So being home to a Fortune 50 Company in CAT, a very hip company like Maui Jim, and having a burgeoning medical community, etc... makes Peoria a "slow, podunk, hick-town"? So be it. Aside from Loyola, not one of the other schools in the MVC is located in such a community, and neither are half of the schools in the Big Ten. At the end of the day, kids either want to go to the highest possible level, or play for the very best mid-major team they can. For some academic offerings are part of the decision. For others, somewhat stringent academics can be a deterrent. If Bradley starts winning at a high level, recruits will come, and it won't have anything to do with Peoria, or that it's a "slow, podunk, hick-town".
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Interesting GF Comment Re 2013-14 Recruiting
- Thread starter AZ BU Fan
- Start date
So being home to a Fortune 50 Company in CAT, a very hip company like Maui Jim, and having a burgeoning medical community, etc... makes Peoria a "slow, podunk, hick-town"? So be it. Aside from Loyola, not one of the other schools in the MVC is located in such a community, and neither are half of the schools in the Big Ten. At the end of the day, kids either want to go to the highest possible level, or play for the very best mid-major team they can. For some academic offerings are part of the decision. For others, somewhat stringent academics can be a deterrent. If Bradley starts winning at a high level, recruits will come, and it won't have anything to do with Peoria, or that it's a "slow, podunk, hick-town".
tornado
New member
as always - I think you misread what I said...
I did not say Peoria IS podunk - I love Peoria and chose to live my life here...but it is hardly deniable that Peoria is PERCEIVED by many outside of Central IL as being far different than it really is..
BTW -- tell me what percentage of Chicago high school basketball players do you think could answer the question of where is the corporate headquarters of Maui Jim or even CAT -- I will bet it is FAR less than 10%
...and probably only 10% could even name the city Bradley University sits in but I guarantee they all know where Loyola, DePaul, and even NIU & ISU are...
but again - you seem to say that we won't get the best players UNTIL "Bradley starts winning at a high level"...but I say we need some of the best players WAY before then since that may not happen without the best players.
I did not say Peoria IS podunk - I love Peoria and chose to live my life here...but it is hardly deniable that Peoria is PERCEIVED by many outside of Central IL as being far different than it really is..
BTW -- tell me what percentage of Chicago high school basketball players do you think could answer the question of where is the corporate headquarters of Maui Jim or even CAT -- I will bet it is FAR less than 10%
...and probably only 10% could even name the city Bradley University sits in but I guarantee they all know where Loyola, DePaul, and even NIU & ISU are...
but again - you seem to say that we won't get the best players UNTIL "Bradley starts winning at a high level"...but I say we need some of the best players WAY before then since that may not happen without the best players.
I didn't misread what you said, nor did I attribute the quote to you. I was only confirming that it was in your post. I don't think high school kids care for one minute about Maui Jim or CAT. The point was specific to the comparison of the community in general to other communities in the Missouri Valley Conference. Kids don't go to the school (or not go to the school) because of the city. They go to the school first because it's the highest level they can achieve. Second, because it's highly competitive at that specific level. Or third (and only occasionally) because of the academics offered. Peoria is not holding back Bradley basketball.
tornado
New member
then we disagree - it is one of the factors..as is the lack of a PE major program...
I occasionally get the chance to talk with a head coach of a certain university in Macomb and he is fully aware that he went from bad to worse when he went from Peoria to Macomb...but at least WIU has a PE program and although it suffers even more from the podunk perception - it actually is in some ways, a little bit more of a prototypical college town than Peoria is.
I have sent 5 kids off to college already and all of them want at least some of this kind of stuff to look forward to...they never saw much of it in Peoria
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/TRAVEL/11/02/college.towns/t1larg.burlington.jpg
http://www.reinhartrealtors.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Downtown-Ann-Arbor.jpg
http://sc-events.s3.amazonaws.com/3721339/main.jpg
http://images.forbes.com/media/2009/05/19/college-town_athens_georgia.jpg
http://dy.snimg.com/story-image/2/58/206474/61251-650-366.jpg
http://taylortailgates.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/dtate_street.jpg
I'm ok with disagreeing. Reasonable people can indeed disagree.
I do agree with the PE major issue, but that isn't a Peoria problem.
As far as the WIU comparison goes, sure, there is a big difference between an urban university campus like Bradley and one like WIU (which is a large part of a much smaller community). I went to school at EIU. When the students are in session, they make up nearly half of the population Charleston. That being said, staying to my point of comparing to other MVC communities, I don't believe that student athletes are more inclined to choose Terre Haute, Evansville, Cedar Falls, Carbondale, Springfield, or Wichita ahead of Peoria based on the merits of the off-campus community.
Again, I think it's ok for us to disagree on this point.
tornado
New member
OC - I respect your thoughts - so answer me this...
in a word or two tell me what is the hurdle that has kept Bradley from landing kids from Chicago and even from Peoria (Manual, Central, etc..)?
It transcends decades, and covers every coach back to Versace...even to Stowell...
in a word or two tell me what is the hurdle that has kept Bradley from landing kids from Chicago and even from Peoria (Manual, Central, etc..)?
It transcends decades, and covers every coach back to Versace...even to Stowell...
I thought DV did a good job recruiting Chicago.
tornado
New member
yeah - he got a few great ones - that's what I meant by "back to Versace" but not back including Versace....
but Dick's biggest successes were mostly kinda overlooked kids like JJ, Anthony Manuel, & Hersey who other schools mostly passed on...
JL came via Niles & Cleveland State...then it drops off to Bertolini, etc......
but as I said elsewhere - I am happy with the Chicago recruiting ability of a Dick Versace - but to regain that kind of prowess in Chi-town we're gonna need to get someone with a Versace-type, leader, charismatic, energetic get-em-to the pros type personality.
but Dick's biggest successes were mostly kinda overlooked kids like JJ, Anthony Manuel, & Hersey who other schools mostly passed on...
JL came via Niles & Cleveland State...then it drops off to Bertolini, etc......
but as I said elsewhere - I am happy with the Chicago recruiting ability of a Dick Versace - but to regain that kind of prowess in Chi-town we're gonna need to get someone with a Versace-type, leader, charismatic, energetic get-em-to the pros type personality.
I won't exaggerate my knowledge of Bradley basketball, or understanding of recruiting beyond my time or scope, but here goes it.
I've always worked under the assumption that recruiting Chicago is very political. Some people have the relationships (and stomach for it), and others don't. There have been times over the past 35 years when Bradley has had the connections and other times when they haven't. It's really difficult to develop an on-going pipeline. Even Illinois has struggled doing so.
As for the Peoria kids, you'll have to remind me if there have ever been Peoria kids that Bradley really wanted who went to an equal or lesser program instead of playing for the Braves. I can't really think of any. Most of the local kids who Bradley misses on seem to end up playing up a level.
tornado
New member
very political and a lot of it is under the table - we definitely agree on that..but don't discount the truly talented kids in some Chicago-area-based AAU programs
that are solid D-I kids and they are not smeared with politics or sleaze...
... there were overtures from the likes of Sergio, Frankie Williams, Jamar Smith, Bobo, Billy Cole, Griffin, Marlon Brooks, Marcus Jackson, Steve Turner, John Little who all might have done both themselves and Bradley some good had they landed here - but certain barriers that go back to the 1990's prevented most of them from even considering BU..
Outside of Peoria, where those "influences" have virtually NO power - and under Bich - where that "influence" was negated -
then you see we DID land Jeremy Crouch, Dyricus, Prosser, Dodie, Ruffin, Cellus...
BTW -- remember this story...how Tony Bennett - who had a GREAT career & GREAT experience here at Bradley
told of how he was HEAVILY pressured to NOT consider Bradley!!!
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=209628&postcount=29
note - this mention of how Tony Bennett overcame the intense pressuring from his coaches and gurus in Chicago - qualifies and "good post" for counting purposes..
that are solid D-I kids and they are not smeared with politics or sleaze...
... there were overtures from the likes of Sergio, Frankie Williams, Jamar Smith, Bobo, Billy Cole, Griffin, Marlon Brooks, Marcus Jackson, Steve Turner, John Little who all might have done both themselves and Bradley some good had they landed here - but certain barriers that go back to the 1990's prevented most of them from even considering BU..
Outside of Peoria, where those "influences" have virtually NO power - and under Bich - where that "influence" was negated -
then you see we DID land Jeremy Crouch, Dyricus, Prosser, Dodie, Ruffin, Cellus...
BTW -- remember this story...how Tony Bennett - who had a GREAT career & GREAT experience here at Bradley
told of how he was HEAVILY pressured to NOT consider Bradley!!!
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=209628&postcount=29
note - this mention of how Tony Bennett overcame the intense pressuring from his coaches and gurus in Chicago - qualifies and "good post" for counting purposes..
I agree. All of those players would have likely helped the Braves very much or at least contributed.
That being said, I don't think any of these players actually rejected an active offer from Bradley to play at an equal or lower level. As for the kids Bradley really wanted and lost on, 99% of the time, I'll expect a kid to choose playing in the Big Ten over playing at Bradley.
tornado
New member
the "barrier" that I think stands between BU & Peoria kids as well as a similar "barrier" between BU & the Chicago kids - is hinted at in that story about Tony Bennett - and has been talked about on this board before...
-BU & our recruiters think Bradley is a good opportunity for any Chicago kid or any Peoria kid, we play at a high level, we get players to the pros & NBA, and there's a lot of good about Bradley - but we're not going to kiss your *** and promise playing time or hire your high school coaches just to get you - so why aren't y'all interested???
-The kid see two things....(1) where ya been for so long since you haven't aggressively been recruiting us and sweetening the deal by hiring our high school coaches and finding a way to "make us happy"...
and (2) our high school coaches tell us Bradley is NOT where we should go because you don't "play our game"...and don't kiss our guys' ***
-BU & our recruiters think Bradley is a good opportunity for any Chicago kid or any Peoria kid, we play at a high level, we get players to the pros & NBA, and there's a lot of good about Bradley - but we're not going to kiss your *** and promise playing time or hire your high school coaches just to get you - so why aren't y'all interested???
-The kid see two things....(1) where ya been for so long since you haven't aggressively been recruiting us and sweetening the deal by hiring our high school coaches and finding a way to "make us happy"...
and (2) our high school coaches tell us Bradley is NOT where we should go because you don't "play our game"...and don't kiss our guys' ***
Interesting GF Comment---
Interesting GF Comment---
Gents---In my experience, I don't believe that the town has much at all to do with a recruits decision. Too many successful BB programs are located in "Podunk" towns much worse in perception and reality than Peoria.
Recruits select programs based on the coaches personality, persuasiveness, and charisma and the "picture" he paints for their future in his program. Also, a winning program, facilities, closeness to home, playing time, and their overall comfort with what they see. The really good ones believe they are going to the NBA so they want to be in a college program that can help them get there. This was one of Versaces primary talking points.
Interesting GF Comment---
Gents---In my experience, I don't believe that the town has much at all to do with a recruits decision. Too many successful BB programs are located in "Podunk" towns much worse in perception and reality than Peoria.
Recruits select programs based on the coaches personality, persuasiveness, and charisma and the "picture" he paints for their future in his program. Also, a winning program, facilities, closeness to home, playing time, and their overall comfort with what they see. The really good ones believe they are going to the NBA so they want to be in a college program that can help them get there. This was one of Versaces primary talking points.
tornado
New member
I know - they have found ways to overcome their situation - we have not consistently been able to...
...save for the great recruiting early on in the Mo years and a short stretch that KW referred to in the 2000's.
Sergio: Illinois
Frankie: Illinois
Jamar: Illinois
Bobo: SIU-C
Cole; Illinois
Griffin: Illinois
Brooks: DePaul
Jackson: Marquette
Turner: Chicago St./Lewis
Little: UNI
Guyton: Indiana
Bielfeldt: Michigan
Roth: Indiana
Richardson: Illinois
Edgerson: Washington St.
DeAaron Williams: Wisconsin, then non qualifier at Bradley
Cellus: technically chose Iowa over Bradley at first and then transferred back, so his original choice was also a BCS school.
Thornton: Milwaukee, then Bradley and never really saw the floor
So by my count, there are 4 players out of the ones that you mentioned, plus a few more that I listed, that did not go to a BCS school. one of which even dropped down to D 2 Lewis, 1 chose a Horizon school which is a slight step below the Valley but came to Bradley and never saw the floor, and 2 play in the Valley, which would be equal IMO. I dont think we need to recruit Peoria just because its Peoria. You have to have the talent first, and like someone mentioned high school kids 98-99% of the time are going to choose the highest offer they receive, even if it means riding the bench instead of playing, because it is that notion that they are in a BCS league.
tornado
New member
several of those guys would have had great careers & helped Bradley a bunch - and were NOT all that far from selecting Bradley (Roth, Bielfeldt, Cole, Brooks, DJ)
Given some different circumstances and the right recruiting approach we had a shot at many of them -
I think we need to get (at least some of) the best kids in our own back yard.
Given some different circumstances and the right recruiting approach we had a shot at many of them -
I think we need to get (at least some of) the best kids in our own back yard.
Umm Bielfeldt wasnt even offered by Bradley....
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/126178/max-bielfeldt
Roth was between Bradley, Indiana, and SLU. Chose the highest level possible.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/37819/matt-roth
Cole: Not offered by Bradley, final 3 were Illinois, DePaul, and Wisconsin
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/43756/bill-cole
Richardson: Final choices were Illinois, Georgetown, Florida, Kentucky, and Indiana.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/42975/dj-richardson
Cant find anything on Brooks because it was so long ago, but none of those players you mentioned, with the exception of Roth were "close to choosing Bradley"
tornado
New member
disagree - many of them would have been had we positioned ourselves better - multiple reports said Bielfeldt definitely would have considered - perhaps even chosen Bradley.
Your explanation - that BU never offered - falls precisely within my main point - that with few exceptions (the ones JL landed) we have failed to lock up even the best talent in our own back yard.
I have some insight as to the further details as I have heard Coach Mo give some explanation - and it's largely due to petty personal issues between a few "players" in the Peoria area and a few people at Bradley.
You're welcome to your opinion - but can you think of any Peoria kid who came and played ball at Bradley other than those two - all the way back to Charles White?
Your explanation - that BU never offered - falls precisely within my main point - that with few exceptions (the ones JL landed) we have failed to lock up even the best talent in our own back yard.
I have some insight as to the further details as I have heard Coach Mo give some explanation - and it's largely due to petty personal issues between a few "players" in the Peoria area and a few people at Bradley.
You're welcome to your opinion - but can you think of any Peoria kid who came and played ball at Bradley other than those two - all the way back to Charles White?
DSE, Donovinne Stewart(who we found out was in over his head) and if you count walk ons Lavin, Alwan, Phillips. Eddie Mathews I would call a "Peoria kid" as he grew up in the metro Peoria area.
tornado
New member
just as I thought -- the only two examples other than walk ons were both not PEORIA KIDS - THEY WERE Washington & Limestone kids - and I had already pointed out above that we were frequently getting those kids anyway (Crouch, Pross, etc..) because the "players" in Peoria have little influence on kids from the schools outside of Peoria.