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Issue of race in the NBA

tornado

tornado

New member
writer touches on the hot subject of race with these words...

"The NBA is in trouble and I don't think there is much dispute about that.
Attendance was down last year and is slightly down so far this season.
Although basketball is supposed to be a team game, it has become more
one-on-one in the NBA than a boxing match. The style has changed and it is
a definite turnoff.

But a major problem with the NBA, one that is virtually never spoken about
honestly, is the issue of race. I have no hard-core evidence. But based on
my past experience in writing about sports, I know that whites ascribe very
different characteristics to black athletes than they do white ones. I also
make a habit of asking every white sports fan I know whether they watch
the NBA. In virtually every instance, they say they once watched the game
but no longer do. When I ask them if it has anything to do with the racial
composition, they do their best to look indignant. But my guess is they felt
very differently about the game when Larry Bird and John Stockton were
playing.

It boils down to this: Are whites losing interest in a game in which the
number of white American players not only continues to dwindle, but no
longer features a superstar?

I don't think talking about any of this makes me a racist. I believe it makes
me a realist. White fans want white superstars, or in the case of the NBA, at
least one white American superstar. Unless the ghosts of Bird and John
Havlicek and Jerry West return to the floor, that isn't going to happen. And
since it isn't going to happen, the NBA will continue to struggle with an
identity crisis that no one wants to publicly acknowledge."

Bissinger goes on to lazily assert that without marquee, American-born,
white NBA players, the league doesn't give white fans anyone to "relate" to,
thus alienating a large swath of the potential ticket buying public."

http://www.bvonmoney.com/2011/02/21/nba-rich-black-men-no-black-players-race-problem/

Interesting.....anyone with a comment??
I watch if my team (the Bulls) are doing well...I have no particular feelings at all about the race of whoever's playing...but guess what??
The "marquee teams in almost all the biggest markets have been struggling of late no matter what the racial composition of their team...
Knicks, Bulls, Pistons, Sixers, etc....all among the leagues biggest markets have struggled for several years.....
I think that has more to do with the drop-off in fans than race does....that and the hoggish one-on-one play...
 
tornado said:
writer touches on the hot subject of race with these words...

"... I don't think talking about any of this makes me a racist. I believe it makes
me a realist. "
...
Click to expand...

May not be a racist , but should at least know better than to mention anything racially sensitive. Juan Williams comes to mind. :roll:

As for my opinion on the NBA... I didn't like it in the Larry Bird days and I still don't like it. :twisted:
 
I'm enjoying the NBA again, and it has everything to do with Derek Rose, Joakim Noah, and Carlos Boozer. Guess I don't fit his profile.
 
Personally, I think it is more the players - white and black - being all 'tatted' up and 'thugged' out than what color the players are. The NBA's 'Golden Age' was the Jordan Era, which was preceeded by (and arguably created by) Bird-Magic. People weren't tuning in to see John Stockton, and Larry Bird was on the downswing when MJ started to win titles. I think it's more what all players look like nowadays as opposed to what race they are. The NBA had an image problem in the 70's too, and was able to fix it in the 80's and early 90's.

But I will say this - Regardless of how many 'NBA Cares' commercials they want to run, when the league is full of 'tatted' up players getting arrested on gun charges, domestic violence charges, etc. then you're going to have an image problem. A lot of workplaces require tattoos to be covered up, and hair to be professional-appearing. I know that professional sports isn't a normal workplace, but if the NBA was really concerned about the image, they could start enforcing some of these rules. It's not illegal to have proper workplace attire and appearance.

One could argue the NFL has the same problem, but the uniforms covering up faces and body art, and the marketing concentration on teams as opposed to individuals I think minimizes this.

As for me personally, I like the NBA a lot more when the Bulls are good. :D
 
I think the guy has a point to an extent. Most of us relate to people/things most like us. The NBA is not that.

The NBA has the greatest basketball players in the world. I've been to three games the last few weeks and am continually amazed at the ability level of NBA players. Remarkable.

I do not think NBA Attendance being down has anything to do with race though. MLB attendance was down last year as well.

BBrave--saying the league is "full of" tatted up thugs always getting arrested is way off base. I don't think that is a very high percentage of the players at all.
 
40 year old white guy and I still enjoy the NBA as much as I ever have.

I never have cared about tats, fros, black or white. I like watching the game of basketball.

I think the biggest problem with the NBA is to many teams. The league needs to eliminate the number of teams. Stop trying to float teams in Toronto, New Orleans, Charlotte etc.

Yes the tats, the me first attitude of many players and the money both being paid and that you need to pay is out of hand but come on who in their right mind is going to dish out $50.00 per person to watch Sacramento play Minnesota?

To many teams with to many questionable talented players in the league.
 
This issue was touched on by Colin Cowherd the other day as well.

The NFL is dominated by black athletes, and yet, is the most watched sport in the U.S. Baseball has become increasingly dominated by all sorts of minorities as well, many from the Dominican. Baseball is still watched by many.

Hockey is almost all white, and draws no one.

I do not think it's as simple as black and white. I think many, myself included, do not like the style of basketball in the NBA. The one-on-one is hard to watch for me. You also have an increasing number of foreign players that you may not have heard of in the past.

Additionally, the NBA, maybe more than any sport, is dominated by a select few teams. Mike and Mike mentioned today that very few NBA teams can actually compete for a title. That is not the way it is in the NFL. They seemingly always have new champs. Baseball even has different champs fairly regularly.

Maybe the NBA's "haves" are starting to turn off the game for the "have-not" cities and fans.

I do not believe you can make this a race-only issue.
 
BradleyJD said:
Hockey is almost all white, and draws no one.
...
Click to expand...

hockey draws very well in the prime markets....
I just heard them say the Blackhawks have drawn over 22,000 fans for every game the past two years.
and when some markets do the specialty games outdoors, they draw over 40K


But -- so far people have made all the same points I would have made....
......but there has been a distinct drop in not just attendance in several NBA markets, and also in people buying memorabilia, magazines, and tuning in on cable, etc...

It's a bit more than would be an expected drop off due to the economy, and there are those who say they CAN give a reason...

and even tho it's a hot-button and hints at race....many cite the tattoos, off-court thuggery and "entourage" stuff that goes on, selfish play, the me-first - I'm the star stuff like LeBron making his bolt to Miami the biggest thing in the universe, the baggy shorts and sloppy clothes off the court, etc...

BUT -- some people claim if you don't like this stuff then YOU ARE RACIST!
It's like schools that outlaw pants sagging below the crack, and gang symbols....that the "spokespeople" for racial issues (you know who I mean) claim are inherently tied to a person's race thus if you don't like that stuff you are picking on a single certain race and are racist!

I guess I am pretty tired of people claiming racism every time they don't make a million bucks or get away with anti-social behavior.
 
canadian said:
BBrave--saying the league is "full of" tatted up thugs always getting arrested is way off base. I don't think that is a very high percentage of the players at all.
Click to expand...

Reality-wise, yes, you are probably correct. Perception-wise, I don't think I am way off base at all.
 
tornado said:
hockey draws very well in the prime markets....
I just heard them say the Blackhawks have drawn over 22,000 fans for every game the past two years.
and when some markets do the specialty games outdoors, they draw over 40K


But -- so far people have made all the same points I would have made....
......but there has been a distinct drop in not just attendance in several NBA markets, and also in people buying memorabilia, magazines, and tuning in on cable, etc...

It's a bit more than would be an expected drop off due to the economy, and there are those who say they CAN give a reason...

and even tho it's a hot-button and hints at race....many cite the tattoos, off-court thuggery and "entourage" stuff that goes on, selfish play, the me-first - I'm the star stuff like LeBron making his bolt to Miami the biggest thing in the universe, the baggy shorts and sloppy clothes off the court, etc...

BUT -- some people claim if you don't like this stuff then YOU ARE RACIST!
It's like schools that outlaw pants sagging below the crack, and gang symbols....that the "spokespeople" for racial issues (you know who I mean) claim are inherently tied to a person's race thus if you don't like that stuff you are picking on a single certain race and are racist!

I guess I am pretty tired of people claiming racism every time they don't make a million bucks or get away with anti-social behavior.
Click to expand...

The NBA has always been a "star driven league" and the stars were always the center of attention. MJ, Dominque, Drexler, Barkley, Dr J, on and on and those guys were always out front as the star and were who wanted the spot light.

But every team had a guy or two or even 3 but very rarely did the non Boston, LA, Chicago compete for the NBA title. Even back to the late 70's San Antonio did not compete for the NBA title much back in the 70's 80's even during their great days of Gervin and Phegley :) But today they are the model franchise.

It is a waterdowned product with to many marginal players. There have always been "questionable guys" in the NBA. And there has always been guys making more money then the "average" guy in the NBA.

There are to many teams with to many sorry players and there are way to many other options for people to keep their attention. Hockey killed itself with the strike and to me again way to many teams. Baseball is just a bore with way to many teams with zero chance to win.

Football is once a week, and that tends to allow alot of attention because of the spotlight but realistically it allows for better betting because of the once a week game.
 
BradleyJD said:
I meant tv-wise. I know in team markets the teams may draw. However, when compared to other sports the TV numbers are pretty small.
Click to expand...

you are right about that -- but hockey fans are like NASCAR fans in the sense of being so intensely loyal, always buying and wearing team apparel, and making lots of noise
 
tornado said:
I guess I am pretty tired of people claiming racism every time they don't make a million bucks or get away with anti-social behavior.
Click to expand...

I don't see anyone doing this. Not sure what you are talking about.

Houstontxbrave hit it on the head--the NFL is wildly popular thanks to the once a week and the betting. Don't underestimate how important the betting is to the game. The NFL knows this as well.
 
canadian said:
I don't see anyone doing this. Not sure what you are talking about.

Houstontxbrave hit it on the head--the NFL is wildly popular thanks to the once a week and the betting. Don't underestimate how important the betting is to the game. The NFL knows this as well.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The NCAA Tournament isn't as popular as it is because of 'love for the game' of basketball. It's because nearly everyone in American - male and female - fills out an office pool bracket.
 
The NBA just doesn't do it for me either. I do not like the style of play...to much one-on-one....Kobe takes most of the shots, LaBron gets the ball and everyone gets out of the way....etc.....

I will watch the Bulls once in a great while but definitely not on a regular basis like I did when MJ was playing.

As far as attendance goes, I think it is getting like all the major sports. Who wants to spend $60.00 a ticket or more to sit in the rafters when you can see it better at home? Want a "good" seat for the game? Better cash that paycheck because it's gonna cost ya big time. You say you want to take your family to a game? Sure, go ahead....or you could take a nice three day vacation....
 
It seems that white college stars just aren't translating to today's game.

Who is the best American white player? Kevin Love?

Look no further than the Reddick vs. Morrison.
Neither is a great player in the NBA enough they took the college basketball world by storm.

Who will be the next great white player?

Harangody?

Ferdette?

The cupboard seems pretty bare.
 
canadian said:
I do not think NBA Attendance being down has anything to do with race though. MLB attendance was down last year as well.
Click to expand...

I agree. If race was the only issue then why is interest in baseball taking such a hit? Yes, it is more diversified now in terms of Latin and Asian players, in contrast to what it was in the 60s and 70s. However, this is balanced out a bit by the decline in the percentage of African Americans playing MLB (down from around 25% in the 70s to around 10% now).

Race is also less of an issue with Generations X and Y in contast to other generations. So while Race could be a factor, it's hardly the only factor involved here.

BBrave--saying the league is "full of" tatted up thugs always getting arrested is way off base. I don't think that is a very high percentage of the players at all.
Click to expand...

Perception can cloud reality. Before Larry Bird and Magic entered the league, the NBA was largely unpopular due to not only the lack of white players, but also the rampant drug use. Interest was so low that the NBA finals were televised on tape delay.

David Stern did the right thing by having marketing more player focused as opposed to team focused. A game marketed as Dr. J vs. Kareem was far more interesting than "Sixers vs. Lakers".

Herein lies the current problem with the NBA, which is the lack of marketable players who can generate interest among a very broad group of people. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan were all players who appealed to a wide range of individuals. The same can not be said for Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Kobe Bryant.
 
tornado said:
writer touches on the hot subject of race with these words...

"The NBA is in trouble and I don't think there is much dispute about that.
Attendance was down last year and is slightly down so far this season.
Although basketball is supposed to be a team game, it has become more
one-on-one in the NBA than a boxing match. The style has changed and it is
a definite turnoff.

But a major problem with the NBA, one that is virtually never spoken about
honestly, is the issue of race. I have no hard-core evidence. But based on
my past experience in writing about sports, I know that whites ascribe very
different characteristics to black athletes than they do white ones. I also
make a habit of asking every white sports fan I know whether they watch
the NBA. In virtually every instance, they say they once watched the game
but no longer do. When I ask them if it has anything to do with the racial
composition, they do their best to look indignant. But my guess is they felt
very differently about the game when Larry Bird and John Stockton were
playing.

It boils down to this: Are whites losing interest in a game in which the
number of white American players not only continues to dwindle, but no
longer features a superstar?

I don't think talking about any of this makes me a racist. I believe it makes
me a realist. White fans want white superstars, or in the case of the NBA, at
least one white American superstar. Unless the ghosts of Bird and John
Havlicek and Jerry West return to the floor, that isn't going to happen. And
since it isn't going to happen, the NBA will continue to struggle with an
identity crisis that no one wants to publicly acknowledge."

Bissinger goes on to lazily assert that without marquee, American-born,
white NBA players, the league doesn't give white fans anyone to "relate" to,
thus alienating a large swath of the potential ticket buying public."

http://www.bvonmoney.com/2011/02/21/nba-rich-black-men-no-black-players-race-problem/

Interesting.....anyone with a comment??
I watch if my team (the Bulls) are doing well...I have no particular feelings at all about the race of whoever's playing...but guess what??
The "marquee teams in almost all the biggest markets have been struggling of late no matter what the racial composition of their team...
Knicks, Bulls, Pistons, Sixers, etc....all among the leagues biggest markets have struggled for several years.....
I think that has more to do with the drop-off in fans than race does....that and the hoggish one-on-one play...
Click to expand...


Uh, actually TV ratings are up 30% this season. Attendance is down, but attendance does NOT necessarily reflect fan interest. It's EXPENSIVE to go to an NBA game. The facts pretty much invalidate the whole race argument. This article looks like a pretty feeble attempt to interject a racial theory where one doesn't exist.

I would also refute his "style" argument. The game is less thuggish than it was in the 80s when a lot more overtly physical play was allowed. I have re-discovered the NBA in the last few years and if you watch the games you realize a lot of that talk is simply inaccurate. Sure, there are a lot of one-on-one iso plays, but that's not all, just watch this Bulls team, they play good solid defense every game and run team-oriented sets.

I can appreciate the NBA, NCAA, and even Euroleauge. Euro ball is fun to watch, even with less talent than the NBA, it relies a lot more on passing and outside shooting than dribble drive penetration. Still, you can't dispute that the best ball is played in the NBA both in terms of pure athleticism and basketball talent.
 
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