Perhaps these protesters are not the idealistic protesters that are needed but something has to be done to change our present day economic trajectory. It is a fact that the large international corporations have more say in our legislative process. Our health-care system will not be fixed by either party because they are both being funded by those special interest. The hard working middle class American family is incapable of saving more and pay a greater amount of their income to taxes then ever before. I believe the Tea Party messed up by allowing the radical right a piece of their platform thus diluting their message. When has the establishment ever created changes that may impinge on their power. Our Civil Rights would not have happened or at least not as quick without the focus that was brought out by Martin Luther King and his non-violence social movement. India would still be ruled by Britain without Gandhi and his protest. Unless you believe we are on the right path with the present day political structure we need a leader or leaders to step up. I may not agree with the methodology of the Wall Street protesters but I'm not going to put them down because at least they are trying to make changes and are not just sitting on a couch being apathetic. On those Libyan protesters that is a different game. As you can tell I'm all about non-violence forms of protest. History proves in a civilized society non violent protest can have deep meaningful impact for the good of human development.
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OT - is anyone here a "protester"?
- Thread starter tornado
- Start date
Perhaps these protesters are not the idealistic protesters that are needed but something has to be done to change our present day economic trajectory. It is a fact that the large international corporations have more say in our legislative process. Our health-care system will not be fixed by either party because they are both being funded by those special interest. The hard working middle class American family is incapable of saving more and pay a greater amount of their income to taxes then ever before. I believe the Tea Party messed up by allowing the radical right a piece of their platform thus diluting their message. When has the establishment ever created changes that may impinge on their power. Our Civil Rights would not have happened or at least not as quick without the focus that was brought out by Martin Luther King and his non-violence social movement. India would still be ruled by Britain without Gandhi and his protest. Unless you believe we are on the right path with the present day political structure we need a leader or leaders to step up. I may not agree with the methodology of the Wall Street protesters but I'm not going to put them down because at least they are trying to make changes and are not just sitting on a couch being apathetic. On those Libyan protesters that is a different game. As you can tell I'm all about non-violence forms of protest. History proves in a civilized society non violent protest can have deep meaningful impact for the good of human development.
tornado
New member
perhaps the protesters should turn their attention away from the markets, banks, and businesses...and start protesting the real reasons behind our terrible economy....
...government involvement, meddling, regulations, and burdensome taxes and pending healthcare requirements & costs...
despite the spin the news day after day is horrible and today it is as well...
retail and factory orders (worst drop in 3 years!) are DOWN again and jobless claims rose AGAIN! - all at a time that year-end and holiday hiring and orders ought to be UP, UP, UP!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ployment-benefits-claims/1612609/?sf6425199=1
...government involvement, meddling, regulations, and burdensome taxes and pending healthcare requirements & costs...
despite the spin the news day after day is horrible and today it is as well...
retail and factory orders (worst drop in 3 years!) are DOWN again and jobless claims rose AGAIN! - all at a time that year-end and holiday hiring and orders ought to be UP, UP, UP!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ployment-benefits-claims/1612609/?sf6425199=1
I almost agree with you here T ;-) Smaller government is ideal and we should strive to that end but we also need to do something about the unusual influence that certain interests have in this country. The tax system is working just well for the large corporations and the 1%. They are the ones making the laws. The average American is left holding the bag while government and regulatory compliance keeps the SMB businesses down. One thing I like about what Romney had to say last night (btw he won that debate going away) was the unfair practice of the current Administration influencing the market unfairly. The other was that they caved into those Banks that are to large to fail over the small regional banks, which are more likely to help the community businesses.
tornado
New member
I wonder if Time Magazine will celebrate these protesters? I'll bet not.
http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/11/5016553/dozens-of-protesters-ride-in-off.html
http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/11/5016553/dozens-of-protesters-ride-in-off.html
It is funny that not one single public official in any city or in the federal government even suggested that the thousands of squatters who were protesting in the "Occupy" movement in many cities should be removed from the public land they were destroying. Those protesters were allowed to camp out for as long as they wanted, and damage or destroy public and private property at will.
But if a rancher or a few ATV users move onto federal land that is not even being used by anyone, then the feds send hundreds of US Marshals armed with high powered automatic weapons, tasers, and armed vehicles to arrest or force them out. It certainly shows the priorities of this government.
Maybe they should have the first lady hold up another hashtag sign to prove they really care?
But if a rancher or a few ATV users move onto federal land that is not even being used by anyone, then the feds send hundreds of US Marshals armed with high powered automatic weapons, tasers, and armed vehicles to arrest or force them out. It certainly shows the priorities of this government.
Maybe they should have the first lady hold up another hashtag sign to prove they really care?
I probably shouldn't wade in here, as I'm sure it won't bode well... But I think your ranchers example is a horrible one. The same people that want welfare practically abolished want ranchers to use an incredibly valuable commodity of the government without paying, as long as that person already has hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cattle, but that's not freeloading... Unregulated ATV and grazing can have severe consequences. The government has certain rights to maintain and govern tracts of land. Asking to individuals to respect certain restrictions, or expecting payment for the use of the land that is universally considered below market-value payment isn't unreasonable.
I also find it interesting your ire in regards to protesters doesn't include Tea Party protesters... I'm sure that's just coincidence though :roll: In terms of why the government isn't doing anything, I think the answers can be found here.
I'm a person who desperately wants a sensible and reasonable middle to re-emerge in politics, but that seems like a more and more implausible situation. Rhetoric regurgitated from like likes of Fox News, and certain shows on MSNBC as fact without consideration as to the owners agendas are a huge part of the issue.
LongTimeFan
Active member
There never will be a middle ground. It does remind me of another situation.
However, I believe I have heard the rancher has offered to pay the state but does not recognize the federal authorities as rightful owners of the land in question. I will admit that I have not followed this situation closely and could be wrong.
I do have an opinion on protesters that camp out and destroy the environmental surroundings. In our area one group, even though peaceful, destroyed enough that it costs the taxpayers well over $20,000 to restore the area.
However, I believe I have heard the rancher has offered to pay the state but does not recognize the federal authorities as rightful owners of the land in question. I will admit that I have not followed this situation closely and could be wrong.
I do have an opinion on protesters that camp out and destroy the environmental surroundings. In our area one group, even though peaceful, destroyed enough that it costs the taxpayers well over $20,000 to restore the area.
tornado
New member
I don't defend the ranchers if they break laws....nor the squatters and other malcontents....but this whining and protesting gets a little silly..
Maybe if we were in an oppressive country with evil rulers and despots, where our lives were constantly in danger, where people are indiscriminately killed, where unfair punishment exists for minor crimes, or where people are kidnapped and the government does nothing about it.
But we live in the greatest and freest nation the world has ever known.
People all over the world are risking their lives to come live here yet we have people who gripe endlessly about living here.
I don't like everything about this nation, the leaders, taxes, etc...but I sure am not planning on leaving any time soon.
if you want a laugh check this out...
college is available to everyone, scholarships are available, but there will still be some costs...
BUT - some protesters demand FREE college education for everyone -- FREE...
http://occupywallstreet.net/story/higher-education-can-be-free-statement-strike-debt
I saw one of these guys interviewed and he had absolutely zero concept that someone has to build the buildings, hire the professors, pay the costs - that it cannot possibly be free...someone would have to pay for it..
but the guy absolutely did not grasp that concept - he seemed to just assume the government has pockets with billions of dollars and he deserved some for his college education.
Maybe if we were in an oppressive country with evil rulers and despots, where our lives were constantly in danger, where people are indiscriminately killed, where unfair punishment exists for minor crimes, or where people are kidnapped and the government does nothing about it.
But we live in the greatest and freest nation the world has ever known.
People all over the world are risking their lives to come live here yet we have people who gripe endlessly about living here.
I don't like everything about this nation, the leaders, taxes, etc...but I sure am not planning on leaving any time soon.
if you want a laugh check this out...
college is available to everyone, scholarships are available, but there will still be some costs...
BUT - some protesters demand FREE college education for everyone -- FREE...
http://occupywallstreet.net/story/higher-education-can-be-free-statement-strike-debt
I saw one of these guys interviewed and he had absolutely zero concept that someone has to build the buildings, hire the professors, pay the costs - that it cannot possibly be free...someone would have to pay for it..
but the guy absolutely did not grasp that concept - he seemed to just assume the government has pockets with billions of dollars and he deserved some for his college education.
It's not coincidental. It's because I don't think you can equate the violent Occupy demonstrations filled with assaults and property damage, with peaceful, orderly, lawful rallies by other organizations.
I can't find a single instance or report where Tea Party protesters were breaking the law, or causing damage to private or public property. They appear to be the epitome of what the 1st amendment was written for.
In fact, after the Tea Party rallies, people actually cleaned up the areas and left them cleaner than they were before the rallies-
http://guardianlv.com/2013/10/tea-party-cleans-up-national-mall-needs-to-clean-out-congress/
And in fact, Tea Partiers even moved in after several left wingers' protests and cleaned up the massive messes left by them, too-
http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/...rs-clean-mess-left-union-protesters-wisconsin
The obvious reason I am harping on the Occupy movement is because police and government officials did virtually nothing to intervene even though there were well documented rapes and assaults-
http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014
Here is just one list of some of the documented arsons, assaults, drug violations and dealing, fraud, thefts, vandalism, deaths, rapes, sexual assaults, and even murder that were associated with Occupy protests!-
http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-document-record-of.html
They cost cities millions-
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/occupy-wall-street-protests-cost-cities-millions/story?id=14975940
There were millions of dollars in damages in several cities and lots of harm inflicted on innocent citizens (taxpayers like us had to pay the bills)-
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/23/la-faces-millions-in-costs-for-occupy-damage/
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...sesses-city-hall-damage-after-occupy-break-in
http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/08/the-occupy-movements-penchant-for-friend
Plus there were even cases that involved Occupy protesters intending to commit domestic terrorism and kill numerous innocent people-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hists-arrested-plotting-blow-Ohio-bridge.html
If you can find any remotely similar damage, destruction, mayhem, or deaths that were associated with Tea Party rallies or the cattle ranchers, let me see it.
ChewaBrave
New member
The vast majority of conservative groups and people are good and decent people attempting to enact changes they feel passionate about.
The vast majority of progressive groups and people are good and decent people attempting to enact change they feel passionate about.
Neither group is a monolith but neither group should be judged by minorities of anarchists or racists or vandals or separatists. This oversimplification of their causes drowns out the real and valid points that should be addressed.
The vast majority of progressive groups and people are good and decent people attempting to enact change they feel passionate about.
Neither group is a monolith but neither group should be judged by minorities of anarchists or racists or vandals or separatists. This oversimplification of their causes drowns out the real and valid points that should be addressed.
tornado
New member
Not all protesters are given equal credibility
Those who protest against police = heroes and get the backing of the President & all his top officials
Those who protest to allow tens of thousands of illegal immigrants into our system to support = one of the Prez' favorite causes
if labor unions protest the Prez shows up to get votes.
Those who protested against the income and wealth inequalities (Occupy movement) were allowed endless freedoms to squat on private & public property and destroy whatever they wanted and still got the backing of many of the Washington top dogs.
Those who protest against abortion and the deaths of thousands of babies = tough luck, the Prez doesn't giva hoot
Those who protest against police = heroes and get the backing of the President & all his top officials
Those who protest to allow tens of thousands of illegal immigrants into our system to support = one of the Prez' favorite causes
if labor unions protest the Prez shows up to get votes.
Those who protested against the income and wealth inequalities (Occupy movement) were allowed endless freedoms to squat on private & public property and destroy whatever they wanted and still got the backing of many of the Washington top dogs.
Those who protest against abortion and the deaths of thousands of babies = tough luck, the Prez doesn't giva hoot
tornado
New member
Time is reportedly set to name PROTESTERS (Ferguson, New York, etc..) as the Person of the Year again for the 2nd time in a 3 year span..
we should know within a week or so...
I think it should be Assad or Putin - they've done the most to send the world down the drain
You forgot somebody.
tornado
New member
he already won it once but then so did "You" and Putin..
btw as I look over the past winners of the Time Person of the Year - the silliest selections and the ones they obviously were trying to be cutesy about are...
Hitler in 1938 (any choice of a man who was and would soon be the most murderous & hateful person in existence only served to legitimize him as a world leader)
then 1966 The Inheritor, 1969 The Middle Americans (Silent Majority), 1975 "American women", 1982 The Computer, 1988 The Endangered Earth (and yet here we are 25 years later), 1991 Ted Turner (dontcha think this was a little self serving since Time & Turner media were in bed with each other and shortly after Time paid Turner millions for his network?), 2006 "You", and 2011 The Protester..
btw as I look over the past winners of the Time Person of the Year - the silliest selections and the ones they obviously were trying to be cutesy about are...
Hitler in 1938 (any choice of a man who was and would soon be the most murderous & hateful person in existence only served to legitimize him as a world leader)
then 1966 The Inheritor, 1969 The Middle Americans (Silent Majority), 1975 "American women", 1982 The Computer, 1988 The Endangered Earth (and yet here we are 25 years later), 1991 Ted Turner (dontcha think this was a little self serving since Time & Turner media were in bed with each other and shortly after Time paid Turner millions for his network?), 2006 "You", and 2011 The Protester..