Do you honestly believe that a coach would go into his huddle and say "here's what we're going to do. We're going to let player A go to the basket and when he goes up for a shot I want you to foul him so hard that we will injure him and he'll be unable to shoot free throws. That way we can pick player B to shoot his free throws, and he's not as good."
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New Foul Rule
- Thread starter wily coyote
- Start date
Do you honestly believe that a coach would go into his huddle and say "here's what we're going to do. We're going to let player A go to the basket and when he goes up for a shot I want you to foul him so hard that we will injure him and he'll be unable to shoot free throws. That way we can pick player B to shoot his free throws, and he's not as good."
tornado
New member
No..but there are coaches who'll say...
Joey - I want you to go in there and neutralize the guy...hard foul...I mean really hard and make sure he isn't able to take the FT's.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1999665
read the ESPN account of that incident......sounds like Cheney was virtually made for this new rule...
Joey - I want you to go in there and neutralize the guy...hard foul...I mean really hard and make sure he isn't able to take the FT's.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1999665
read the ESPN account of that incident......sounds like Cheney was virtually made for this new rule...
Would much rather see someone swinging the bat than a pitcher taking strike 3 or bunting with 2 strikes. Very few Zambranos around.
IMO thats like having a guy who gets to shoot free throw for Shaq every time he's fouled. Make players PLAY the game, if there is a weakness, the player should either fix it, or the team works around it. Not bringing in some terrible fielder who only wants to work on hitting. The AL is more popular IMO because newcomers to baseball don't want to learn the intricacies of the double-switch and small ball, they want to see Johnny McSteroids slam the cover off a ball. Which if thats what the sport wants, fine, I'm only one fan. For me though, it's always gonna be the NL, where players are expected to be complete players and not just be given passes for their weaknesses, and if that changes, so will my viewing habits, if it's better for them to change, then my guess is that they will do so...
How is a pitcher taking strike right down the middle just because he's a pitcher, PLAYING the game?
Chico we see eye to eye on this one! Also, pitching around your number 8 hitter to get to the pitcher! That really helps the game? There are two ways to look at this obviously but I like the DH and believe it makes for a much better, entertaining game.
How is Shaq shooting a FT he know he's more than likely going to miss any different. Shaq shoots about .350 from the FT line. The greats shoot .950. A conservative average for a pitcher is .150. Albert Pujols, the greatest player in baseball in a long long while, hits .330. The comparative difference is less in baseball...
Pujols, Mauer, Ramirez(Hankley), often take pitches down the middle. Look at averages. And with pitchers, the averages can be misleading, often a pitcher will swing to allow a hit and run, or bunt a batter over and it's not considered a sacrifice. The level of gaming that not having a DH introduces into baseball is outstanding, many casual Baseball fans don't notice it. But I can take the Yankees, pencil in the same 9 every night and say 'Have at it boys...' It takes a lot more skill to do what Tony LaRussa, Charlie Manuel, and even Joe Torre do on a nightly basis, scrutinizing matchups, having to worry about when to pull a pitcher based on who's coming up in the lineup, who to pinch hit, when to make defensive subs, none of which regularly occur in an AL.
We could get into a very lengthy debate on the difference between NL vs. AL and the long line of issues the DH causes baseball - suffice it to say, many of us like the intellectual side of baseball that no DH requires.
The DH is an example of everything wrong in America. Or the world. Or the UNIVERSE! Seriously, can't imagine how anyone who likes baseball could actually prefer the DH. Pitchers are on the field, they should have to hit. Having a DH not only absolves the pitcher from having to hit (why not have a pinch fielder for the pitcher too... Or perhaps free substitution so no one ever has to do anything they're not good at), but it completely ruins any strategy required in baseball. You change pitchers when you feel like it, you pinch hit when you feel like it. Double-switches become extinct. Ich.
LoneStar_Brave
New member
I love how this morphed into a conversation about baseball. Lets see if I can morph it further.
The DH protects the pitchers from any accountability. The pitchers would less likely purposely plunk a guy if he has to stand in there himself. Granted in baseball, an eye for an eye typically means "you hit our best hitter, we'll hit yours"; however, the fear factor woud still exist rather than sending Big Papi into the box for you.
The NHL does it right by allowing fighting. That actually controls the violence of the game. If you make a violent run at the opposing team's best player, you'd better be able to handle your self with your fists when their tough guy comes looking for you.... scuffle it up, sit 5 minutes in the box. Without fighting, there would be a lot more weasles out there with chippy stick play and cheap shots and thus more injuries. Stuff like that may escape the ref's, but it wouldn't escape the eyes of the enforcers. We all slow down a little when we see the police cars, don't we
The DH protects the pitchers from any accountability. The pitchers would less likely purposely plunk a guy if he has to stand in there himself. Granted in baseball, an eye for an eye typically means "you hit our best hitter, we'll hit yours"; however, the fear factor woud still exist rather than sending Big Papi into the box for you.
The NHL does it right by allowing fighting. That actually controls the violence of the game. If you make a violent run at the opposing team's best player, you'd better be able to handle your self with your fists when their tough guy comes looking for you.... scuffle it up, sit 5 minutes in the box. Without fighting, there would be a lot more weasles out there with chippy stick play and cheap shots and thus more injuries. Stuff like that may escape the ref's, but it wouldn't escape the eyes of the enforcers. We all slow down a little when we see the police cars, don't we
The thing is Shaq, who ruined the Suns for a season and a half, doesn't miss on purpose just because he's a center. At least he shoots the ball. Or does Albert P and the others bunt with 2 strikes. I believe Joe Torre, Tony La Russsa and now Spalding's own, Joe Girardi, have been successful managers in both leagues.
If you think pitchers miss on purpose, I can't really continue a logical discussion here... That just doesn't even make sense...
I think you know my point. You can't miss if you don't swing. Anyone who watches baseball will see pitchers take strikes or bunt with 2 strikes. That's what just doesn't even make sense.
MacabreMob
New member
DRU, I thought that WAS the new rule. Maybe I have missed the meaning in the rule or in your comment. :-D
The main problem I have with this new rule is that it rewards the team that just committed the foul. No rule should ever give the advantage to the team commiting a violation. Every team has weaker free throw shooters, and the other coach is always going to know who they are. So after committing a violent foul that could lead to serious injury, this rule rewards that coach of that team with the honor of selecting the player to shoot the FTs. Though I don't expect it to happen often, it could lead to a team trying to "take out" an opposing player, just because there might be another one on the floor who is a poor FTer. It's ridiculous, and I expect it to be reversed eventually.
wily coyote
Active member
DC I totally agree with you. No team should be rewarded for a rules infraction and thats exactly whats happening with this rule. I also think its embarassing to the kid who gets picked. Great job AT by splitting a pair. Some people would have missed both. This is a one year rule. Bank on it.
Along those lines, it also probably eliminates the bad free throw shooters from faking injuries as well. No longer can a bad free throw shooter be replaced by his own coach with a great free throw shooter off the bench.
I understand that this is the intent of the rule. But I still don't like any rule that rewards the team that is guilty of a violation.
First- I have watched thousands of games, and I have never seen a game where I thought a kid was faking an injury to avoid shooting free throws. I am not saying it never happens, but it has to be extremely rare. Usually, every kid, no matter how bad a free throw shooter he is, wants a chance to sink a key FT at the end of a game.
I believe the problem of faking an injury, though rare, could be dealt with by officials using some common sense and judgement.
First- I have watched thousands of games, and I have never seen a game where I thought a kid was faking an injury to avoid shooting free throws. I am not saying it never happens, but it has to be extremely rare. Usually, every kid, no matter how bad a free throw shooter he is, wants a chance to sink a key FT at the end of a game.
I believe the problem of faking an injury, though rare, could be dealt with by officials using some common sense and judgement.