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"Shocking" score

B

BUSongwriter

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Wichita State demolishing Washington State in the NIT semis, 64-34, on ESPN2.

Announcers pointed out that Wichita played two Final Four teams -- lost to UConn by four in Hawaii, and lost by one in the BracketBuster to VCU.

What might have been! How did ISU Blue beat this team in STL?

Maybe the Valley wasn't as "down" this year as some of us thought.
 
BUSongwriter said:
Wichita State demolishing Washington State in the NIT semis, 64-34, on ESPN2.

Announcers pointed out that Wichita played two Final Four teams -- lost to UConn by four in Hawaii, and lost by one in the BracketBuster to VCU.

What might have been! How did ISU Blue beat this team in STL?

Maybe the Valley wasn't as "down" this year as some of us thought.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of it is relative in terms of which teams are actually the best.

We all know that when small conference teams beat each other up, that is bad. But when large conference teams beat each other up, that reflects the "high quality" of the teams playing there.

But perhaps in reality the Big East contained teams with lots of inflated records as a result of playing lots of subpar teams in the regular season, while the Valley played tougher teams (whether the conference SOS reflected that or not), and are much better than some said! The fact that the ninth place team in the Big East and the fourth place team from the CAA making the Final Four is irrelevant now. It's whether the right teams were chosen in the first place.

Despite losing to both UConn and VCU, any team that loses by a combined six points to those two teams can't be all that bad! But Wichita St never got the chance to prove themselves on the big stage only because of conference affiliation.

Some things never change! :roll:
 
TheAsianSensation said:
Criticizing Big East schedules while praising MVC schedules seems a little silly to me, honestly.
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Okay, maybe not the best example, but we have seen several times just this year how competitive the mid-majors have been this year. But, particularly in the case of Missouri St, sometimes just because a team does not have quality non-conference wins should not always disqualify them from tournament consideration. There were plenty of mid level BCS teams that could have been passed over in favor of a few other mid-majors, and that was my point. Maybe the Big East was not the greatest example, but I think you get an idea of what I meant.
 
Bravesfan said:
Okay, maybe not the best example, but we have seen several times just this year how competitive the mid-majors have been this year. But, particularly in the case of Missouri St, sometimes just because a team does not have quality non-conference wins should not always disqualify them from tournament consideration. There were plenty of mid level BCS teams that could have been passed over in favor of a few other mid-majors, and that was my point. Maybe the Big East was not the greatest example, but I think you get an idea of what I meant.
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I do get the idea. Now we just need to convince the selection committee about it :lol:
 
I may be remembering this wrong, but the year after the MVC got 4 teams in and 2 made the sweet 16, there was a bit of an NCAA backlash as to how the MVC had "cracked the code" and the next year the number of at large bids given to the non-BCS schools dropped significantly. My guess is if the NCAA winner comes from the VCU-Butler bracket you can count on a similar knee jerk reaction. :twisted:
 
It would be pretty cool for Butler/VCU to win the NCAA tourney, WSU to win the NIT, Creighton to win the CBI, and a midmajor win the CIT. Mid-Major sweep of the post-season tournaments!
 
Considering a play-in team has made it this far, does it not surprise anybody that a 16 seed will actually do what we think is the unthinkable?
 
Wichita actually had each of these teams beat. They were up 8 on Uconn with 2 minutes to go and blew the game. Against VCU, there was a very questionable foul call with .8 seconds left in the game which gave VCU 2 free throws and the 1 point win.
 
I can't help but wonder how many other VCUs or Butlers there might have been if the NCAA selection committee would allow the top teams in every conference to get bids. Does anyone doubt that Wichita State (or Missouri State) would have been capable of pulling a couple "upsets", or maybe even advancing as far as VCU or Butler?

For the MVC to not get their #1 team and their #2 team into the NCAA tournament is appalling, especially when one conference got their 11th place team in, and a number of teams with conference records of .500 or lower got in.
 
This year's Final Four shows exactly why the tournament needs to expand even further but not with more at-large bids. The regular season should mean something for the mid majors and low majors, so the regular season champion in addition to the conference tournament champion should automatically qualify for the NCAA. Basically, this just sweeps in a good number of the teams that were sent to the NIT because they lost their conference tourney. So, this would mean a potential of 62 automatic qualifiers, if no regular season champ won their conference tournament. You then use at large teams to fill out the field to 96. I would then put one more wrinkle into the whole thing, which would never happen because it could create some strange first round match-ups, but I would give all conference tournament champions automatic byes into the second round. Eventually the Great West Conference will get to have an auto-bid, so that would give you 32 first round byes. This just adds a little more excitement to some of those major conference tournaments knowing that a bye is on the line. Of course, seeing how VCU did this year with having to play in the first round, maybe teams wouldn't want the bye.
 
bugregshu said:
It would be pretty cool for Butler/VCU to win the NCAA tourney, WSU to win the NIT, Creighton to win the CBI, and a midmajor win the CIT. Mid-Major sweep of the post-season tournaments!
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That's pretty amazing to think of!
It's on the same level as StLBrave sweeping the Bradleyfans Pick 'em contest for 1H, 2H, and Full season. Now it didn't actually happen, but it was close! Just ridiculous to think of...both cases! :D
 
For a down year in the Valley, it could be a memorable post-season for the league. NO, not as memorable as the 2005-'-06 season, but I might remember in 2020 that 2011 was that season that our league reeked, but still won 2 post-season tournaments!
 
bugregshu said:
It would be pretty cool for Butler/VCU to win the NCAA tourney, WSU to win the NIT, Creighton to win the CBI, and a midmajor win the CIT. Mid-Major sweep of the post-season tournaments!
Click to expand...

Two of em are MVC teams as well! :) Even though no one really cares about two of the four and others are constantly trying to put down the NIT. Even though I'm young, I still have tremendous respect for the NIT. Stupid that people put it down so much. Look at where UNC ended up last year... and losing. :oops:
 
Da Coach said:
I can't help but wonder how many other VCUs or Butlers there might have been if the NCAA selection committee would allow the top teams in every conference to get bids. Does anyone doubt that Wichita State (or Missouri State) would have been capable of pulling a couple "upsets", or maybe even advancing as far as VCU or Butler?

For the MVC to not get their #1 team and their #2 team into the NCAA tournament is appalling, especially when one conference got their 11th place team in, and a number of teams with conference records of .500 or lower got in.
Click to expand...

I agree with this completely DC.Wichita and Mo. St could have made some noise in this year's tournament, but then Kent State would have been in the tournament and we would have been still looking for a coach sooooooo........ Maybe in worked in our favor!
 
Da Coach said:
For the MVC to not get their #1 team and their #2 team into the NCAA tournament is appalling, especially when one conference got their 11th place team in, and a number of teams with conference records of .500 or lower got in.
Click to expand...


I'm all for the spirit, but given the criteria of .500 conference records or worse getting in....this year was actually one of the best years ever for not selecting anyone under .500 and leaving out plenty of .500 teams.
 
Couple of random responses to other posts:

1) The Great West will never get the 32nd auto-bid - they need to maintain a core group of members in conference for several years for the NCAA to improve them, and there's already basically a handshake deal that all of those teams are looking for a more permanent conference and that the Great West is not the destination. Don't worry about them.

2) I'm all for bragging for mid-majors in general, but let's not cite the "winning all 4 tournaments" as relevant. Cite the big two tournaments. But I sure hope the midmajors sweep the CIT and CBI when there's all of one non-midmajor team in both tournaments combined :lol:
 
Also, the NCAA leaves it up for each conference to select their automatic qualifier. Everyone goes to the tournament route to decide it. The simple counter to "the NCAA should let all the regular season conference champs" is, "Just do what the Ivy does, and then you get your best shot at making noise in the tournament".

And if the MVC wants to get an at-large, their teams should stop pissing away every possible quality win.


I probably sound like a Bilas, but you all know my heart is in the mid-major camp. We just need to be careful with these arguments. Mid majors shouldn't get bids just for the sake of taking away from the big boys.
 
TAS, we all know why all of the conferences except the Ivy have the postseason conference tournaments decide the autobid. It generates interest and more importantly more $ for the conference. If the conference tourneys did not generate more money for the conferences, then I am sure they would get rid of them. I am still not sure why the Ivy choses to not have a conference tournament. Maybe they actually have real student athletes who don't want to miss more classes then they already do. :)

I do think there are some fringe teams in the BIG 6 conferences that really did not belong this year that should have been replaced my mid-majors, but I understand how the selection of these teams works. I just think expanding the tournament to allow more good midmajors in it would be a good thing. I would have liked to have seen Missouri St., Witchita St., Harvard, Milwaukee and some others in the dance. I could have done without Michigan St. and Clemson and a few other mediocre Big 6 teams. No matter how many teams are in the tourney the Big 6 will always get more than their fair share of teams in, so I really don't think we need to be worried about them.
 
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