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point guard

Yeah not only what the others have said, Eddren was taking shots on Friday, they just didn't go in. Last year he didn't shoot much, this year, if he can convert 30% from three he'll be an excellent all around player for us.
 
I like Eddren and I think he's gonna be a fine PG for us...

in the first game of his soph year, he got us started and scored the first points, he had 6 pts, 4 rebs, and only one TO.

Here are some comparative stats for freshman seasons...EM compares quite favorably--
McCain - 6 pts, 3 rebs, 3 asst
Ruffin -- 6 pts, 3 rebs, 4.7 asst
Dotzler-- 6 pts, 2 rebs, 4 asst
Mullins --5.5 pts, 2 rebs, 3 asst
Kwadzo- 2.6 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
Cello --- 5 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Gillingham-6 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Avery Sheets (Butler kid who killed us)- 5 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
D. McCamey- 8 ppg, 3 rpg, 3 asst
Evan Turner-8 ppg, 4 rpg, 2.6 asst
 
In my opinion, Eddren is more of a complete player, his points, rebounds and assists are often in line with each other, where as SM generally has more points than assists. I think that's what Les sees in Eddren, he gets the team involved more instead of worrying about shooting the ball.

Jason
 
jasonpeoria911 said:
In my opinion, Eddren is more of a complete player, his points, rebounds and assists are often in line with each other, where as SM generally has more points than assists. I think that's what Les sees in Eddren, he gets the team involved more instead of worrying about shooting the ball.

Jason
Click to expand...
odd because I think EM had a higher high school ppg # than SM..

although part of SM's shooting #'s have been forced due to a team need when AW got injured last year.
 
Yes, EM did have a higher High School PPG but that seems to have changed in college. I think EM was playing against players a lot slower in high school but is going up against a lot faster players now and in turn is having to rely on his jump shot more instead of easy layups.

Jason



ph said:
odd because I think EM had a higher high school ppg # than SM..

although part of SM's shooting #'s have been forced due to a team need when AW got injured last year.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not sure if anyone on here is saying EM isn't good. He is good and will be even better in the future for us. But the simple fact is we don't need him on the court at the same time as SM. No one is throwing anyone under the bus.
 
tornado said:
I like Eddren and I think he's gonna be a fine PG for us...

in the first game of his soph year, he got us started and scored the first points, he had 6 pts, 4 rebs, and only one TO.

Here are some comparative stats for freshman seasons...EM compares quite favorably--
McCain - 6 pts, 3 rebs, 3 asst
Ruffin -- 6 pts, 3 rebs, 4.7 asst
Dotzler-- 6 pts, 2 rebs, 4 asst
Mullins --5.5 pts, 2 rebs, 3 asst
Kwadzo- 2.6 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
Cello --- 5 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Gillingham-6 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Avery Sheets (Butler kid who killed us)- 5 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
D. McCamey- 8 ppg, 3 rpg, 3 asst
Evan Turner-8 ppg, 4 rpg, 2.6 asst
Click to expand...

Ok, you can't only round up for McCain and down for the others... And lets throw in FG% just for fun

McCain 5.6 ppg, 2.6 r, 3.1 a, .294 fg%, 25.0 min
Ruffin 6.3 ppg, 3.0 r, 4.7 a, .374 fg%, 24.1 min
Turner 8.5 ppg, 4.4 r, 2.6 a, .470 fg%, 27.1
.
.
Maniscalco 7.7 ppg, 1.7 r, 3.0 a, .417 fg%, 27.1min

And I didn't even check the others to see if you manipulated those stats. Stop rounding up subjectively, and include a little bit more info, and the story starts to change...

I like EM, I really do, but the comments saying he's better than SM just can't be backed up. AND if we want to go play a bigger lineup, the best way to do that is to not start EM. He did great when called upon last year, but the situation has changed and it's time to readjust our philosophy.



SELF-EDIT: Upon a booth review I lied originally EM FG% was .412...
 
I'd like to see him come off the bench.....a few questions though. Is SM a pg or a shooting guard? Would you then play AW at the 2?

I think EM is our "true" pg and JL wants to keep grooming him for that spot. But IF this is what JL is thinking couldn't we still groom him while in the backup role?

I still say SM, AW, CR,TB and WE....
EM, DD, MK, SS/AT...and if S and AT are playing well at the 5 you can rotate WE at both 4 and 5 spots as needed.
 
dogsrus said:
I'd like to see him come off the bench.....a few questions though. Is SM a pg or a shooting guard? Would you then play AW at the 2?

I think EM is our "true" pg and JL wants to keep grooming him for that spot. But IF this is what JL is thinking couldn't we still groom him while in the backup role?

I still say SM, AW, CR,TB and WE....
EM, DD, MK, SS/AT...and if S and AT are playing well at the 5 you can rotate WE at both 4 and 5 spots as needed.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything here, but I see SM as a PG, personally, he has a shot, but a PG with a good shot opens up the floor quite a bit. And I don't think there's any doubt SM would be 1, and AW would be a 2 in the 'BCS" leagues, but in the valley we have a much harder time recruiting bigs, so positions often get adjusted...
 
I say there is no reason to groom someone if it is a detriment to the team. Meaning he starts over SM. He would still get plenty of minutes behind SM. Do I think SM is a pg or a sg....well whatever he is he's good enough at pg for me and he's got offensive threat which is what we need in every single position if we want to be good. EM can average 6 ppg that's fine as long as he's getting many many assists and he's only taking 2 to 5 shots to get those 6. However I feel like he's taking a lot of shots to get his points and it's not good. I guess someone who is good with stats could look that up and probably prove me wrong but that's just the vibe I get and obviously other teams do as well since P'allen said to not guard EM last season during a game....not good.

One thing I did notice about the BYU game though. A few of their guards were really good at just doing little tiny but quick fakes to throw our defenders off. They'd do a little juke and slow down, then another, and then another and use it to go around them and pass it off. When I noticed that I started paying attention to EM and SM while playing pg and they did nothing of the sort. They would run it down there and run around the arc and pass it around without even trying to throw off their defender. I think the first person that develops that ability to fake their defender and make some room (possibly draw in another defender) and dish it out will be the consistent starting pg. If that turns out to be EM and he still lacks a scoring ability then I'd be fine with that. At pg we need either an offensive threat or someone that is really really good at opening things up and getting assists.
 
Unless he gets hurt EM will be our starter at the point. He hasn't shot it well but he's a good defender, rebounds well, and normally has a good assist to tournover ratio. I think the bigger question to ask would be who finishes the game as our PG. Does JL trust him to make FT's at the end of games? I do think there's too much made of who starts. It's more important who finishes.
 
Bradleyguy10 said:
I'm not sure if anyone on here is saying EM isn't good. He is good and will be even better in the future for us. But the simple fact is we don't need him on the court at the same time as SM. No one is throwing anyone under the bus.
Click to expand...

I doubt if we would have seen both EM and SM start against BYU if Brown had not been suspended. I suspect that once he is back he will start and either SM or EM will come off the bench. I have always felt SM would be a more effective spark off the bench with EM starting.

I DO NOT think EM and SM perform as well when they are on the court at the same time for an extended period. I also do not think it is BU's best interest to start such a small lineup.
 
I don't think anyone is ripping EM, just their opinion that SM start at PG and EM back him up. There are plenty of minutes available for both and it keeps both fresh and playing one position. Filling out the line up with AW, CR, TB, and WE, or, AW, TB, WE and AT would give BU a big and then bigger options.
A possible question with this approach is if AW is a good enough ball handler to be a the SG..

The 3 or 4 guard "desperation" line up should be reserved for emergency situations when BU needs to trap/ball hawk and try to shoot the lights out from the 3 to try and catch up when well behind......
 
AZ BU Fan said:
I don't think anyone is ripping EM, just their opinion that SM start at PG and EM back him up. There are plenty of minutes available for both and it keeps both fresh and playing one position. Filling out the line up with AW, CR, TB, and WE, or, AW, TB, WE and AT would give BU a big and then bigger options.
A possible question with this approach is if AW is a good enough ball handler to be a the SG..

The 3 or 4 guard "desperation" line up should be reserved for emergency situations when BU needs to trap/ball hawk and try to shoot the lights out from the 3 to try and catch up when well behind......
Click to expand...

I'm agreeing with AZ? Uh-oh this could be trouble...
 
I am all for SM playing point, but I will stop well short of saying I am on anything that resembles a SM bandwagon. For me to fully support SM, he needs to calm down. He forces ALOT of shots, and it especially annoys me when we run a great offensive possession, swing the ball around well and instead of making that one extra pass, SM jacks up an ill advised 3. I would agree with anyone that says he is a clutch player, but he needs to let the game come to him.

I think if he calms down, his numbers will improve because his numbers tonight...

3-11 from the field with 4 assist to 3 turnovers with 13pts, with that number being slightly inflated by a few ft's and an admittedly clutch 3 in the final minutes.

...are not overly impressive.

If he plays all game with the same swagger he played with in the last 4 minutes, he will do quite well.
 
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