Let me first say that I will be the first to admit that Matt Salley has his flaws. I have never seen someone miss so many chip shots as Matt Salley. Toward the begining of the season I would agree with you that DC should start over MS. But at the current time, I cant find a reason to give DC significant minutes over Salley. I am saying this because based on recent performances, DC has looked incredibly soft and lost on the floor. I think that DC should get some minutes.(maybe 4-5 minutes per game to fill in until he shows something)imo If DC shows something during the limited pt then adjust the time upward. I hope DC does show something as I think that this team could turn around their record with solid contributions from DC. I have said earlier on this board that I think that Rashad Austin has the potential to be a better player than MS by years end so I am definately of the mode that if it aint broke we dont fix it. But like it or not, I think that Matt Salley is our better alternative at the current time. :-|
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Sam Singh
- Thread starter Big Mike
- Start date
Let me first say that I will be the first to admit that Matt Salley has his flaws. I have never seen someone miss so many chip shots as Matt Salley. Toward the begining of the season I would agree with you that DC should start over MS. But at the current time, I cant find a reason to give DC significant minutes over Salley. I am saying this because based on recent performances, DC has looked incredibly soft and lost on the floor. I think that DC should get some minutes.(maybe 4-5 minutes per game to fill in until he shows something)imo If DC shows something during the limited pt then adjust the time upward. I hope DC does show something as I think that this team could turn around their record with solid contributions from DC. I have said earlier on this board that I think that Rashad Austin has the potential to be a better player than MS by years end so I am definately of the mode that if it aint broke we dont fix it. But like it or not, I think that Matt Salley is our better alternative at the current time. :-|
houstontxbrave
New member
I honestly think he plays because JL trusts him to be where he wants him on both ends of the court. And he probably likes his physical presense. I just do not think JL trusts Collins.
Jim said (on his show tonught) that right now, DC is currently only set to get PT in the event of foul trouble or injury
houstontxbrave
New member
He talked for a while about DC's minutes, but didn't really say anything new. He continued to say that minutes in games are based on performance in practice, and that he didn't really believe in the theory that some players are just not good practice players, but are "gamers".
Dallas Brave
New member
This is the part that is hard for me to fully understand.
I'm all for players working hard in practice, showing a good attitude, being part of the team, etc... But, this team only has two players who should be playing the 5 spot. They are DC and SS. So, its not like TW or JC or one of the guards should be taking game minutes away from DC because of practice effort. The players fight for minutes within their position. Only SS should be taking minutes from DC.
The team has two centers. One of them should be on the floor most of the time during regular play of a game. Obviously, if we are behind several points with limited time left in a game, we're going to load up with the 3 point shooters, but in the course of normal play, either SS or DC should be on the court. SS can't go 40 minutes ... therefore DC should be playing when SS isn't.
I don't fully subscribe to this "game minutes for practice effort" thing. How does a coaching staff develop a game plan for an upcoming game if they don't know what type of lineup they are going go with???? It can't get decided each week based on practice effort, especially when there is more than one game in a week.
Dallas Brave
New member
The other point I'll make while I'm on my soap box is that the "game minutes for practice effort" makes it sound like the full burden of playing is on the shoulders of the players. There is some responsibility on the coaches to take a longer view of things and work at developing the players into the best "team of players" and that takes multiple games to develop. Maybe small ball was a failed attempt at the long-view and the coaches attribute that lineup to players earning it via playing time rather than it being the coaching strategy.
I love JL as the coach and hope he is at BU for a long, long time ... but there has to be more to his approach for developing a line up and and a game plan then just who is practicing well in any given week.
DC minutes
DC minutes
I think what Jim said was that in practice our bigs go at each other in drills and game situations... He said that is where game minutes are earned and if can not impress our staff
against Salley,Austin,Wilson,Singh...Why should he get to play on game night in front of 9000 people?
DC minutes
I think what Jim said was that in practice our bigs go at each other in drills and game situations... He said that is where game minutes are earned and if can not impress our staff
against Salley,Austin,Wilson,Singh...Why should he get to play on game night in front of 9000 people?
You are correct Toyota. We have a window to win some games this season albeit a small window. The rotation for our bigs last Saturday gives us the best chance for a win. Bottom line, DC hasnt shown anything when he has game minutes and DC hasnt shown anything in practice.
Dallas Brave
New member
I think I can answer that.
The reason he needs to be on the floor is because his team needs him out there. We are 17 games into the season and winning the battle of the boards is critical for this team to win games. Here is BU’s record based on how the team did on the boards:
8-2: record when BU out-rebounds opponent
0-2: record when BU ties opponent for rebounds
0-5: record when opponent out-rebounds BU
There are 80 minutes to be allocated to the 4 and 5 spot each game. I simply don’t believe that DC’s effort is so poor in practice that he should not get any playing time in the games. And it hurts this team that he is not out there for 15+ minutes a game.
Sam Singh played 0 minutes in the first game against UNI. Two weeks later he plays 16 minutes. I don’t believe that the dramatic difference between these two games was because Sam happened to practice better in the week leading up to the second game. I’m hoping that the coaching staff made some adjustments and Sam’s playing wasn’t arbitrarily determined because he had a couple of good practices.
The team is 8-9. We are not going to get an at-large bid to the NCAA this year. Our only hope is to regroup with the purpose of winning the MVC tournament which this team is capable of doing. In order to have a chance to win the tournament, we must put a team on the floor that can rebound and establish an inside presence. Being able to win the battle of the boards leads to a lot of secondary benefits like more open outside shots, better minute distribution among our guards (to keep the legs fresh), fewer second chances for the opposing team, etc… DC must be played each game to keep developing him with the tournament in mind.
DC is not perfect … if he was, he wouldn’t be at BU. So you can’t simply bench the guy because he makes some mistakes. If absence of mistakes was necessary to stay on the floor, every player would be benched. He has to play to get better and this team needs him as indicated by the W-L records above. Maybe I would be barking up the wrong tree if he hadn’t played enough early on to see the contribution he can make, but he has and we have seen it.
Jim Les, Eric Buescher, Alvin Brooks, and Steve Merfeld do not agree with you on either of these points...I'll trust them on this one.
It would be great if we had an effective 7-footer that could help us on the boards, defend, and give us a post presence on offense...obviously DC is not capable of doing any of these things right now based on the coaching staff's comments and his lack of playing time.
And like another poster mentioned...If Collins gets the opportunity every day in practice to prove himself against Salley, Singh, and Austin...and he loses all of those battles, I certainly don't want him getting 15+ minutes a game in conference games. That would hurt the team.
Hopefully he works hard in the offseason and gets himself where he needs to be to contribute next year...
I think that the question now is how do we put a guy on the floor like DC who as of right now for whatever reason doesnt get the system? I think the answer now is to coach him up in practice and put him out on the floor in small time increments. if he is productive then adjust the pt upward.
Dallas Brave
New member
8-2: record when BU out-rebounds opponent
DC average minutes: 11.6 minutes
Actual minutes by game (13,8,18,12,15,14,15,13,17,0)
0-2: record when BU ties opponent for rebounds
DC average minutes: 8.5
Actual minutes by game (17,2)
0-5: record when opponent out-rebounds BU
DC average minutes: 4.8
Actual minutes by game (13,8,0,0,3)
The number speak for themself. Do we, or do we not, want to get more rebounds than the teams we are playing?
DC average minutes: 11.6 minutes
Actual minutes by game (13,8,18,12,15,14,15,13,17,0)
0-2: record when BU ties opponent for rebounds
DC average minutes: 8.5
Actual minutes by game (17,2)
0-5: record when opponent out-rebounds BU
DC average minutes: 4.8
Actual minutes by game (13,8,0,0,3)
The number speak for themself. Do we, or do we not, want to get more rebounds than the teams we are playing?
The numbers are great, but they do not 'speak for themselves'...There is more to this playing time argument than just the quantitative analysis. There is a qualitative analysis of DC that goes on every day in practice...Our coaching staff's qualitative assessment of DC is that he is not playing well enough, is not physically or mentally ready to provide quality minutes for this team right now...regardless of what your numbers might be trying to say to the contrary.
Your numbers simply tell me that this team needs to rebound well to give itself a chance to win...It doesn't tell me that David Collins is essential to this pursuit. We won the last game on the road...we outrebounded them...DC didn't play at all. DC could have played 40 minutes against Michigan State and we would have still been outrebounded and we still would have lost the game...So, I guess I'm just saying that I don't think you can look at those numbers and develop a solid relationship between Collins playing, BU winning on the boards, and BU winning the game. For the most part...Collins was playing more early in the year, the teams we played were lousy and overmatched physically by us, so we won some of those games and rebounded well...
Collins showed flashes of potential early...yes. But he has shown nothing in his limited time in games recently, and he obviously hasn't shown anything in the hundreds of hours of practices that would lead anyone to believe that he would be successful if he were thrown into games at this point. That's the reality of where we are now and where David Collins is now. The fact that he looked good two months ago against SEMO, Florida Gulf Coast, or UM-ES really doesn't mean a lot when it comes to playing the right people for this team right now.
Dubl R 1
Active member
Ooooh Ooooh I know, I know Pick me
J/k Dallas.This is a perplexing issue. It does seem BU had more rebounding, and more overall success when DC was in the regular rotation, however the coaching staff ( I'm guessing) does not think it beneficial for the team to have DC in there. I'm actually in favor of DC getting more minutes too, as it was obviously not costing BU games when he was playing more minutes.
Now the flipside to this is, that we (the average fan), well at least me, does not know what goes on in practice everyday or in film sessions or in team meetings. Maybe, and I stress Maybe, because I don't know, DC is not progressing or doing what's being asked of him by JL and the coaches, and if he can't grasp the system, maybe they feel they can't trust him in a game. We may never know, but that's why BU hires a coach who they feel can make good decisions with regards to what's beneficial to the basketball program. This is coah Les' decision, and as long as he is coach, that's all that counts.
ER3, we are thinking along the same lines here. I liked Dallas' breakdown of the numbers at first but I stated after the Wichita St game that we could get the same type of rebounding numbers with Austin in the lineup.
I was curious as to DC's rebounds vs opponents RPI.
29% of DC's rebounds for the year came from the Maryland Eastern Shore game.
(14 rebounds in in 18 minutes against a bad team with a 334 rpi.
here is the breakdown..RPI is from Ken Pomroy's site today.
UIC-- 4 rebounds, 13 minutes 142 RPI
Iowa ST-- 1 rebound 8 minutes 141 rpi
Maryland Eastern Shore- 14 rebounds, 18 minutes, 334 rpi
FL Gulf Coast--5 rebounds 12 minutes 277 rpi
Iowa--3 rebounds 15 minutes--183 rpi
Vanderbilt--5 rebounds, 17 minutes--12 rpi
Loyola--1 rebound, 14 minutes, 295 rpi
SEMO-3 rebounds 15 minutes 223 rpi
Michigan St--4 rebounds 13 minutes 10 rpi
Wright ST, 7 rebounds 17 minutes 83 rpi
Butler 0 rebounds, 2 minutes 17 rpi
VCU-0 rebounds 6 minutes 65 rpi
UNI-1 rebound 8 minutes 149 rpi
SIU-0 reboounds 3 minutes 97 rpi
DC didnt play the other games...
Clearly DC's best games with quality opposition were against Michigan St, Vanderbilt, and Wright State. Since the Butler game, he has hit the wall. This is why I think we ease DC back into the lineup and adjust his minutes accordingly.
I was curious as to DC's rebounds vs opponents RPI.
29% of DC's rebounds for the year came from the Maryland Eastern Shore game.
(14 rebounds in in 18 minutes against a bad team with a 334 rpi.
here is the breakdown..RPI is from Ken Pomroy's site today.
UIC-- 4 rebounds, 13 minutes 142 RPI
Iowa ST-- 1 rebound 8 minutes 141 rpi
Maryland Eastern Shore- 14 rebounds, 18 minutes, 334 rpi
FL Gulf Coast--5 rebounds 12 minutes 277 rpi
Iowa--3 rebounds 15 minutes--183 rpi
Vanderbilt--5 rebounds, 17 minutes--12 rpi
Loyola--1 rebound, 14 minutes, 295 rpi
SEMO-3 rebounds 15 minutes 223 rpi
Michigan St--4 rebounds 13 minutes 10 rpi
Wright ST, 7 rebounds 17 minutes 83 rpi
Butler 0 rebounds, 2 minutes 17 rpi
VCU-0 rebounds 6 minutes 65 rpi
UNI-1 rebound 8 minutes 149 rpi
SIU-0 reboounds 3 minutes 97 rpi
DC didnt play the other games...
Clearly DC's best games with quality opposition were against Michigan St, Vanderbilt, and Wright State. Since the Butler game, he has hit the wall. This is why I think we ease DC back into the lineup and adjust his minutes accordingly.
Dallas Brave
New member
Well there's nothing like a good ol' debate while whittling sticks on the front porch of the general store I say.
My whole point above, is that the "team" plays better and has a better chance of winning more games when DC is part of the mix. It doesn't necessarily show up in his individual stats, but the team results are what is most important.
Anyway, I'm off to work after a morning of coffee and reflection.
My whole point above, is that the "team" plays better and has a better chance of winning more games when DC is part of the mix. It doesn't necessarily show up in his individual stats, but the team results are what is most important.
Anyway, I'm off to work after a morning of coffee and reflection.
BUBraves06
New member
I think this is the biggest issue. Like you said, we'll never know for sure, but I think it's safe to assume that DC isn't doing what the coaches are asking for him in practice because his playing time has evaporated. That's a shame really because we certainly could use another big body down low.
Another issue that may be part of the problem that I don't think has been mentioned is that Lennox was the coach who worked with our bigs. I'm sure whoever took over that role for Lennox is doing a good job, but it's something to think about. I guess that goes outside of DC though because he's in his first year at BU, but I think the play of our bigs hasn't been up to par with the past few seasons.