So i was watching the game via cable. In the second half the refs went to review a foul, which looked to be a flagrant foul against drake. Next i know they call a flagrant foul against bradley and drake never looked back. The tv announcers were surprised at the call and they never showed what happened to call the foul against bradley. Curious what happened there.
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Flagrant foul
- Thread starter pauly616
- Start date
Biggest officiating mishap of the season… almost reminds of the goaltending call they missed against Drake when Drake came to Peoria … funny how Drake gets the preferential calls
This flagrant foul debacle has me mind boggled.
Hannah drives to the basket and gets hammered by #1 From Drake. Hannah misses the shot, gets his rebound- ref calls foul. BUT as the play is continuing there’s both players coming down on their feet still somewhat bobbling at the ball and #1 from Drake gives a little shove to Hannah- Hannah flys off the court.
Now the replay comes on, all of America can see that #1 did give the shove to Hannah. You can even the see the reaction on the faces of the cheerleaders watching it happen. The most obvious of obvious calls. One broadcaster announces there’s a Flagrant 1 on the play- well hell that’s a no brainer.
The refs are then huddled up, discussing the situation - would have liked to know what these idiots were saying- after they talk it out- there’s then a double technical. The refs says Duke shoved #1 after Hannah had flew off the court. (Replay says another story) and they give #1 from Drake a tech.
here’s where it gets interesting:
Hannah shoots two free throws.. then Mascari gets two freethrows. Why in the world are they shooting freethrows- it’s a double technical!! They cancel out. Not the case. After Mascari shoots his freethrows- Drake then in bounds the ball and play resumes.
it’s a double tech, Hannah shoots his free throws that’s correct BUT WHY DOES MASCARI SHOOT TWO AND THEN GET THE BALL BACK? Drake initiated the technical foul, hell they initiated the flagrant 1 before this double technical non sense comes about… makes 0 sense.
Stirtz also had two freethrows after a time out neither team was in the bonus and the call was on the floor. how is our coaching staff not seeing this?!
that double technical was a huge game changer. We should have had 2 free throws, (2) flag 1 freethrows and the ball back. We got two freethrows and they got two freethrows and they got the ball back… ??? Make it make sense
This flagrant foul debacle has me mind boggled.
Hannah drives to the basket and gets hammered by #1 From Drake. Hannah misses the shot, gets his rebound- ref calls foul. BUT as the play is continuing there’s both players coming down on their feet still somewhat bobbling at the ball and #1 from Drake gives a little shove to Hannah- Hannah flys off the court.
Now the replay comes on, all of America can see that #1 did give the shove to Hannah. You can even the see the reaction on the faces of the cheerleaders watching it happen. The most obvious of obvious calls. One broadcaster announces there’s a Flagrant 1 on the play- well hell that’s a no brainer.
The refs are then huddled up, discussing the situation - would have liked to know what these idiots were saying- after they talk it out- there’s then a double technical. The refs says Duke shoved #1 after Hannah had flew off the court. (Replay says another story) and they give #1 from Drake a tech.
here’s where it gets interesting:
Hannah shoots two free throws.. then Mascari gets two freethrows. Why in the world are they shooting freethrows- it’s a double technical!! They cancel out. Not the case. After Mascari shoots his freethrows- Drake then in bounds the ball and play resumes.
it’s a double tech, Hannah shoots his free throws that’s correct BUT WHY DOES MASCARI SHOOT TWO AND THEN GET THE BALL BACK? Drake initiated the technical foul, hell they initiated the flagrant 1 before this double technical non sense comes about… makes 0 sense.
Stirtz also had two freethrows after a time out neither team was in the bonus and the call was on the floor. how is our coaching staff not seeing this?!
that double technical was a huge game changer. We should have had 2 free throws, (2) flag 1 freethrows and the ball back. We got two freethrows and they got two freethrows and they got the ball back… ??? Make it make sense
houstonbrave
Member
Yes the only T was on Duke.
Correct, but I think the refs announced it wrong too.
Canton BU fan
Member
I was there for all 11 games of the tournament and this officiating crew had several questionable moments. How can the biggest game of the entire conference season not have a more competent crew?
Dubl R 1
Active member
Final Four refs or not...they were awful. The flagrant foul review was a joke. I was sitting directly behind/under the bucket where the play happened about 3 rows up. You could (in real time) easily see the Drake Player wrestle the ball away from Hannah...even tho a foul had already been called, which was fine, but after he had the ball he both elbowed, AND followed thru with a shove of his free hand to throw "help" Hanna fly into the crowd.
After the debacle of a review, a fan asked the ref during the next timeout to explain what happened., then asked why it wasn't a flagrant/tech on Drakes player, and he responded with "no, Hannahs momentum was already carrying him out, so the elbow and shove wasn't what caused him to fall"....
So, If I walk up to a guy and try to punch him but miss, it's not a flagrant or a T?....of course BRADLEY gets the short end of the stick for something Drake initiated..
Also, Stirtz got fouled WHILE DRIBBLING a few plays before the above debacle, nowhere near the act of shooting, and after they came out of the timeout he shot 2 free throws...was nowhere near shooting, and BU had only 3 team fouls...no explanation for that.
Later, 2 refs signaled a 10 second violation on Drake when bringing up the ball, then the 3rd ref came over and they talked for 2 min WITHOUT reviewing anything, then again, no explanation given, gave Drake the ball back with 18 on the shot clock, and they inbounded the ball and slowly walked it up to the timeline AGAIN!..... no idea what the call was
After the debacle of a review, a fan asked the ref during the next timeout to explain what happened., then asked why it wasn't a flagrant/tech on Drakes player, and he responded with "no, Hannahs momentum was already carrying him out, so the elbow and shove wasn't what caused him to fall"....
So, If I walk up to a guy and try to punch him but miss, it's not a flagrant or a T?....of course BRADLEY gets the short end of the stick for something Drake initiated..
Also, Stirtz got fouled WHILE DRIBBLING a few plays before the above debacle, nowhere near the act of shooting, and after they came out of the timeout he shot 2 free throws...was nowhere near shooting, and BU had only 3 team fouls...no explanation for that.
Later, 2 refs signaled a 10 second violation on Drake when bringing up the ball, then the 3rd ref came over and they talked for 2 min WITHOUT reviewing anything, then again, no explanation given, gave Drake the ball back with 18 on the shot clock, and they inbounded the ball and slowly walked it up to the timeline AGAIN!..... no idea what the call was
agree on both calls...here's my observation... but of course, I am not the ref...
the foul they called when Stirtz was dribbling into the lane, maybe he was going to shoot, but he lost control of the ball and was lunging toward the baseline trying to get full control back. It definitly should NOT have been a shooting foul
The 10 second call should have stood, but one ref said the ball had entered the frontcourt but was tipped back into the backcourt. But if you look carefully at a replay, that is bogus, the ball was tipped before it got into the frontcourt and it remained in the backcourt - shoulda been a 10 sec violaton call.
Stirtz has the flop down solid. He just drives into the lane throws his hands up and just get fouls called.
The 18 second thing was because they alleged a change of possession when CD saved the ball inbounds.
tomahawk chop
Member
Kelly Self and Kip Kissinger to me are just bad officials. This is the reason why coach said awhile back on his post game show that he didn"t understand why it seemed like the officials this year were not fair to BU.We have had so many bogus calls against us this season . The defender has every right to stand by the basket jump straight up and not be called for a foul. It seems like they do not know the verticality rule, 3 seconds in the lane and palming the ball which just about every player does anymore to gain an advantage.
The refs also blew the 10-second violation call. It was called a 10-second violation on the floor when Bradley pressed the Drake player in the backcourt and he passed the ball into the front court. But a Bradley player knocked it away from the intended Drake player and it bounced back into the backcourt. At no time was it in Bradley's possession, and at no time was it possessed by anyone in the frontcourt. If I understand the rule correctly, that should have remained a violation. But for some reason, one of the other officials overruled the call and it was given back to Drake to inbound in the backcourt.
It did not affect the final outcome, but I do not believe it should not have been overruled by the official on the other side of the court.
It did not affect the final outcome, but I do not believe it should not have been overruled by the official on the other side of the court.
as I noted above-
the explanation given to the announcers was the one ref who overturned the violation ruled it was in possession in the frontcourt before being tipped back to the backcourt
Dubl R 1
Active member
If that is the case, why wasn’t the shot clock reset to 30 seconds on a change of possession?… it wasn’t even reset to 20 .. it remained at 18 seconds when they inbounded the ball
the ruling was NOT that possession had changed, but that a Drake player had the ball in the frontcourt but then it was tipped by a Bradley player back into the backcourt. So the 30 sec possession clock was not changed, but the 10-second backcourt count was restarted.
Of course anyone with eyes could see the ball never went into the frontcourt.
To be fair- Drake outplayed Bradley and would have won regardless of the bad calls, but that doesn't negate that there were numerous really bad calls, the ridiculous flagrant, over-the-back calls that wasn't whistled allowing Manyawu to grab multiple offensive rebounds that shouldn't have been allowed, the gift FTs to Stirtz when he wasn't even shooting and probably wasn't even fouled, and others - and every single one of them went against Bradley.
Dubl R 1
Active member
Gotcha...yeah that's nuts....the ball never even made it across the timeline. Didn't this same crew do the Drake Belmont game?....Drake shot 20 more free throws than Belmont...laughable..
Yes. And I told my good friend after the Drake / Belmont game that if we got hosed by the officials like Belmont did, we were cooked. As it turns out, BU just needed to play better, but Drake benefitted from a lot of calls alllllll weekend.
Tommy
Well-known member
YES! If anyone had a beef about officiating in the tournament, it was Belmont in the Drake game. They really got screwed.