this kind of thing. I don't think they need the local school to push their agenda.

I'm not sure why fans think newspapers do and should work as shills for the local university team. They are independent thinkers and workers.

Where in the above thread did anyone find fault with the newspaper for publishing the article?

 

[Da Coach]

It looks to me like the money thing was never an issue for UVA. They just wanted their "kids to keep playing." They knew about the money issues, which is just what the article that tornado posted said. And since they'll get a large piece of money from the ACC's NCAA share, doesn't it make more sense for them to not be as concerned about the money factor?

First, I don't see how you can say "the money thing was never an issue for UVA". That is exactly what it was. Why else are there dozens of articles on the internet about their plight with the $150,000 costs? Who brought that up and why? You are a journalism guy, why don't you even have a suspicion that there might be a motive for UVa to bring up the money issue?

It appears to me that Virginia wanted to get this story out about how much money they are losing. That's why I would term it whining or crying. There are a lot of other teams who hosted games in the CBI, but I tried to find article where they publicized their losses to newspaper writers and couldn't find that any other schools did, yet Virginia did that, and to more than one newspaper.
I have more respect for those schools who just bit the bullet, and went on with their program, than a wealthy ACC school like UVa that knew what they were getting in for.
If it was indeed all about playing a few more games, then that should have been the title and primary subject of the article. Yet the main thrust of the story is all about how much money they lost, and the title
CBI puts Virginia in the red

The UVa athletic department loses more than $150,000 by playing in the first CBI

CBI's cost to Cavs could be $150,000

I just did a google search, and found dozens of other different artilcles about thge money it cost Virginia to host 3 games in the CBI. Yet, I don't see any other schools making it an issue (I avoided the term complaining )

Here is the reason-- it appears Virginia is just upset, because it was revealed that Old Dominion U. was charged much less to host their first round game.
Check out this article--
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/03/monarchs-got-sizable-discount-play-cbi

Here is what the Assistant Athletic Director at Ohio University had to say about Virginia's "issues" with the money. He calls it "sour grapes"--
"I can see where some institutions might have sour grapes if they didn't cut a better deal than what was offered, which is what it seems ODU did," said Dan Hauser, assistant athletic director of Ohio University, which paid the $60,000 fee for hosting a first-round game against Brown. "I don't have any remorse, though. I do see that the challenge for the people running the CBI is that they will have to change that contractual obligation a little bit in the years to come.
"But I'm very surprised by everybody's fixation on the monetary aspect. With any NCAA event, you have to submit a bid to host and it has similar financial commitments. It's not unique for a school hosting a tournament to have financial risks."

Why do you think Bradley isn't complaining? I believe Bradley did not get any special deal like ODU, but I have heard or read a peep from Bradley. I think the Ohio Asst. AD has it right, sour grapes.

 

[tornado]

And what happens if a team falls short of or takes in more than the $60,000 figure?

I don't think anyone knows, since we haven't seen the details of the agreement or contract.
But if you make a guarantee to someone, then you have to pay it whether you collected the $$ or not.



And here are a few more points.....that help the understanding ...

First...the official response by Rick Giles of the Gazelle Group to the story about Virginia losing so much money:
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/etc/wb/156511

Giles says the story was not fair and balanced, and his response suggests that in calculating their losses, they even included some long-term financing figures for the John Paul Arena, costs that are "a sunk cost and is incurred whether the building has a basketball game or is dark." In other words...they kinda made up some figures to pad their apparent losses!!


Also this article recalls that Virginia's relationship with the Gazelle group goes back to an "ill fated" game in the 2000 Black Coaches Association Tournament that was canceled and never played, and yet UVa still had to pay the guarantee to the Gazelle group. I suspect, therefore, UVa is a little less than open and up front on their feeling about all this since there clearly is a past that ties into this.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/uvabasketball/wb/156219

 

[Dallas Brave]

I don't think anyone knows, since we haven't seen the details of the agreement or contract.
But if you make a guarantee to someone, then you have to pay it whether you collected the $$ or not.



And here are a few more points.....that help the understanding ...

First...the official response by Rick Giles of the Gazelle Group to the story about Virginia losing so much money:
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/etc/wb/156511

Giles says the story was not fair and balanced, and his response suggests that in calculating their losses, they even included some long-term financing figures for the John Paul Arena, costs that are "a sunk cost and is incurred whether the building has a basketball game or is dark." In other words...they kinda made up some figures to pad their apparent losses!!


Also this article recalls that Virginia's relationship with the Gazelle group goes back to an "ill fated" game in the 2000 Black Coaches Association Tournament that was canceled and never played, and yet UVa still had to pay the guarantee to the Gazelle group. I suspect, therefore, UVa is a little less than open and up front on their feeling about all this since there clearly is a past that ties into this.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/uvabasketball/wb/156219

If Mr. Giles comments are accurate (and they seem more reasonable to me than the UVA comments), then the UVA Executive Assistant Athletic Director (I think that's his title ... he must need a large business card to get all of that on it) is coming across as an even bigger dunce.

 

[Scouter]

You are a journalism guy, why don't you even have a suspicion that there might be a motive for UVa to bring up the money issue?
It appears to me that Virginia wanted to get this story out about how much money they are losing. That's why I would term it whining or crying.

Why don't you even have a suspicion that it was the writers who were wondering how much money UVa might have lost, did some digging and then asked the UVa administration for their response? Why do you just assume that Virginia decided to invite the press and say "Hey, we lost $150,000 playing in this tournament"? If that's what they did, that's not very smart on their part.

I really don't know how you can consider UVa "crybabies" for "whining" about losing money when they said they already knew before the tournament began that it wouldn't be profitable to them?

 

[tornado]

By the way........the big talk on the Virginia message boards is that they think their last scholarship is about to be filled by either Terrell Holloway (who just decommitted from Indiana) or Wesley Witherspoon, - unsigned senior who had included Bradley in his choices until recently.

They really don't seem to have much to say about any of this money losing stuff..
but they all do agree that Jay Mariotti is an i*d*i*o*t
http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/basketball/2008/April/4/1014866.php

and they are really, really impressed that Bradley drew over 9000!!!
http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/basketball/2008/April/3/1014721.php


and finally....whining is like what the Supreme Court ruled once....
I can't say as I can define but I know it when I see (or hear) it!!
and those guys at UVa are whining about something they got themselves fully into
then bombed out and have to deflect attention from their bad play.

I'm guessing from Mr. Giles' letter, that Virginia won't be invited back soon to the CBI!!