Games of Interest, Saturday 12/5

[amckillip]

When will Tornado take his BU Goggles off? He will hardly ever give ISU any credit...and continues to bring up their schedule to validate any of his reasoning. Tornado needs a new strategy this one is getting rather old. It's hard to take one game, and make a conclusion from it. I watched the game last night...and I thought Central Michigan had a very good inside game. Much better than any inside game we have played this year other than Oklahoma St and Illinois. It's no secret Illinois State has a weak schedule...but they haven't been upset either. It would be easy to overlook a team that is far inferior, and lose.

What exactly does ISU deserve credit for? Beating, albeit at times not impressively, the cupcakes they have scheduled thus far?

Exactly.

Just because an arguement has been made before doesn't discredit it. ILSU scheduled terribly last year, and it showed come MVC play last year, it will again this year IMO. And CMU's inside game was better than our opponents EXCEPT OKSU and U of I? Well of friggin' course. Those two teams are so much better than ANYONE on ILSU's schedule it's not even funny. U of I pre-season was often described as having one of the best front-courts in the nation with Davis and Tisdale. In addition, CMU is not an impressive team, period, 3 maybe 4 of BU's non-con opponents so far are better than them. Many ILSU fans were saying the Bonnies were a solid win... then they almost get outscored two-fold.

Saying an argument gets old, when it still holds true, quickly shows there isn't a valid way to discredit it.

 

[Da Coach]

BUfan73, you pseudonym doesn't fool anyone. You seem to be an ISU fan in sheeps clothing, and and I can understand why criticism of ISUs schedule irritates the heck out of you.

 

[tornado]

When will Tornado take his BU Goggles off? ..

interesting...
because on this topic, not only am I 100% correct, but many ISU fans not only agree with me but are even more vociferous and critical on the subject than I have ever been.
So if you want to attack me for something, pick something that you have at least a case to try to defend...

 

[DannyCooksey]

ILSU scheduled terribly last year, and it showed come MVC play last year, it will again this year IMO.

amc......question for you. what exactly did it show come MVC play? As a bu fan which you claim to be, it doesn't make too much sense what you are postulating since despite ISU's 'terrible' schedule last year they still:

1-split the season series with bu....if ISU was so bad and ill-prepared as you claim shouldn't you have swept them handily?

2-finished higher in the reg season standings than bu for the 2nd straight season

3-advanced further than bu in the Valley tourney for the 2nd straight season

4-went to a better post-season tournament than bu for the 2nd straight season

So.........I guess in relation to UNI and Drake (the only 2 NCAA reps the past 2 years from the Valley) the ISU "terrible" schedule was exposed. In relation to bu and what they've 'accomplished' the past 2 years? Uh not so much.

ISU's schedule blows. That's a dead issue (or it should be). No ISU fan is happy with it. None of them are. Find something else. Or better yet.......have a better season than ISU and their 'terrible' schedule and then you'd really be cooking with gas. With as bad as ISU is this year and their 'terrible' schedule, bu and their MIGHTY non conference slate should be prepared to sweep the Birds and finish 16-2 in the Valley this year. I'll look forward to watching that unfold.

 

[Da Coach]

When was the last time an MVC went undefeated in preconference schedule (11-0), then failed to finish in the top 2 in the conference or missed making the NCAA tournament?

And for 2007-08- when was the last time the top 2 teams in the MVC met in the MVC tournament final and one got blown out by 30 points and didn't make the NCAA tournament? By an opponent that failed to even win their first NCAA game?

I'd say he has a point that ISU's weakness showed against other MVC teams.

 

[dogsrus]

Well once again the topic has got diluted and all muddied up and the original question hasn't been answered......I'll try ONCE again but my head is allready spinning.

Does ISU have any more "reasons for concern" (you know the original claim) becuase they had trouble disposing of an inferior opponent then BU does/did when WE too strugggled to put a really bad team away?

Its really not THAT tough a question......

Keys to staying on topic and not diluting the question. Focus on the ONE game that was brought up....CMU vs ISU.

Again...we all know about ISU'd sked. Save that dead horse for the Veternarians office.

 

[dogsrus]

amc......question for you. what exactly did it show come MVC play? As a bu fan which you claim to be, it doesn't make too much sense what you are postulating since despite ISU's 'terrible' schedule last year they still:

1-split the season series with bu....if ISU was so bad and ill-prepared as you claim shouldn't you have swept them handily?

2-finished higher in the reg season standings than bu for the 2nd straight season

3-advanced further than bu in the Valley tourney for the 2nd straight season

4-went to a better post-season tournament than bu for the 2nd straight season

So.........I guess in relation to UNI and Drake (the only 2 NCAA reps the past 2 years from the Valley) the ISU "terrible" schedule was exposed. In relation to bu and what they've 'accomplished' the past 2 years? Uh not so much.

ISU's schedule blows. That's a dead issue (or it should be). No ISU fan is happy with it. None of them are. Find something else. Or better yet.......have a better season than ISU and their 'terrible' schedule and then you'd really be cooking with gas. With as bad as ISU is this year and their 'terrible' schedule, bu and their MIGHTY non conference slate should be prepared to sweep the Birds and finish 16-2 in the Valley this year. I'll look forward to watching that unfold.

OUCh...I have to agree. Thats why I say "worry about your OWN house first." Who ISU plays and schedules or ANY Valley team for that matter makes no difference to me personally.

Win the Valley regular season or the Tourney and it won't matter what anyone else does...PERIOD.

Thats why I don't understand the ORIGINAL claim...that "ISU has some concerns not being able to put away an inferior team."

Yet, as I stated, earlier this year when BU struggled against some inferior teams and a few expressed concerns, those were shot down quickly.

So I still ask...why should ISU be concerned and NOT BU. It doesn't make any sense. Well...it kinda does.

 

[amckillip]

amc......question for you. what exactly did it show come MVC play? As a bu fan which you claim to be, it doesn't make too much sense what you are postulating since despite ISU's 'terrible' schedule last year they still:

1-split the season series with bu....if ISU was so bad and ill-prepared as you claim shouldn't you have swept them handily?

ILSU came in undefeated to BU talking about going undefeated all season, you can discount the talk all you want, people were talking about it. BU beat them at home to end that, ILSU returned serve - to be expected.

2-finished higher in the reg season standings than bu for the 2nd straight season

You finished 1 game above us last year. By all acounts a down year for BU, graduating DRuff, JC and the like, while your best players were a junior and a senior. If thats what you want to hang your hat on, go for it.

3-advanced further than bu in the Valley tourney for the 2nd straight season

Correct, you advanced to lose to UNI, disgracefully so.

4-went to a better post-season tournament than bu for the 2nd straight season

You did go the NIT and win one(?) game, I'm not sure what that really gets you. But once again, if thats what you what to claim as the result of your undefeated non-con go for it.

So.........I guess in relation to UNI and Drake (the only 2 NCAA reps the past 2 years from the Valley) the ISU "terrible" schedule was exposed. In relation to bu and what they've 'accomplished' the past 2 years? Uh not so much.

What exactly has ILSU accomplished? Maybe I missed something...

ISU's schedule blows. That's a dead issue (or it should be). No ISU fan is happy with it. None of them are. Find something else. Or better yet.......have a better season than ISU and their 'terrible' schedule and then you'd really be cooking with gas. With as bad as ISU is this year and their 'terrible' schedule, bu and their MIGHTY non conference slate should be prepared to sweep the Birds and finish 16-2 in the Valley this year. I'll look forward to watching that unfold.

How is a perpetually terrible schedule year after year a dead issue? It happened last year, it happened this year, and there is nothing to suggest it will change. When has a team in the MVC had an undefeated non-con and NOT gone to the NCAA? UNI showed that playing real teams helps and that powder cakes don't do much of anything to actually help you. I do think BU is better prepared for the MVC this year than ILSU, and BU has at least one quality non-con win this year, more than ILSU even has a chance at. I NEVER said ILSU was bad, only that their non-con will do nothing to prepare them for the MVC season. Want to argue with that?

BU and ILSU finish even in the conference this year, who had the better year? I think most everyone would take BU.

If you as an ILSU fan want to 'cook with gas' then maybe your team should do, well really anything, worthy of hanging a banner at Bradley in the past decade.

 

[bert notorius]

So... This season, The Illini and The Expectation they win the B10 and go deep in the NCAA Tourney is no longer?

I thought they were to maybe be Final4 bound this year with a National Championship within the next couple years.

It can still be done...

But the dark cloud of "No Matter What UIUC Does, Bradley Beat Them Straight Up" on a neutral floor looms boldly.

UIUC is OWNED.

OWNED!

Til we play again.

Oh, right... BAM said he'd NEVER again blah, blah, blah....

Sorry UIUC fans. You are OWNED! OWNED by Bradley. OWNED by Bradley fans. Til the end of time. Or until BAM flip-flops. :lol:

This is how I cope. When we lose, it's just a game. When we win, youse guys suck, nah, nah, nah, na, na,.

Simple, but it works.

 

[DannyCooksey]

ILSU came in undefeated to BU talking about going undefeated all season, you can discount the talk all you want, people were talking about it. BU beat them at home to end that, ILSU returned serve - to be expected.



You finished 1 game above us last year. By all acounts a down year for BU, graduating DRuff, JC and the like, while your best players were a junior and a senior. If thats what you want to hang your hat on, go for it.



Correct, you advanced to lose to UNI, disgracefully so.


You did go the NIT and win one(?) game, I'm not sure what that really gets you. But once again, if thats what you what to claim as the result of your undefeated non-con go for it.



What exactly has ILSU accomplished? Maybe I missed something...



How is a perpetually terrible schedule year after year a dead issue? It happened last year, it happened this year, and there is nothing to suggest it will change. When has a team in the MVC had an undefeated non-con and NOT gone to the NCAA? UNI showed that playing real teams helps and that powder cakes don't do much of anything to actually help you. I do think BU is better prepared for the MVC this year than ILSU, and BU has at least one quality non-con win this year, more than ILSU even has a chance at. I NEVER said ILSU was bad, only that their non-con will do nothing to prepare them for the MVC season. Want to argue with that?

BU and ILSU finish even in the conference this year, who had the better year? I think most everyone would take BU.

If you as an ILSU fan want to 'cook with gas' then maybe your team should do, well really anything, worthy of hanging a banner at Bradley in the past decade.

I think I got it. Let's see:

--blame graduation............you forgot injuries the ole stand-by

--an overtime loss to the clear conference champion is a disgrace? um ok. I bet if bu reached that game and lost to UNI in OT it would be anything but a 'disgrace'

--ISU has done nothing "bu worthy".. good thing that isn't the objective

Well maybe it's not right to "hang your hat" on having a better season than bu. maybe it's not right to think losing in the conference title game in overtime isn't all that terrible.

but it's a lot better than hanging your hat on beating an undefeated team who by all accounts on this board wasn't good anyway and played no one. what does that say about your feelings of your own team? oh yeah: injuries, seniors leaving, down year etc.

For the record.......I wasn't implying that ISU had a great year or was exemplary in any way. I was merely pointing out the FACT that despite the weak PRE-SEASON schedule and every thing else, ISU still had a better year than bu. So........when a bu fan rips into ISU.... YET HAD BY ALL ACCOUNTS A WORSE SEASON.......it looks a wee bit hollow. but.......what am I thinking?

btw-when the schedules were equal (The Valley schedule) how were those results the past 2 years?

The great thing is this will be decided on the court soon enough. Followed of course by the excuse meter hitting tilt.

 

[Braves4Life]

Does ISU have any more "reasons for concern" (you know the original claim) becuase they had trouble disposing of an inferior opponent then BU does/did when WE too strugggled to put a really bad team away?

Its really not THAT tough a question......

Allow me dogs. Like you, and others, I was VERY unimpressed with BU's wins against Idaho St., Presby, and the first half against NIU. However, what gives me less reason to worry about BU is the fact that we have played 3 top 25 teams - winning one and losing competitively in the other two - plus we beat a slightly above-average team in Wofford. A win against WCU (a slight step up from Wofford) would also go a long way toward making me feel even better about these Braves (don't get me started on how I'll feel if we lose AT HOME to an inferior WCU ).

ISU, on the other hand, has ZERO marquee wins and ZERO marquee losses. I don't consider their win against CMU any more impressive than our win against Wofford or NIU. The difference is we have good games against 3 top 25 teams; they do not. If I was an ISU fan I would be VERY concerned since BU, MSU, ISU Blue, WSU, and other Valley teams have at least had the oppotunity to compete against Valley-caliber teams or better.

How's that dogs?

 

[Nacho]

I'm confused... which three opponents are in the top 25? http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings

It's a long season and it doesn't matter what a team was ranked when you beat them... just what they end up at... and none are currently in the top 25

 

[BradleyBrave]

I'm confused... which three opponents are in the top 25? http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings

It's a long season and it doesn't matter what a team was ranked when you beat them... just what they end up at... and none are currently in the top 25

If that were the case, then no one would have a win over a #1 team because more times then not, after #1 loses, they aren't #1 anymore. Wins over ranked teams count for what the team was ranked at the time of the win.

 

[Nacho]

If that were the case, then no one would have a win over a #1 team because more times then not, after #1 loses, they aren't #1 anymore. Wins over ranked teams count for what the team was ranked at the time of the win.

Well I disagree with that but i digress...

ranked teams is pretty irrelevant anyway... the key number, according to the selection committee anyway, is the W/L vs. the RPI 1-50, 51-100, etc etc... and those are all counted based on END OF SEASON numbers...

 

[amckillip]

I think I got it. Let's see:

--blame graduation............you forgot injuries the ole stand-by

--an overtime loss to the clear conference champion is a disgrace? um ok. I bet if bu reached that game and lost to UNI in OT it would be anything but a 'disgrace'

--ISU has done nothing "bu worthy".. good thing that isn't the objective

Well maybe it's not right to "hang your hat" on having a better season than bu. maybe it's not right to think losing in the conference title game in overtime isn't all that terrible.

but it's a lot better than hanging your hat on beating an undefeated team who by all accounts on this board wasn't good anyway and played no one. what does that say about your feelings of your own team? oh yeah: injuries, seniors leaving, down year etc.

For the record.......I wasn't implying that ISU had a great year or was exemplary in any way. I was merely pointing out the FACT that despite the weak PRE-SEASON schedule and every thing else, ISU still had a better year than bu. So........when a bu fan rips into ISU.... YET HAD BY ALL ACCOUNTS A WORSE SEASON.......it looks a wee bit hollow. but.......what am I thinking?

btw-when the schedules were equal (The Valley schedule) how were those results the past 2 years?

The great thing is this will be decided on the court soon enough. Followed of course by the excuse meter hitting tilt.

My point is that close but no cigar doesn't mean sh*t. I enjoy beating ILSU, U of I, etc. But unless you win the conference, win the tourney, or get into the NCAA's everything else is a matter of opinion. Just look at teams own fans opinion on a season.

 

[Braves4Life]

I'm confused... which three opponents are in the top 25? http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings

It's a long season and it doesn't matter what a team was ranked when you beat them... just what they end up at... and none are currently in the top 25

What is it my friend MacabreMob likes to say? Oh yea..... nit, pick, gotcha

 

[Nacho]

I prefer to call it facts... everyone around here is obsessed with them... and if you report something that is not a fact, you get ripped into... so I figured I would do my part in making the board as factually correct as possible ;-)

 

[shaunguth]

If that were the case, then no one would have a win over a #1 team because more times then not, after #1 loses, they aren't #1 anymore. Wins over ranked teams count for what the team was ranked at the time of the win.

Couldn't agree more! I guess if Illinois isn't ranked at the end of the year, then Bradley doesn't have any wins over Top 25 teams? That is interesting!

 

[tornado]

Well-- just as I predicted....ISU's horrible schedule is already bringing a negative light and bad press to the Valley

It happened last year, and as time goes on it'll happen agains this season.
There were numerous national articles last season highlighting ISU's weak schedule and it did indeed reflect badly on the Valley and became a nightmare for Doug Elgin to try to defend last March!!

Well..it's starting, exactly as predicted...
http://futurerpi.blogspot.com/2009/11/ten-softest-non-conference-schedules.html


**note how highly respected and expert national writers like Kyle Whelliston called out ISU for their "weak schedule"... last year
http://midmajority.com/2009/01/game-of-the-night-1142009-drak.php

and the ISU student newspaper also recognizes same..as does ther Pantagraph...so why doesn't Jank see it??
http://www.videtteonline.com/index.php?view=article&catid=68%3Asportsarchive&id=26106%3Aschedule-could-be-achilles--heel-in-march&format=pdf&option=com_content&Itemid=55