Lakeview Brave
New member
Completely agree. The program would be in REAL trouble if nobody cared enough to post anything.
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Drake @ Bradley Post Game--DU 69 BU 68
- Thread starter ser_solace
- Start date
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ghunt
Guest
Yes, congratulations to Drake on winning, but the point is that we are Bradley fans, and it is generally expected that a fan wants their team to win. When there are numerous problems with how one's team plays, one points them out. To use the previous analogies, yes, good job on hitting the home run, but one the pitcher throws an 80 mile an hour BP ball down the middle after the manager leaves him in after 140 pitches, and you have some strong power pitchers in the dug out, don't you think something needs to be said?
P.S. I think anyone, like myself, who had played any significant competitive sports in their lifetime would have their dander up on this thing.
Blame Drake was sarcasm.
Acountable is much better. I now see what you are looking for. But how would you fix it? I really don't think a bigger lineup would have been the best option tonight against Drake.
Lakeview Brave
New member
I am not saying that I have or know all the answers but I am not paid to have them either. I am starting to wonder where the talent on this team is? Do we have good to great players? Salley, should not be playing for a D1 team with aspirations of greatness. TW has heart fire desire but alot of basket ball skill/basketball IQ? Warren is probably the most talented player and I think he wil be very good before his career is done but are we using him the right way? Why is he always standing in the corner? JC, great shooter last year and very good shooter this year but not really a scorer. Sam, doing fantaistic for a freshman but really needs work on D. I mean even with Ruff do we have a lot of talent? I dont know
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ghunt
Guest
Is Law Dog4 legitmate? The account was just today and the comments were somewhere between a devil's advocate and someone who had no clue (played or coached or, well, anything) about sports. Smack me for the observation if it isn't nice, but I find those posts hard to believe.
No smack coming from this direction. He sounds like someone who doesn't like to debate sports or make any sort of criticism.
BradleyBrave
New member
Well, that's about as heartbreaking a loss as I can remember. I guess I'll just vent my feelings on what I saw -
1.) I think that the personnel was fine. Drake had no inside game either, and playing 2 bigs would have created mismatches in their favor. Maybe more Austin or Singh, but the outcome very well may have been the same. I think people are making a bigger deal out of it than they should.
2.) Not sure why TW was inbounding the ball. Perhaps because he traveled (bad call) a few plays before? Perhaps JL wanted a ballhandler to get inbounds pass? Not sure.
3.) The game was lost when a 7 point lead with 3 and change left went down to 2 with 3 and change still left. Talk about relaxing a little too early. Wow.
4.) Drake is unimpressively very good...that's a compliment. They remind me of Butler a lot. Man for man, there are a lot of teams more talented. As a team though, they are persistent and know their roles down to a tee. A very likable team. It's been a long time coming in Des Moines.
5.) Zone would have been a terrible idea. They would have shot us out of it in a heartbeat.
6.) I didn't think the defense was that bad. Houston made some very tough shots, as did Emmenecker. Perhaps a shot-blocker in the middle may have helped, but they spread you out so much that it may not have mattered.
7.) I'm done ripping on Matt Salley. It's pointless. I'm sure he's doing the best he can. He just isn't very good. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy, it doesn't seem like he fits in. Kind of a wayward soul. I feel like he's got more pressing life issues going on beyond basketball. I have no reason to think this, it's just an observation I get from his body language and performance.
8.) Maniscalco is awesome. Warren is turning into an all-conference player. It's very frustrating that we're getting such great efforts from these guys who have stepped it up in DR's absence, and have nothing to show for it. Makes me think we might have similar issues even if DR was around.
9.) I'd say out of our 1-6 stretch without DR, this is maybe the 2nd game where I think he would have made a major difference. Emmenecker wouldn't have been able to get in the lane the way he did with DR on him. Also, we likely would have had DR in the game instead of TW when inbounding off a dead ball, with JC inbounding to DR, SM, and AW.
10.) We can blame Les until we're blue in the face, but players have to make plays. Les didn't miss 2 free throws in the last 3 minutes (TW), he didn't throw a bounce pass to no one (AW), and he didn't tap the ball rather than secure the rebound (TW/MS). Don't get me wrong, I think he's largely responsible for this mess - they're his players, and they're not very good right now, and they are getting their @sses kicked in categories that reflect directly on the coaching staff. Yes, he did make some mistakes tonight (having TW inbound the basketball), but the fact of the matter is that we were winning with 10 seconds left, and the ball was in the air for the taking. Jim Les can't grab that rebound. Players gotta make plays.
The season was salvageable, but we needed all 3 at home. Just when you think there can't be a more backbreaking loss, we find a way. This is a lost season, there's no 2 ways about it. Nothing short of winning the MVC Tournament will make this season successful, and even then I will feel this season was a disappointment. There's zero chance of us doing anything down there if we're playing-in. That's very, very likely at this point. Are we ever going to win this league again?
FWIW....The most frustrating part is that we should have won all 3 of our league home games, Ruffin or no Ruffin.
1.) I think that the personnel was fine. Drake had no inside game either, and playing 2 bigs would have created mismatches in their favor. Maybe more Austin or Singh, but the outcome very well may have been the same. I think people are making a bigger deal out of it than they should.
2.) Not sure why TW was inbounding the ball. Perhaps because he traveled (bad call) a few plays before? Perhaps JL wanted a ballhandler to get inbounds pass? Not sure.
3.) The game was lost when a 7 point lead with 3 and change left went down to 2 with 3 and change still left. Talk about relaxing a little too early. Wow.
4.) Drake is unimpressively very good...that's a compliment. They remind me of Butler a lot. Man for man, there are a lot of teams more talented. As a team though, they are persistent and know their roles down to a tee. A very likable team. It's been a long time coming in Des Moines.
5.) Zone would have been a terrible idea. They would have shot us out of it in a heartbeat.
6.) I didn't think the defense was that bad. Houston made some very tough shots, as did Emmenecker. Perhaps a shot-blocker in the middle may have helped, but they spread you out so much that it may not have mattered.
7.) I'm done ripping on Matt Salley. It's pointless. I'm sure he's doing the best he can. He just isn't very good. I am actually starting to feel bad for the guy, it doesn't seem like he fits in. Kind of a wayward soul. I feel like he's got more pressing life issues going on beyond basketball. I have no reason to think this, it's just an observation I get from his body language and performance.
8.) Maniscalco is awesome. Warren is turning into an all-conference player. It's very frustrating that we're getting such great efforts from these guys who have stepped it up in DR's absence, and have nothing to show for it. Makes me think we might have similar issues even if DR was around.
9.) I'd say out of our 1-6 stretch without DR, this is maybe the 2nd game where I think he would have made a major difference. Emmenecker wouldn't have been able to get in the lane the way he did with DR on him. Also, we likely would have had DR in the game instead of TW when inbounding off a dead ball, with JC inbounding to DR, SM, and AW.
10.) We can blame Les until we're blue in the face, but players have to make plays. Les didn't miss 2 free throws in the last 3 minutes (TW), he didn't throw a bounce pass to no one (AW), and he didn't tap the ball rather than secure the rebound (TW/MS). Don't get me wrong, I think he's largely responsible for this mess - they're his players, and they're not very good right now, and they are getting their @sses kicked in categories that reflect directly on the coaching staff. Yes, he did make some mistakes tonight (having TW inbound the basketball), but the fact of the matter is that we were winning with 10 seconds left, and the ball was in the air for the taking. Jim Les can't grab that rebound. Players gotta make plays.
The season was salvageable, but we needed all 3 at home. Just when you think there can't be a more backbreaking loss, we find a way. This is a lost season, there's no 2 ways about it. Nothing short of winning the MVC Tournament will make this season successful, and even then I will feel this season was a disappointment. There's zero chance of us doing anything down there if we're playing-in. That's very, very likely at this point. Are we ever going to win this league again?
FWIW....The most frustrating part is that we should have won all 3 of our league home games, Ruffin or no Ruffin.
Dallas Brave
New member
BB - I would like to better understand your POV on point 1 on what these mismatches would have been? From my perspective, not playing two bigs played into DU's strengths as they are not very big, but rebound with a lot of determination. The only way, in my mind, given the slate of players we have on this roster, to counter that would be to establish a height advantage and minimize DU's second chances.
There are a lot of ways to breakdown the stats. But, for this year's squad, it seems that whatever team wins the rebounding edge tends to come out the winner.
The DU/BU game makes a good case study. Bradley clearly out-shot DU but still lost the game:
Total Field Goals
BU: 22-47 .468; DU: 25-59 . 424
3 Point Shooting
BU: 10-22 .455; DU: 9-25 .360
FTs
BU: 14-17 .824; DU: 10-13 .769
BU has a two point lead at half, shoots over 50% in the second half and still loses. Bradley lost this game on the interior and the numbers tell the story in rebound deficit, points-in-the-paint deficit, and second chance points deficit. We lost the battle of those key metrics because of the lineup that was played (or not played), not due to the failure of any player on the floor even though I would expect that SM, TW, AW, and JC were a bit gassed by the end of the game since all four played 35+ minutes. DU took 15 more shots than BU in the 2nd half. Do you think our guards were a bit tired?
BradleyBrave, I wasnt able to go to the game last night, but listening to the radio, I couldnt help but think that the last few minutes of the game would have been different with Ruff and SamM on the floor.
Your FWIW point is very accurate.
I must say that I am not sure were this team would be even if Ruff hadn't been hurt. We were sliding in hustle categories prior to the injury. I am not discrediting any of the complaints about the rebounding and inside play.
However, last night, in the guts of the game he would have made HUGE difference. Ruff is one of the finest "on the ball defenders" in the country. After running a lot of FLEX offense earier in the game Drake was simply spreading us out and driving, including the final play.
IMO Ruff would have at least prevented 2 or 3 of the easy baskets and/or trips to the line late in the game. And minus the final rebound, that was the difference last night.
However, last night, in the guts of the game he would have made HUGE difference. Ruff is one of the finest "on the ball defenders" in the country. After running a lot of FLEX offense earier in the game Drake was simply spreading us out and driving, including the final play.
IMO Ruff would have at least prevented 2 or 3 of the easy baskets and/or trips to the line late in the game. And minus the final rebound, that was the difference last night.
onetuffshot
New member
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Were the stats in this mornings PJS correct? They showed Cole-Scott with 5 turnovers.
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Were the stats in this mornings PJS correct? They showed Cole-Scott with 5 turnovers.
BradleyBrave
New member
My point of view on that is if we went big, I think we'd have had a real hard time guarding Drake. They were all perimeter, even their bigs. I feel like they would have shot a much higher percentage from 3 if went with 2 bigs that couldn't defend the perimeter. Maybe I am wrong.
IMO the rebounding deficit had little to do with the personnel, and more to do with execution. We've got a 5'10" guard who led our team in rebounding, meanwhile we've got a 6'5" senior guard who plays 30 minutes and gets 2 boards. We've got another senior post player who gets 3 rebounds. They didn't outsize us, so I have a hard time believing that playing even bigger players would have made a difference. Maybe one can argue Singh should have played more than Salley (it's hard to argue with that, SS had 4 boards in 13 minutes as opposed to 3 boards in 24 minutes), but 6'3" Leonard Houston had 7 rebounds and 6'1" Adam Emmenecker had 6, including 2 in the final 10 seconds. It comes down to execution, boxing out, and flat-out desire. Drake beat us in all 3, and playing 2 bigs wouldn't have changed that.
Totally agree here...Going with two bigs against Drake would have been a terrible idea. Drake's big guys are all essentially perimeter players, so Bradley's second big would have been trying to chase Korver around the perimeter, and that would have been a disaster. So yes, Wilson at the 4 was the right matchup against Drake.
Our bigs are not good enough to create mismatches on the offensive end, so putting two of them on the floor would have hurt us on both ends of the floor.
And we really need to get away from this notion that if we have two bigs on the floor that automatically makes us a good rebounding team. This is a huge oversimplification of things. We were bigger than Drake last night even with our smaller lineup out there. They played a lineup that was 6'0", 6'1", 6'3", 6'5", and 6'8" for most of the game...There is absolutely no reason that we couldn't have kept them off the boards. But once again, we didn't keep them off the boards because we don't block out, we don't put ourselves in good positions to get those rebounds, and we just don't have the attitude that says 'I will not be denied from getting this rebound'. The coaching staff obviously has not found a way to effectively teach these things to these players, either that or they simply haven't tried.
