DSE should clearly get max. minutes and probably should start. He is strong, tough, good defense, and he can add drive and/or kick to an offense that has been almost devoid of this. A strong drive & kick threat will change the way people defense us. I have always liked EM but emotion aside, JL must play the people that help us the most. At this point and based on all of last year and this year thus far, DSE is clearly better than EM. With EM in the lineup, we are virtually 4 on 5 offensively. EM can be a very good bench player where ball handling is needed. With a lineup that includes DSE and TB, our toughness factor goes up BIG TIME and we need this badly. Rebounding and illegal screens should get handled by our coaches so I won't worry too much about this YET.
-
Welcome to BradleyFans.com! Visitors are welcome, but we encourage you to sign up and register as a member. It's free and takes only a few seconds. Just click on the link to Register at the top right of the page, and follow instructions. If you have any problems or questions, click on the link at the bottom right of the page to Contact Us.
Post ISU game comments
- Thread starter wizard1
- Start date
DSE will get more time, and I expect Milos will also. The other guards have to step it up. Chris has been reluctant to shoot, but some of that is because of the hand that was "sprained" in the Lewis game. He will increase his offensive game in the upcoming games.
I do not see a reversal of either of the two freshmen who decided to redshirt.
I do not see a reversal of either of the two freshmen who decided to redshirt.
chitown fanatic
New member
Ok, I was just as impressed with DSE as anyone last night, but let's face it, we were playing a middle of the pack big sky team who had no business even being close and DSE was one of the few guys who showed up to play. We did the same thing we've done time and again under LEs, play down or up to the level of our competition. With that said, let's see how good he is against better teams or even the next two opponents after they've seen film. I'm not saying he won't be good, but I'm not ready to annoint him a starter or 25+ minute guy yet
SaintLouBrave22
New member
So...if you're saying what you're saying, then maybe you can give your thoughts on Eddren since ya know, we did play a middle of the pack team and all...
Has he done enough to still deserve a starting spot?
chitown fanatic
New member
Eddren was awful last night. He had his doors blown off almost every trip down in the 1st half. about 20 of the 42 points in the paint they had are on him. All that said, I'll use the same argument...it's one game. Eddren has done a much better job at not turning the ball over towards the end of last season and in the exhibition and BYU games. I also believe he didn't turn it over last night either. He needs to look to shoot more and get more of the other guys involved, but I'll take his experience at thsi point until I see more of DSE. happy?
Totally agree, wizard.
I loved what DSE showed last night...he's a bigger guard, he played great defense, wasn't tentative on his outside shot, and was really strong and fearless when taking the ball to the hoop...
I realize he is a freshman and this is only one game...but we need players with that kind of skillset on the floor...guys that have the ability to be a threat from the outside and can break down a defense and finish at the rim...
Without this type of multi-dimensional player on the floor, we become a very passive team that is easy to defend...and not to pile on Eddren here, but he just hasn't shown the abilty to be any type of threat on offense right now...and until that changes and he shows the ability to hit an outside shot or to penetrate and finish at the rim, I don't see how he can be given significant minutes...
I loved what DSE showed last night...he's a bigger guard, he played great defense, wasn't tentative on his outside shot, and was really strong and fearless when taking the ball to the hoop...
I realize he is a freshman and this is only one game...but we need players with that kind of skillset on the floor...guys that have the ability to be a threat from the outside and can break down a defense and finish at the rim...
Without this type of multi-dimensional player on the floor, we become a very passive team that is easy to defend...and not to pile on Eddren here, but he just hasn't shown the abilty to be any type of threat on offense right now...and until that changes and he shows the ability to hit an outside shot or to penetrate and finish at the rim, I don't see how he can be given significant minutes...
Well Said
More well said
EM played pretty poorly. However, I do not like the idea of a freshman running the O...not to mention a freshman that has had 1 good game against a "middle of the pack team"
IF you're ranking the 3 PGs...you gotta break it down a bit:
skills:
DSE
EM
SM
Leadership:
SM
DSE
EM
A/TO Ratio:
EM
DSE
SM
(IMO...welcome to start the debate on these)
PG's need to be a leader to set the tone for the game...do we want a freshman who has had 1 good game against a middle of the road team? Or a 3 year veteran who has played in big games against: MSU, UofI, Drake, Creighton, ISU, SIU and many others.
Not taking anything away from DSE...great talent, can't wait to have him for another 4 years.
but why rush the starting, let's give him some big bench minutes
I guess I would only remind fans of what is called the "backup quarterback syndrome".
Freshman often are hailed as saviors because of one or two good showings. Remember J.J. Tauai's impressive performance in the Red-White scrimmage his freshman year? He never quite lived up to expectations some fans had for him. And though not a freshman, Tyrone Cole-Scott looked awesome in his first game (exhibition against Augustana).
I expect DSE to get more playing time and he'll eventually be a very good player, but he'll have his ups and downs. I hope people won't be too hard on him if he isn't as consistent as Dodie would have been.
Freshman often are hailed as saviors because of one or two good showings. Remember J.J. Tauai's impressive performance in the Red-White scrimmage his freshman year? He never quite lived up to expectations some fans had for him. And though not a freshman, Tyrone Cole-Scott looked awesome in his first game (exhibition against Augustana).
I expect DSE to get more playing time and he'll eventually be a very good player, but he'll have his ups and downs. I hope people won't be too hard on him if he isn't as consistent as Dodie would have been.
houstontxbrave
New member
After looking at the box score, it is very impressive that we only had 8 turnovers in our 2nd game of the season. Excellent that our guards are taking care of the ball.
McCain, his biggest liablity is he simply does not look to shoot the ball, he reminds me of Billy Wright after Wright had the injury to his eye, he simply stopped shooting the ball. There was an instance in the 2nd half where EM had moved to an open area about 10 feet out and instead of rising up and scoring he continued to dribble until he was under the basket and then passed to Warren for a 3 pt shot. He has to shoot the ball.
It was an early season game and we played likely less then 35 hours after a game on the road in Utah. No excuses but playing essentially a back to back is not easy especially in game 2. I fully expect a much better effort next Sunday.
McCain, his biggest liablity is he simply does not look to shoot the ball, he reminds me of Billy Wright after Wright had the injury to his eye, he simply stopped shooting the ball. There was an instance in the 2nd half where EM had moved to an open area about 10 feet out and instead of rising up and scoring he continued to dribble until he was under the basket and then passed to Warren for a 3 pt shot. He has to shoot the ball.
It was an early season game and we played likely less then 35 hours after a game on the road in Utah. No excuses but playing essentially a back to back is not easy especially in game 2. I fully expect a much better effort next Sunday.
Agreed...it is only one game...and there is no reason to believe that DSE won't have the normal "good night-bad night" type of year that most freshman go through. He isn't "the answer", I don't think he should be starting for us at this point...I'd actually like to see a starting lineup of SM, CR, AW, TB, and WE...with DSE being the first guard off the bench...
I know that there are a lot of people out here that are firmly in Eddren's camp and think he should continue playing major minutes, but I just don't see it at this point...I can see him as a nice depth guy off the bench that can come in and give us a lot of energy on the defensive end in spots, but he just is bringing so little to the game on the offensive end right now...The fact that he isn't turning the ball over is nice...but he isn't shooting well, he isn't looking to take the ball to the rim off of penetration, and if those trends continue, Valley teams will be sagging off of him all game long, they won't respect his penetration attempts, and that will make things doubly difficult on the perimeter for the other guys on the floor...
SaintLouBrave22
New member
Great points and I agree w/ your lineup although I am not sold on Sammy being our PG either as he dribbles way too much, forces shots, and moves across the floor with his head down. BUT at this point, Sammy should get the nod with DSE getting plenty of minutes off the bench. Also, the good thing about DSE is that he's a bigger guard so we can play him and Sammy together and move Sammy to the 2 where I think he fits better despite his size.
Eddren is going to start having instances like last year where guys just dare him to shoot and its going to make our offense even worse if they just start doubling Andrew or throwing a zone where they sag off him because he's so deficient on offense...
He needs to get better on both ends of the floor if he continues to play quality minutes.
Not only that, the team needs consistency, and thats why Roberts and Warren should always be in the starting 5.
Also, I will just say that it will be a tough year if the coach continues to eliminate the teams momentum through poor substitution and rotation patterns.
Not quite sure about that! He was taking his guy around to the baseline where there seemed to be no help at all. I for one do not like the baseline help type D because what you are counting on is a mobile big to come over and help and our bigs have proven that they are not to mobile. All those layups from Idaho were made from the baseline side, so either our guys defending the ball are not quick enough to stop the baseline drive or there should be a big there waiting for that drive. Let's not start blaming the first guy for all the problems there. This is a team game and I bet there are plenty of guys to blame.
BTW...with the the bigs we have I have always said we need to drive the ball to the middle. This way we are not asking our bigs to move all that much which seems to be a problem. Just maybe our bigs are not mobile or big enough for this type of D.:?
houstontxbrave
New member
I agree I am certain he is playing his man to force him left, to the baseline needing a person to slide down cut off the baseline and make that guard either try to shoot over a big or have to turn and make a pass back to the wing.
If you take a guy and push him towards the lane, first off if he is right handed it is an easier shot to rise up while going right to shoot, but there are also more passing options when a guy goes to the lane especially if he is driving with his right hand, assuming he is right handed. We have to do a better job of getting the ball out of the lane and especailly off the block. To often last night guards got to the rim on drives. Part of the is our guards playing better on the ball defense but part of that is our interior defenders not moving and cutting off the guard.
I didnt think EM's d was poor last night our team d overall was poor. We dont help and we really look lost when we went zone, they had no problems swinging the ball and finding an open shooter.
We are a work in progress but I do expect better helpside defense especially from veteran players.