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Evans Turner's Triple Double vs. Illinois

I would take Evan Turner in a heartbeat on any team. His season A/TO is 1.5, he had a bad game, and still beat a tough Illini team. As a point of comparison, AW's A/TO was under 1 and he was actually a guard, where Turner was playing as a forward...
 
amckillip said:
AW's A/TO was under 1 and he was actually a guard, where Turner was playing as a forward...
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Not necessarily. Turner is listed as a G/F, but he plays as their PG. He brings the ball up on every possesion, and more importantly defends the point.
 
I'd take Turner in a nano-second. He'll be the 2nd or 1st player selected in the draft. John Wall maybe a bit quicker but I believe Turner will be a better NBA player, longer. John Wall's game reminds me of Iverson but is a bit taller while Turner could be more of a Kobe like player. Speed players learn to survive on the speed and rarely develop the all around game necessary for when you hit your 30s. Give me a guy with all around skills for the long-term over the speed guy.
 
MikeCash said:
Not necessarily. Turner is listed as a G/F, but he plays as their PG. He brings the ball up on every possesion, and more importantly defends the point.
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The more important point is who guards him and that's almost NEVER the opposing pg. Who Turner guards really doesn't affect his A/TO ratio whatsoever as a matter of fact...
 
I didn't say it did. I said he plays point guard for Ohio State. (And if proof was needed, look at what position he guards). I didn't say anything about what player the opposing coach uses to guard him.

I could use Jordan Eglseder to guard Clevin Hannah, but that doesn't make Hannah a center.
 
MikeCash said:
I didn't say it did. I said he plays point guard for Ohio State. (And if proof was needed, look at what position he guards). I didn't say anything about what player the opposing coach uses to guard him.

I could use Jordan Eglseder to guard Clevin Hannah, but that doesn't make Hannah a center.
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But watch the team play, he really doesn't play PG, he plays the 3!

CRob guards the opposing players small forward, CRob is NOT a small forward. How is your argument any more or less valid than mine? My proof is who guards him, logically that has to be as sound an assumption of position (if only one is true and the same people are not matched up on both ends of the court, the whole statement is invalidated, but that's logic rules and a whole other topic ;) ) My assertion is just as valid and is assertion that directly affects the stat in question turnovers. I understand what you're saying, but if you watch OSU play it is clear ET plays the 3... And still has a good A/TO ratio either way.
 
MikeCash said:
http://www.sportingnews.com/college...te-pg-evan-turner-making-transition-look-easy
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Haha, that backs up my argument more so than yours.

"The nature of Ohio State's lineup, which includes 6-5 David Lighty at power forward and 6-4 William Buford at small forward, means some teams are likely to attack Turner with a bigger match-up. Somebody like Carolina's Marcus Ginyard, for instance."

"He isn't simply making a position switch; he's taking on a second job. Turner still needs to score and hit the offensive boards."

"Frequently compared to Portland Trailblazers star Brandon Roy, Turner is built to play on the wing."

"Unless they are penetrating with the ball, most point guards remain on the perimeter to be available for teammates looking to restart the offense, or to fall back on defense if somebody misses a shot. Wing Jon Diebler now is responsible for rotating back on defense. "

"We've got to keep him in the flow of things," Thad Matta said. "I think when we get into better competition we've got to get creative in what we're doing. We're very aware of moving him around, getting him where we need to." - In other words, 'we're just trying this out...'

Say what you will, Evan turner DOES NOT play PG in any other sense than the fact he sometimes brings the ball down the court. While that is a good way to tip off who the PG is, it can often be misleading, especially if you're just casually watching. If it's the only requirement to be considered a PG I suggest someone goes a watches tape of the 90's Bulls and then explain to everyone that Ron Harper et. al wasn't the Bulls PG but rather the 6-7 Scottie Pippen who slashed from the corner...

One final defining quote: "Moving Turner is a different deal than many of these conversions, though. He asked to advance the ball up the court, make the play call, deliver the initial pass -- and then dive into the offense so he can be available as a scoring option. "

And my original point still holds, I'd take Evan Turner over any player BU's had in the last two decades hands down, no questions asked. I would take him on the '06 team over POB even, I'd let him play the 5 in the MVC, haha
 
Call me a casual watcher if you must. I can handle the insult.

I sat on press row for the entire Big Ten Tournament--about two feet from Thad Motta. One thing I will leave you with is that you can not say that Turner is NOT the point guard. He did not bring the ball up "sometimes" as you suggest. He brought the ball up every single possession. All weekend long.

And when there was a press...who was the ball-handling guard? Turner. Who was the guy to signal in the plays? Turner. Who was the one who turned to get special instructions from the coach as he was walking up the ball? Turner. When Motta wanted to deliver a message during a free throw, he called Turner over for some quick strategy talk. When the offense got bogged down and they needed to recycle a possession, they reset by getting the ball to Turner at the top of the key and waited for him to direct traffic.

I know he's a hybrid. I know OSU's offense is peculiar. I never denied that. Their point guard is Evan Turner.

That's all.
 
MikeCash said:
Call me a casual watcher if you must. I can handle the insult.

I sat on press row for the entire Big Ten Tournament--about two feet from Thad Motta. One thing I will leave you with is that you can not say that Turner is NOT the point guard. He did not bring the ball up "sometimes" as you suggest. He brought the ball up every single possession. All weekend long.

And when there was a press...who was the ball-handling guard? Turner. Who was the guy to signal in the plays? Turner. Who was the one who turned to get special instructions from the coach as he was walking up the ball? Turner. When Motta wanted to deliver a message during a free throw, he called Turner over for some quick strategy talk. When the offense got bogged down and they needed to recycle a possession, they reset by getting the ball to Turner at the top of the key and waited for him to direct traffic.

I know he's a hybrid. I know OSU's offense is peculiar. I never denied that. Their point guard is Evan Turner.

That's all.
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Haha, ok, your opinion is clearly more valid than mine...

Here are a few sites that support my opinion, even though it's clearly wrong because you sat in press row at the tourney.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/3/11/1367496/2010-nba-draft-prospect-profile

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19201&draftyear=2010&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnbadraft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fplayerId%3d19201%26draftyear%3d2010

http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2010/Evan-Turner

I know they're all Draft sites, but they're the easiest ones to find that clearly state position, and that look at the overall play, not just what the coach says (such as OSU's website or something).
 
amckillip said:
I know they're all Draft sites, but they're the easiest ones to find that clearly state position, and that look at the overall play, not just what the coach says (such as OSU's website or something).
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Sorry amckillip but I'm more prone to believe my eyes and what Turner's coach says than some third party draft site. See, the thing is, Turner is not listed as the PG (I think Buford is) but Turner is the one who directs that offense. Everything starts and ends with him. He has nearly twice as many assists, points, and rebounds as anyone else on that team.
 
Braves4Life said:
Sorry amckillip but I'm more prone to believe my eyes and what Turner's coach says than some third party draft site. See, the thing is, Turner is not listed as the PG (I think Buford is) but Turner is the one who directs that offense. Everything starts and ends with him. He has nearly twice as many assists, points, and rebounds as anyone else on that team.
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Exactly! All those things you said, take place that involve the pg are in the first 5 seconds of the possession, then turner is a wing. Assists and turnovers do not happen in the first 5 seconds of a possession and it's only about a 1/3 to 1/4 of the average possession. The part where you say it ends with him is just as important, he has more shot attempts than anyone else on the team, which indicates he doesn't play as a pg most of the possession, he doesn't rotate back for D, which indicates he doesn't play as a pg most of the possession, he attacks the boards after as shot, which indicates he doesn't play as a pg most of the possession, etc.

Also look at players who lead their team in assists, points, and rebounds... LeBron? Who by the way is similar height and style of play to ET, and is a SG/SF...
 
amckillip said:
Exactly! All those things you said, take place that involve the pg are in the first 5 seconds of the possession, then turner is a wing. Assists and turnovers do not happen in the first 5 seconds of a possession and it's only about a 1/3 to 1/4 of the average possession. The part where you say it ends with him is just as important, he has more shot attempts than anyone else on the team, which indicates he doesn't play as a pg most of the possession, he doesn't rotate back for D, which indicates he doesn't play as a pg most of the possession, he attacks the boards after as shot, which indicates he doesn't play as a pg most of the possession, etc.

Also look at players who lead their team in assists, points, and rebounds... LeBron? Who by the way is similar height and style of play to ET, and is a SG/SF...
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Magic Johnson averaged over 7 rebounds per game. He was a point guard.
 
BradleyBrave said:
Magic Johnson averaged over 7 rebounds per game. He was a point guard.
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Scottie Pippen averaged 5 apg... He was a forward. What does that matter?

I'm not arguing ET couldn't rationally be called a pg, I'm saying for the purposes of this discussion - turnovers - he is not best compared to a pg, but rather are 2 or 3. He is clearly not in the same role as a Sam Maniscalco or John Wall, but much closer to wing players, especially for this discussion.
 
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