• Welcome to BradleyFans.com! Visitors are welcome, but we encourage you to sign up and register as a member. It's free and takes only a few seconds. Just click on the link to Register at the top right of the page, and follow instructions. If you have any problems or questions, click on the link at the bottom right of the page to Contact Us.

I WAS for the CBI....

I certainly don't disagree that it was poorly officiated but one of the refs actually just got done with an NCAA regional so at least one was solid.

Tulsa fans complained most about the hairpiece ref.

As for the box score, I have no idea what is going on there. TU usually has that up 45 minutes after the game. I've seen stats in articles but no box scores. Really weird.
 
To be honest I don't really care if Tulsa got called for just as many fouls as Bradley. All that says to me is that they did some ACTUAL fouling during the game. There were at least 7 calls that I can think of off the top of my head that were unbelievably ridiculous. And not only was fouls, which you can see in a stat sheet, it was also little things like out of bounds calls that continually and suspiciously went out of bounds on us. One in particular I remember MS on the defensive end going up against Jordan for a rebound; MS's right hand was trying to swat the ball towards our offensive court and the ball ended up getting smacked out of bounds underneath the net. The call....Tulsa's ball underneath the basket. What did MS do??? Backhand the ball out of bounds at 20 mph....

It wasn't just about calls it was anything and everything the officials could get their hands on, and that DOES affect a game and no one will ever convince me otherwise...especially if it's only a 5 point difference.

Another thing anyone notice? On our run to come back a little bit..the calls that had been going against all night all of the sudden didn't. Good job CBI you got the almost comeback that you wanted to make it interesting (you couldn't have a boring game could you?), and you got the home team to win so it goes 3 games. Well done.
 
We can argue officiating all we want, it was a road game in a hostile environment so calls that are questionable are going to happen.

But what we really should be upset with is the absolute lack of rebounding again from this basketball team, specifically a Jim Les coach basketball team. To get out rebounded again but this time by 17 overall and 9 on the offensive end is inexcusible. Except, this has been occuring continually for the last 2 years. I am, for one, tired of seeing 2nd, 3rd, 4th opportunities for other teams. We do not box out, we do not go after the basketball, we only allow the other team to get rebounds and continued offensive possessions.

As frustrating as it is to see a huge free throw advantage to Tulsa, 37 to 18, the rebounding numbers are equally frustrating and somewhat mind numbing. Also, many of those free throws and our fouls are directly related to us not having any aggression on the defensive boards and letting the other team simply dictate the rebounding, going over the back because we do not want position or fouling the rebounder on their put back.
 
Hey I have a thought...we'll have to wait and see, but what if one or more of last night's refs
ALSO work Friday's game in Tulsa..........

If that turns out to be the case, then whoever such a ref is, would have obviously known in his thoughts, that Tulsa has to make it to a Friday game or else he'd be out of a gig, and the $800 - $1200 or so that goes with it.
Hmmm.....let's see.......
 
We got bulldogged by the refs. There were some unbelievably bad calls made, and some just completely amazing no-calls that benefitted TU. That happens sometimes, though, and you have to play through it as best you can. Bradley could have won this game, despite the refereeing, and made it close in the end. You have to hit more of your free throws, and you have to do a better job rebounding.
 
tornado said:
Hey I have a thought...we'll have to wait and see, but what if one or more of last night's refs
ALSO work Friday's game in Tulsa..........

If that turns out to be the case, then whoever such a ref is, would have obviously known in his thoughts, that Tulsa has to make it to a Friday game or else he'd be out of a gig, and the $800 - $1200 or so that goes with it.
Hmmm.....let's see.......
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!!!! I do hope they use other refs just for the integrity of it all.
 
Da Coach said:
I don't know which half you are referring to, but there was never a time that the fouls were even, in either the 1st or 2nd half. In the 2nd half, I think Bradley had 9 fouls before Tulsa had their 2nd! And Tulsa was hand-checking, and playing aggressive around the basket, more so than BU was.

I was sitting courtside, and I saw the worst officiated game I have seen in many years. And although there were some bad calls againt TU, the majority of them went against Bradley. Jim Les was complaining all night, while Doug Wojcik had only a rare word for the refs.

Jerome Jordan is a fine player, but most of his offensive rebounds came from jumpingover a Bradley player's back. He's really good at that, and the BU player can't get to the rebound because Jordan's arm stops him from jumping. That is usually a foul, but it never was last night. Except for the one key rebound David Collins tried for, then it was a foul immediately.
I could poiny out a dozen more non-calls for TU, and ticky-tack calls against BU, but what good would it do. I was convinced midway through the game that this series was destined to go 3 games. I hope it does. I would like to see the CBI make money, just like they would.

And the NBA continuation foul call that gave TU a 3-point play at a crucial time when BU needed a stop, was easily the worst such call I have ever seen in college basketball. Is there anyone who has ever see a player fouled that far from the basket, then get a dribble and 2 steps before shooting and get a free throw, too?

By the was, is there some conspiracy against posting the simple box score? It is still nowhere to be found on the BU or TU website. And the CBI website doesn't even acknowledge the score.

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2007-2008/tlsm0331.html
Click to expand...

Wojcik alreadys rides the refs. I think he knew there was a short leash last night. Seriously, I haven't seen many work refs as well as Doug does and he had neery a word.

The continuation call was terrible.

That said, 22 sure got to push on Jordan a lot with four fouls.

It was poor officiating all around and it's a shame that two good teams had to put up with it. Neither team is particularly deep, though it seems that Bradley at least has a couple of bigs on the bench to gets fouls.
 
beano...I know the appearance of bias when I see it...but proving intent on bias is, of course,
impossible, since how can you know what's inside someone's mind.

But what about this.........

In Illinois State's home win in the NIT over Utah State, look who one of the refs is...........
http://www.mvc.org/mbb/stats/ils-m19.htm

One of the refs is Rick Hartzell, who I am sure you know quite well,
just happens to be the Athletic Director of ISU's conference mate University of Northern Iowa.
http://unipanthers.cstv.com/genrel/hartzell_rick00.html

205407.jpeg

UNI Athletic Director Rick Hartzell
who reffed ISU's home NIT win vs. USU


Now seriously.....since ISU will share some of its NIT revenue with UNI, and so therefore,
Rick Hartzell literally gains directly in a financial way from ISU's win, then don't you think the
NIT organizers should have done whatever necessary to AVOID even the remote appearance of bias or conflict in the selection of refs?

This example is one that the Utah State people should have made a stink out of!!!!!!!!!!!
I know it is just an example, but a pretty powerful one at that which I think
proves the tournament organizers really don't care about the "appearance" of bias
and just maybe don't even care about the reality of it either.....you decide.......
 
I admit that I don't usually like blaming games on officiating also. But come on...that was a little extreme. You said it yourself that this tournament is about money and if you were getting the benefits of this tournament and the benefits of one more game...you wouldn't want that third game? Give me a break...of course you would. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this isn't a shot at a president from a grassy knoll, this is fact: the tournament is about money and the people want to GET that money. Of course they are going to do whatever they can to get a 3rd game. I'm really surprised that people think this stuff is a conspiracy theory when in reality it makes perfect sense. You're admitting that it's about money but yet you don't believe that they would benefit from an extra game. It's not us who are off.

And the only thing that comes to mind about us getting more ft's in the previous games is we aren't a fouling team. Which proves our point even more. And a staggering difference between those previous games and this one is that those games weren't one game of a series. The better team needed to win in those games, but now with this series the first game can go to one team, the second can go to the other, and then the third will be just like the other two post season tourneys....a one game final.
 
Hey gold...there's a waiting period to post on your board, so I can't post this there. I see someone posted they need more people to sign up for the bus to Peoria or there won't be a bus. Are Bradley fans from Tulsa welcome?
 
tornado said:
beano...I know the appearance of bias when I see it...but proving intent on bias is, of course,
impossible, since how can you know what's inside someone's mind.

But what about this.........

In Illinois State's home win in the NIT over Utah State, look who one of the refs is...........
http://www.mvc.org/mbb/stats/ils-m19.htm

One of the refs is Rick Hartzell, who I am sure you know quite well,
just happens to be the Athletic Director of ISU's conference mate University of Northern Iowa.
http://unipanthers.cstv.com/genrel/hartzell_rick00.html

205407.jpeg

UNI Athletic Director Rick Hartzell
who reffed ISU's home NIT win vs. USU


Now seriously.....since ISU will share some of its NIT revenue with UNI, and so therefore,
Rick Hartzell literally gains directly in a financial way from ISU's win, then don't you think the
NIT organizers should have done whatever necessary to AVOID even the remote appearance of bias or conflict in the selection of refs?

This example is one that the Utah State people should have made a stink out of!!!!!!!!!!!
I know it is just an example, but a pretty powerful one at that which I think
proves the tournament organizers really don't care about the "appearance" of bias
and just maybe don't even care about the reality of it either.....you decide.......
Click to expand...

Rick Hartzell is no longer the AD at UNI and wasn't the AD at UNI when he officiated the ISU game in the NIT game. If he were still the AD there he wouldn't have been allowed to do the game.

In fact, he had an ugly falling out with UNI. I doubt he cares to see UNI gain financially and UNI wouldn't gain from an ISU home win in the NIT anyway.
 
I am sure this tourney as with anything it is about money.

But then why did the CBI not "reseed" and give Bradley a possible two home games?

11K v 7K is a no brainer for more money.
 
Bradleyguy10 said:
I admit that I don't usually like blaming games on officiating also. But come on...that was a little extreme. You said it yourself that this tournament is about money and if you were getting the benefits of this tournament and the benefits of one more game...you wouldn't want that third game? Give me a break...of course you would. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this isn't a shot at a president from a grassy knoll, this is fact: the tournament is about money and the people want to GET that money. Of course they are going to do whatever they can to get a 3rd game. I'm really surprised that people think this stuff is a conspiracy theory when in reality it makes perfect sense. You're admitting that it's about money but yet you don't believe that they would benefit from an extra game. It's not us who are off.

And the only thing that comes to mind about us getting more ft's in the previous games is we aren't a fouling team. Which proves our point even more. And a staggering difference between those previous games and this one is that those games weren't one game of a series. The better team needed to win in those games, but now with this series the first game can go to one team, the second can go to the other, and then the third will be just like the other two post season tourneys....a one game final.
Click to expand...

So the officials were calling it fair in the first three games when BU shot a lot more free throws but were biased and calling it unfairly in the one game BU committed more fouls than the oppenent. Ok, gotcha.

If you believe in this silly theory how did they go about doing it? Did the CBI President or whoever it is go into the officials lockerroom and tell them to call the fouls one sided? Did they get extra money for calling more fouls? Were they zapped everytime the made a wrong call?

The officials are professional. They want to get hired in the future. They aren't going to risk a reputation and career just to "set up" the finals of a random CBI tournament that very few people outside of Tulsa and Bradley cares about.
 
OK the officiating was bad, everyone thinks that after a Bradley loss. The continuation call was definitely pathetic and the worst call I've ever seen.

IT DOESN"T MATTER How 'bout instead of that lets talk about the complete lack of rebounding. Nothing makes me more sick to my stomach than watching a close game where the opposing team routinely gets 3 looks at the basket. At one point we were down 14 and they showed a stat where we were shooting 45% from the field and Tulsa was shooting 40%. That just doesn't add up to a 14 point deficit. However, all that shows is that Tulsa was able to miss 3 shots per possesion and still score every time they got the ball. Get a body on someone. Sick. Stop it with the conspiracy theories. Good stats on the fouls the first three games BC.
 
Bradleyguy10 said:
I admit that I don't usually like blaming games on officiating also. But come on...that was a little extreme. You said it yourself that this tournament is about money and if you were getting the benefits of this tournament and the benefits of one more game...you wouldn't want that third game? Give me a break...of course you would. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this isn't a shot at a president from a grassy knoll, this is fact: the tournament is about money and the people want to GET that money. Of course they are going to do whatever they can to get a 3rd game. I'm really surprised that people think this stuff is a conspiracy theory when in reality it makes perfect sense. You're admitting that it's about money but yet you don't believe that they would benefit from an extra game. It's not us who are off.

And the only thing that comes to mind about us getting more ft's in the previous games is we aren't a fouling team. Which proves our point even more. And a staggering difference between those previous games and this one is that those games weren't one game of a series. The better team needed to win in those games, but now with this series the first game can go to one team, the second can go to the other, and then the third will be just like the other two post season tourneys....a one game final.
Click to expand...

OK, lemme throw this scenario at ya and see how this plays with your theory, and yes, it's still a theory until PROVEN FACT, not just it "makes perfect sense."

Here it is:

Information comes out that the Gazelle Group had organized some sort of rigging for last night's game. Obviously, they never can run this tournament again because they have lost ALL credibility. Also, remember they also run three (3) other tournaments during the year as well, those go bye-bye too. So, in an effort to make money for ONE MORE GAME, the Gazelle Group was willing to put this tournament and every future tournament, and therefore the money that comes from those, at risk???

No freakin' way.

These posts that are attacking the integrity of the officials and the Gazelle Group, without any proof, are reckless and irresponsible. It's very disheartening to see it on this board who likes to break its collective arm patting itself on the back about its objectivity.
 
Who said anything about it losing all credibility and the tournament and the other things it puts on going away. Of course they won't. Them ensuring a 3rd game won't be enough to dismantle the entire thing, which is why they do it. And I don't care that it's only one more game out of all the other games they put on. America is a penny pushing country and the people at the top like CEO's will find every possible way to make an extra nickel, whether it's one more game, or whether it's getting cheap labor from China. Sorry to bring this to a national level, it's getting a little off topic, but I'm just using it to prove a point that everyone that is the head of something is all about money and how to get more of it. This is their median of doing it, and I never said it has only happened in this one game. I can pick plenty of games where the team that will generate more income will be favored.

I'm done talking about this...it's over...all I want is a fair game on Friday if we even get there.
 
I am all for the "conspiracy theories", but....

If it all was fixed, then how come Virginia didn't make it to the Finals?

wink2.gif
 
If Hartzell isn't with UNI, then I didn't klnow, as I got that pic and bio page right from their web site....??

Anyway, here's another thing I found out...

In the NIT games at ISU...
the win over Utah State was officiated by three guys with lots of ties (including Hartzell) to the midwest and to the Valley.

In the loss to Dayton, suddenly the opposite was true...one of the refs was equally tied to both teams but the other two had DONE ONLY east coast games and A-10 games!!
Could it be that the NIT maybe would have preferred to get Dayton and Ohio State matched up instead of ISU & OSU?

I find it interesting...let's see who they get to ref tomorrow's game in Peoria and Friday's in Tulsa.

I know and have talked to numerous refs (high school, even college), even one Valley ref who is a close personal friend and a business "client", and they universally (if they speak at all of it) will admit privately that of course they are biased, and they even intensely dislike (some use the word "hate") certain coaches and programs, but that they rarely admit it, never speak of it in public, and wouldn't want to damage their livelihood, but nonetheless, they admit to bias.... and I cannot imagine they could be totally unbiased even if they tried to be!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top