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D1 school eliminates entire athletic department

Da Coach said:
Could this become a trend?
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I’m surprised we haven’t seen more. St Francis College has an enrollment under 3000. I have to believe the cost of running a Div 1 athletic department is in the 10’s of millions. At the end of the day they are in the business of educating.
 
Bradley8792 said:
I’m surprised we haven’t seen more. St Francis College has an enrollment under 3000. I have to believe the cost of running a Div 1 athletic department is in the 10’s of millions. At the end of the day they are in the business of educating.
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I'm really surprised how many D1 schools are out there now. 15 years ago when I graduated I think there were about 330, now there are 357. I find it hard to believe so many small schools can handle the expenses involved in D1 athletics.
 
Stryker said:
I find it hard to believe so many small schools can handle the expenses involved in D1 athletics.
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They definitely can't handle the expenses. That's why they've opted to travel the country as sacrificial lambs for the "big boys" during basketball season and collect nice paychecks. This is how their athletic departments are funded.
 
I wonder if they considered being a D3 program? I think the United States is the only country that has taxpayers subsidize sports in high schools and colleges. Europe has clubs that students can participate after school hours. Could you imagine if someone proposed to eliminate sport funding at Texas high schools? Football?
 
Around 1984 multiple universities/conferences sued the NCAA for the right to negotiate their own TV broadcasting rights. The NCAA fought it. It went all the way to the Supreme Court and the NCAA lost the case. Since then colleges have made millions from the televising of basketball and football. The NCAA has cashed in and made billions from televising the NCAA Tournament. Schools such as St.Francis College have tried to cash in on the money involved with college basketball and the NCAA Tournament. Some schools make it and some schools don’t. The only reason there are so many D1 basketball programs is because of the potential windfall of revenue. It wasn’t many years ago and BCS schools broke away from the NCAA and started their own Bowl playoff system. That’s why we don’t see the NCAA logo on football fields where BCS bowls are played. There is plenty of money to be made by all. Coaches getting paid hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. Schools making money to improve athletic facilities or subsidize other sports and the general education fund in some cases. Let’s don’t forget the billions the NCAA is making through advertising, television rights, apparel, tickets and more. I know people that don’t think it’s right that players, the ones that we watch, are now being compensated. I think the players are finally getting what they have deserved for years. No other business could operate like the NCAA has for years and gotten away with it. Yes, they are students and they are athletes. The “student athlete” phrase was developed by NCAA Executive Director Walter Byers and a group of NCAA attorneys in an effort to keep athletes from being paid or being able to be compensated for injury. Some now leave for better opportunities. Just as coaches, ADs, school Presidents, professors and others have done for decades. Last year I did not like it when Terry Roberts transferred to Georgia. Looking back, it didn’t bother me at all when Nate Wells left Bradley to go to Drake. At that time is was alright for a not so good player to transfer but not a good player. Perhaps my thinking was hypocritical
 
Bball31 said:
Around 1984 multiple universities/conferences sued the NCAA for the right to negotiate their own TV broadcasting rights. The NCAA fought it. It went all the way to the Supreme Court and the NCAA lost the case. Since then colleges have made millions from the televising of basketball and football. The NCAA has cashed in and made billions from televising the NCAA Tournament. Schools such as St.Francis College have tried to cash in on the money involved with college basketball and the NCAA Tournament. Some schools make it and some schools don’t. The only reason there are so many D1 basketball programs is because of the potential windfall of revenue. It wasn’t many years ago and BCS schools broke away from the NCAA and started their own Bowl playoff system. That’s why we don’t see the NCAA logo on football fields where BCS bowls are played. There is plenty of money to be made by all. Coaches getting paid hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. Schools making money to improve athletic facilities or subsidize other sports and the general education fund in some cases. Let’s don’t forget the billions the NCAA is making through advertising, television rights, apparel, tickets and more. I know people that don’t think it’s right that players, the ones that we watch, are now being compensated. I think the players are finally getting what they have deserved for years. No other business could operate like the NCAA has for years and gotten away with it. Yes, they are students and they are athletes. The “student athlete” phrase was developed by NCAA Executive Director Walter Byers and a group of NCAA attorneys in an effort to keep athletes from being paid or being able to be compensated for injury. Some now leave for better opportunities. Just as coaches, ADs, school Presidents, professors and others have done for decades. Last year I did not like it when Terry Roberts transferred to Georgia. Looking back, it didn’t bother me at all when Nate Wells left Bradley to go to Drake. At that time is was alright for a not so good player to transfer but not a good player. Perhaps my thinking was hypocritical
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You have a good point. I have never seen someone present a solid argument as to why players shouldn't have a right to their labor above and beyond the scholarship they receive. When a player like Zion Williamson or Cam Newton attend a school, you know they are making millions upon millions for that school and they see nothing (officially anyway). The only arguments I hear are that the scholarship is worth it, or the sport is being ruined. Pretty poor arguments imo.

It would be better if the system had transitioned into a minor league or club system not tied to the schools etc. Some other entire system would have been more fair for the players, but that isn't what we have.

Also, I have no idea what the NCAA does with all the money it makes. Does anyone know?
 
Stryker said:
.... Also, I have no idea what the NCAA does with all the money it makes. Does anyone know?
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Nearly all of it, minus expenses and employee costs, is distributed back to the member schools and conferences. But their model for distribution heavily favors the big schools. It is based on TV appearances, and appearances and games won in the NCAA Tournament.
 
Stryker said:
You have a good point. I have never seen someone present a solid argument as to why players shouldn't have a right to their labor above and beyond the scholarship they receive. When a player like Zion Williamson or Cam Newton attend a school, you know they are making millions upon millions for that school and they see nothing (officially anyway). The only arguments I hear are that the scholarship is worth it, or the sport is being ruined. Pretty poor arguments imo.

It would be better if the system had transitioned into a minor league or club system not tied to the schools etc. Some other entire system would have been more fair for the players, but that isn't what we have.

Also, I have no idea what the NCAA does with all the money it makes. Does anyone know?
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A large portion of NCAA revenue goes to salaries, attorneys and lobbyists. They pay very little if any in taxes. I believe the NCAA should mandate that each school receives the same amount of money to be given to players and also provide that funding. I’m sure this would be challenged in court. We are witnessing a mess that has been created by university Presidents and the NCAA. Everyone wants to blame the Power 5 schools and the NCAA. There are far more non Power 5 schools in the NCAA and the Presidents of those non Power 5 schools need to get a little backbone and get a handle on the money. That won’t be easy because those very Presidents are making tremendous salaries of which much part of it more than likely comes from basketball and football.
 
The big schools have the power because they bring in the money. Their attitude is that smaller schools should consider themselves lucky they get anything, and if the they don't like it the big schools can leave the NCAA at any time and make their own organization. Which is really something I think is inevitable in the next 20 years. If realignment continues and we end up with a Power 2 after the next round of tv deals are negotiated I think we see the Big 10 and SEC make their own organization and leave the NCAA. 20-24 teams each and basically North and South conferences that play each other for a championship.
 
Fetz86 said:
The big schools have the power because they bring in the money. Their attitude is that smaller schools should consider themselves lucky they get anything, and if the they don't like it the big schools can leave the NCAA at any time and make their own organization. Which is really something I think is inevitable in the next 20 years. If realignment continues and we end up with a Power 2 after the next round of tv deals are negotiated I think we see the Big 10 and SEC make their own organization and leave the NCAA. 20-24 teams each and basically North and South conferences that play each other for a championship.
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There are around 350 schools in NCAA D1 basketball. Of that number on around 65 are in Power 5 conferences. There are roughly 285 non Power 5 schools. There may be more money in the Power 5 schools, but the numbers are on the side of the non Power 5 conferences. That is why I say the non Power 5 school Presidents need to get a little backbone and stand up to the financial conditions and rules that favor the Power 5 conferences. I doubt that will happen. It's easier to make yourself a victim of circumstances or remain silent.
 
Yes, the non-power conferences and teams do outnumber the big boys. But, if the Power 5 or 6 conference teams don't get their way, they will just leave the NCAA and set up their own BCS-type organization to rule over college basketball. They did it for football with great success and they are reaping billions in revenue from it, while the non-BCS schools get almost nothing. I'm surprised they haven't already done it for basketball.
 
Da Coach said:
Yes, the non-power conferences and teams do outnumber the big boys. But, if the Power 5 or 6 conference teams don't get their way, they will just leave the NCAA and set up their own BCS-type organization to rule over college basketball. They did it for football with great success and they are reaping billions in revenue from it, while the non-BCS schools get almost nothing. I'm surprised they haven't already done it for basketball.
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That very well may happen at some point. The SEC, ACC, Big 10 and Pac 12 also took financial risks and invested in their own television networks. That has turned into a huge revenue producer. It may not be long until the Big 12, Big East, American Athletic and maybe even the Atlantic 10 start their own television network. Conferences that had the ability, foresight and took the risk to make these investments have clearly benefited, while those that didn’t have fallen behind.
 
Da Coach said:
Yes, the non-power conferences and teams do outnumber the big boys. But, if the Power 5 or 6 conference teams don't get their way, they will just leave the NCAA and set up their own BCS-type organization to rule over college basketball. They did it for football with great success and they are reaping billions in revenue from it, while the non-BCS schools get almost nothing. I'm surprised they haven't already done it for basketball.
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Upon thinking on your reply for a while…I believe the days of the NCAA may be limited. The NCAA needs the 250+ mid majors more than they need the NCAA. Perhaps it’s time for the mid majors to break away from the NCAA and start their own organization.
 
Bball31 said:
Upon thinking on your reply for a while…I believe the days of the NCAA may be limited. The NCAA needs the 250+ mid majors more than they need the NCAA. Perhaps it’s time for the mid majors to break away from the NCAA and start their own organization.
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The NCAA is supposed to be promoting college athletics. Instead they are destroying it
 
If college athletics is all about "amateurism", perhaps we should go back to playing in small gyms, free admission, no television, much reduced practice time and a much shorter season. Not to mention, reducing coaches salaries from several hundred thousands to a million dollars a year, to that what high school coaches make. In reality it is only about "amateurism" when discussion of players leaving for other schools or being paid. I think we all know that isn't going to happen and the reason why. I wonder who was the last basketball or football player that went to a specific college because he was recruited by an engineering professor.
 
Players in college sports have been getting paid for a very long time, it's just out in the open now. The problem isn't they pay, the problem is the wide open portal. I don't think anyone has a big gripe with someone like Rienk, who has a graduate degree moving on, but now that there's basically no penalty, everyone is testing the portal to see what they can get.

I still believe that this issue will work itself out over time to some extent. One thing that will never change is the NCAA making rules that benefit the Power 5 and hurt the mid-majors and smaller schools. I agree with a previous comment - eventually, the Power 5 (maybe 6) will have their own league and the rest of the schools will have their own.
 
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