No reason other then a lot of people do not know how to find the new arena and more then likely only 100 or so students will show so I look for around 2000 total , hope I am wrong because that is a terrible showing of support.
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First Valley Exhibitions
- Thread starter tornado
- Start date
Not sure why someone wouldn't know where the new arena is at this point. No excuse for students not to show up......it's free and it's on campus!
Students never attended the red-white or the other exb. games back at the old fieldhouse so it is no surprize that most were not there tonight, there were a lot more tonight then at the red-white but still not enough when you consider it was on campus.
tornado
New member
I have a question....
I thought players who were ineligible for regular season games are ALSO ineligible for exhibitions...
One of ISU's players who is ineligible to play D-I basketball until the 6th game of the season..played in their exhibition.
Is this an NCAA violation? Maybe not -- but didn't BU get cited and hit with a little extra penalty with POB since he played in the exhibitions vs. SIUE and Minnesota State in 2005?
Here is the ruling...
"COMPETITION WHILE INELIGIBLE" [NCAA BYLAW 14.11.1]
On November 3, 2005, the institution allowed student-athletes B, C and D to compete in
an exhibition game even though the institution had declared the young men ineligible
pending the outcome of an eligibility restoration request for each student-athlete based on
the violations set forth in Finding A. Specifically, the institution declared the young men
ineligible November 2. It correctly believed that any loss of competition for the student athletes
would need to be fulfilled during the regular season, but mistakenly believed that
the student-athletes could compete prior to the restoration decision being determined."
Here is the NCAA bylaw:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf
"14.11.1 Obligation of Member Institution to Withhold Student-Athlete from Competition. If
a student-athlete is ineligible under the provisions of the constitution, bylaws or other regulations of the Association,
the institution shall be obligated to apply immediately the applicable rule and to withhold the student-athlete
from all intercollegiate competition. The institution may appeal to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement
for restoration of the student-athlete’s eligibility as provided in Bylaw 14.12 if it concludes that the circumstances
warrant restoration."
I thought players who were ineligible for regular season games are ALSO ineligible for exhibitions...
One of ISU's players who is ineligible to play D-I basketball until the 6th game of the season..played in their exhibition.
Is this an NCAA violation? Maybe not -- but didn't BU get cited and hit with a little extra penalty with POB since he played in the exhibitions vs. SIUE and Minnesota State in 2005?
Here is the ruling...
"COMPETITION WHILE INELIGIBLE" [NCAA BYLAW 14.11.1]
On November 3, 2005, the institution allowed student-athletes B, C and D to compete in
an exhibition game even though the institution had declared the young men ineligible
pending the outcome of an eligibility restoration request for each student-athlete based on
the violations set forth in Finding A. Specifically, the institution declared the young men
ineligible November 2. It correctly believed that any loss of competition for the student athletes
would need to be fulfilled during the regular season, but mistakenly believed that
the student-athletes could compete prior to the restoration decision being determined."
Here is the NCAA bylaw:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf
"14.11.1 Obligation of Member Institution to Withhold Student-Athlete from Competition. If
a student-athlete is ineligible under the provisions of the constitution, bylaws or other regulations of the Association,
the institution shall be obligated to apply immediately the applicable rule and to withhold the student-athlete
from all intercollegiate competition. The institution may appeal to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement
for restoration of the student-athlete’s eligibility as provided in Bylaw 14.12 if it concludes that the circumstances
warrant restoration."
I am just guessing here, as I don't know the details on either. But with Wilkins his punishment has already been given. It was the first 5 regular season games. So that does not incude exhibition games.
Correct if I am wrong, and I very well maybe be wrong here, but didn't he (POB) play in those games while the NCAA was still gathering information and they hadn't made their ruling yet on what his punishment would end up being? I think they (NCAA) are okay with the players practicing but not playing (not even an exhibition game) until they made their official ruling and / or punishment.
I honestly don't know about either. Total guess on my part.
Correct if I am wrong, and I very well maybe be wrong here, but didn't he (POB) play in those games while the NCAA was still gathering information and they hadn't made their ruling yet on what his punishment would end up being? I think they (NCAA) are okay with the players practicing but not playing (not even an exhibition game) until they made their official ruling and / or punishment.
I honestly don't know about either. Total guess on my part.
tornado
New member
last year when an almost identical ruling went against John Wall for professionalism, he was held out of exhibitions, as were Lucca Staiger,
Mario Stula, Christian Standhardinger, Beas Hamga, and every other similar case I can find.....just sayin'...same true for Kanter-- they didn't dare play him in an exhibition and risk the NCAA's wrath
again....to quote the rule in the NCAA Manual...not my rule -- direct from NCAA
Bylaw 14.11.1
"If a student-athlete is ineligible under the provisions ..the institution shall be obligated
to apply immediately the applicable rule and to withhold the student-athlete from all intercollegiate competition."
I do not see any extra provision that would allow for exhibitions to played while the athlete is ineligible from regular season play
tornado
New member
no -- the rulings were already in place for all of them ...
that's why they held Wall out and Beas Hamga went to UNLV knowing he was sitting out an entire year...
Lucca Staiger's ruling was handed down Oct. 24 2007, and was 33 games (the full 2007-2008 season) ..but if McDermott had applied the Jankovich philosphy to the ruling, then Staiger would have played in Nov. 1 and Nov. 4 exhibition games...but of course he did not.
Same for Nikola Kecman who was given an 12 game penalty in 2008-2009 by NCAA for professional team play in Europe
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17300&ATCLID=1568540
https://www.nmnathletics.com//downl...624388&SPSID=87805&SPID=10421&DB_OEM_ID=17300
..the ruling in the OSU press even stated that if he is inelgible for regular season play he would also be ineligible for the exhibition.
"THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Monday, November 3, 2008 5:00 PM By Bob Baptist
Junior-college transfer Nikola Kecman will miss the first 12 games of the Ohio State men's basketball season for playing on a club team in his native Serbia two years ago that included players the NCAA considers professionals.
Ohio State announced the penalty in a statement today.
Kecman, a 6-foot-8 forward, will be eligible to return for a Jan.6 game at Michigan State.
Kecman played last season at Eastern Arizona College. He has two more seasons of eligibility after this one at Ohio State.
The Buckeyes will play an exhibition game Nov.13 against Walsh in Value City Arena and open the regular season Nov.20 against Delaware State in St. John Arena."
that's why they held Wall out and Beas Hamga went to UNLV knowing he was sitting out an entire year...
Lucca Staiger's ruling was handed down Oct. 24 2007, and was 33 games (the full 2007-2008 season) ..but if McDermott had applied the Jankovich philosphy to the ruling, then Staiger would have played in Nov. 1 and Nov. 4 exhibition games...but of course he did not.
Same for Nikola Kecman who was given an 12 game penalty in 2008-2009 by NCAA for professional team play in Europe
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17300&ATCLID=1568540
https://www.nmnathletics.com//downl...624388&SPSID=87805&SPID=10421&DB_OEM_ID=17300
..the ruling in the OSU press even stated that if he is inelgible for regular season play he would also be ineligible for the exhibition.
"THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Monday, November 3, 2008 5:00 PM By Bob Baptist
Junior-college transfer Nikola Kecman will miss the first 12 games of the Ohio State men's basketball season for playing on a club team in his native Serbia two years ago that included players the NCAA considers professionals.
Ohio State announced the penalty in a statement today.
Kecman, a 6-foot-8 forward, will be eligible to return for a Jan.6 game at Michigan State.
Kecman played last season at Eastern Arizona College. He has two more seasons of eligibility after this one at Ohio State.
The Buckeyes will play an exhibition game Nov.13 against Walsh in Value City Arena and open the regular season Nov.20 against Delaware State in St. John Arena."
mrcoachdude
New member
has to sit out a few games right?
Wall's ruling came down on Oct. 30th. Part of his ruling was to miss the exhibition games:
http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/103009aab.html
So he wasn't "held" out of the exhibition games by Kentucky. It was because the NCAA told him not to play along with the regular season game vs. Morehead State.
http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/103009aab.html
So he wasn't "held" out of the exhibition games by Kentucky. It was because the NCAA told him not to play along with the regular season game vs. Morehead State.
tornado
New member
my point precisely -- he was UNABLE to play in the exhibition
I hardly need examples of ineligible players who DON'T play in their exhibition games, I have plenty of those...
...but find me one who DOES!
Even transfer players like all those kids who transferred to Iowa State -- they don't play in exhibition games..
..and your ineligible kids - NO MATTER WHAT the reason they were ineligible, like Trey Blue last year and Odzic, Mishler, Shipley, etc. from prior years never played in exhibition games.
Find me one who did?
One more example -- Mario Stula - yet another who got the Euro-professional penalty just as John Wilkins did, was docked 7 games at the start of 2008-2009 then he was fully eligible after that and played in every remaining game...but HE DID NOT play in either their closed scrimmage nor their open exhibition game against Lewis on Nov. 8, 2008.
anyway -- here's the details on SIU's game with Illinois...
it's a guarantee game SIU getting $80,000
http://www.illinihq.com/blogs/basketblog/2010/11/10/how_the_illinoissiu_game_happened
I hardly need examples of ineligible players who DON'T play in their exhibition games, I have plenty of those...
...but find me one who DOES!
Even transfer players like all those kids who transferred to Iowa State -- they don't play in exhibition games..
..and your ineligible kids - NO MATTER WHAT the reason they were ineligible, like Trey Blue last year and Odzic, Mishler, Shipley, etc. from prior years never played in exhibition games.
Find me one who did?
One more example -- Mario Stula - yet another who got the Euro-professional penalty just as John Wilkins did, was docked 7 games at the start of 2008-2009 then he was fully eligible after that and played in every remaining game...but HE DID NOT play in either their closed scrimmage nor their open exhibition game against Lewis on Nov. 8, 2008.
anyway -- here's the details on SIU's game with Illinois...
it's a guarantee game SIU getting $80,000
http://www.illinihq.com/blogs/basketblog/2010/11/10/how_the_illinoissiu_game_happened
Why play a guy in an exhibition if he isn't going to play for you the entire year?
Maybe Staiger's punishment included exhibition games.
Sounds like Kecman's punishment included Exhibtion games too.
Wilkins doesn't. It's 5 regular season games.
tornado
New member
from above-
Mario Stula - yet another who got the Euro-professional penalty just as John Wilkins did, was docked 7 games (7 regular season games) at the start of 2008-2009 then he was fully eligible after that and played in every remaining game...but HE DID NOT play in either their closed scrimmage nor their open exhibition game against Lewis on Nov. 8, 2008.
the number of games you are ineligible for is not specified in the wording of the NCAA bylaw..
POB's regular season penalty was 8 games, Will Franklin's was 6 games, and yet the NCAA clearly cited BOTH should have been held out of the exhibitions ...
simply put, if you are ineligible to play a regular season game, then you are likewise ineligible to play an exhibition..
I can find 100 examples of where ineligible players DID NOT play exhibition games, but cannot find one beyond Wilkins where they did..
Mario Stula - yet another who got the Euro-professional penalty just as John Wilkins did, was docked 7 games (7 regular season games) at the start of 2008-2009 then he was fully eligible after that and played in every remaining game...but HE DID NOT play in either their closed scrimmage nor their open exhibition game against Lewis on Nov. 8, 2008.
the number of games you are ineligible for is not specified in the wording of the NCAA bylaw..
POB's regular season penalty was 8 games, Will Franklin's was 6 games, and yet the NCAA clearly cited BOTH should have been held out of the exhibitions ...
simply put, if you are ineligible to play a regular season game, then you are likewise ineligible to play an exhibition..
I can find 100 examples of where ineligible players DID NOT play exhibition games, but cannot find one beyond Wilkins where they did..
I assume if someone could find the exact ruling from the NCAA it would say what the suspension was... and I assume it was say either "5 regular season games" or "5 games, including the exhibition and/or any closed scrimmages".
Anyone have the press release?
I would also assume Jank and the ISU admins would have looked into this and if there was ANY question about it, they would have held him out...
Anyone have the press release?
I would also assume Jank and the ISU admins would have looked into this and if there was ANY question about it, they would have held him out...