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Support Bradley Basketball-UPDATE

answer is quite clear, and I will make it clearer.
I am not worried about boogie-men or monsters under the bed, but the simple fact is that there is an anti-BU bias.
I have seen it for 35 years.
Other schools always seem to have some grudge against BU moreso than anything at all the other way around.

Since it wasn't me who made it public about the NCAA investigators who WERE ON CAMPUS ALREADY CHECKING INTO ALLEGATIONS THAT PROVED FALSE
then here is an example of something, clearly documented that I can't recall ever hearing about this same thing happening anywhere else ever.
Usually NCAA investigators show up in a big scandal or when ample evidence has already been widely seen and known.
But we know from BU sources and from PJ Star sources that someone had ratted on BU with false claims.

I would like to see even a drop of evidence that, as you say, it is happening everywhere else.
I know for a fact it is not.

BU is being hit with unfair attacks and are being force to defend against false charges, I have noted 2 such examples, now you give me one within the last decade elsewhere.
 
tornado said:
answer is quite clear, and I will make it clearer.
I am not worried about boogie-men or monsters under the bed, but the simple fact is that there is an anti-BU bias.
I have seen it for 35 years.
Other schools always seem to have some grudge against BU moreso than anything at all the other way around.

Since it wasn't me who made it public about the NCAA investigators who WERE ON CAMPUS ALREADY CHECKING INTO ALLEGATIONS THAT PROVED FALSE
then here is an example of something, clearly documented that I can't recall ever hearing about this same thing happening anywhere else ever.
Usually NCAA investigators show up in a big scandal or when ample evidence has already been widely seen and known.
But we know from BU sources and from PJ Star sources that someone had ratted on BU with false claims.

I would like to see even a drop of evidence that, as you say, it is happening everywhere else.
I know for a fact it is not.

BU is being hit with unfair attacks and are being force to defend against false charges, I have noted 2 such examples, now you give me one within the last decade elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Most FALSE accusations aren't made public, as they are just that - FALSE. However, I guess your database has access to all complaints and accusations made to every school in the NCAA. I find that amazing. That must be quite a database. :roll:

Here are three that took place recently, one very similar to BU, and one that involves BU.

Some former players accuse improprieties taking place in the Fairfield basketball program in 2003.

http://www.fairfieldmirror.com/medi...orewrite&sourcedomain=www.fairfieldmirror.com

What a suprise, similar to BU, no major infractions were found. Just 'extra benefits'. Would this 'not count' against Fairfield? It sounds very similar to BU.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/co...investigation_finds_no_major_ncaa_violations/

A former UL-Lafayette recruit accusses the program of improprieties in 2004, none of which have been proven -

http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27100

Even our beloved BU filed tampering charges against UW-Milwaukee for Joah Tucker, and nothing was proven.

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/ssections/2004/hoops/111804/HOO_B4MDHA5T.071.shtml

So yes, it does happen other places than just Bradley. As much as you may think it Tornado, you are not omnipitent and all-knowing. These are just a few examples of accusations being made against schools, and supports the notion that there are even more accusations made all the time that aren't made public. I have to look no further than our own BU to support this notion.

But back on topic :) - Support Bradley Basketball! Bleed Bradley red like I do! Pack the place on Saturday night and give our seniors the send off they deserve, and go down to St. Louis and cheer on our team. I certainly will be. Our guys can use all the support they can get. Hopefully our love will be finally rewarded with an NCAA bid!
 
but you have effectively agreed with my point.
You said they happen everywhere, I said they are generally quite rare, and by doing a little digging you found a smattering of a few widely spaced, no two at the same school.

But my point was of several (I can cite the actual number but won't) in a very short span at JUST ONE PLACE, good old Bradley University.
In other words, you showed that lightning does indeed strike once in a while here and there, but I cited that lightning has struck 4 times in the same place in a short interval, so unusual that it has certain people looking for ways to stop information leaks, which is exactly why I won't say any more than I already have.

This is your quote, not mine:

BradleyBrave said:
...
There are false allegations made about schools all the time.
...
It happens everywhere Tornado, not just at BU.
...
Click to expand...

I stand by my statement that BU has been the recipient of unfair, unfounded, and purposely malicious attacks and allegations, by certain people who have a bias against the university. I have seen and believe sufficient evidence, and I suspect the evidence would be convincing should you be willing to view it open mindedly.
But you are entitled to think it is going on everywhere, even when it's not.
Even tho BU knew of Jerry Wainwright's violation of NCAA, it was NOT BU who called the NCAA, it was someone else who read the story in the newspaper and saw DePaul scrambling for spin and in deflect mode who alerted the NCAA.
Most allegations to the NCAA have some basis, even when some are proven false, but BU has been the recipient of several such blatantly false attacks, that they've been cleared without investigation each time.

As I even said elsewhere, I have even more evidence but choose not to go openly with it.
 
tornado said:
but you have effectively agreed with my point.
You said they happen everywhere, I said they are generally quite rare, and by doing a little digging you found a smattering of a few widely spaced, no two at the same school.

But my point was of several (I can cite the actual number but won't) in a very short span at JUST ONE PLACE, good old Bradley University.
In other words, you showed that lightning does indeed strike once in a while here and there, but I cited that lightning has struck 4 times in the same place in a short interval, so unusual that it has certain people looking for ways to stop information leaks, which is exactly why I won't say any more than I already have.

This is your quote, not mine:

BradleyBrave said:
...
There are false allegations made about schools all the time.
...
It happens everywhere Tornado, not just at BU.
...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Nice try at the spin. I don't think too many will buy it though.

Answer this - How do you know that there weren't prior allegations made to each of those schools? The thing is, you don't. Don't pretend that you do. You don't know the administrations or insiders at Fairfield or UL-Lafayette, nor the people making the accusations. You are speaking under the assumption that NOTHING has ever happened at any of those other schools prior to these publicized incidents. You are also assuming that there aren't false accusations being made at other institutions that aren't being publicized yet, or never will be. Assuming these contentions to be true would be false, and claiming you know that they're true is a lie.

You asked for incidents in the last decade, in fact you asked for 2. I produced 3 almost instantly (I like to go above and beyond) that occured in the past 3 years, and I could have listed more had I wanted to go back further. It didn't take any 'digging'. It's not 'lightning striking occasionally', it's showing that these things happen very regularly (3 incidents in 3 years off the top of my head, probably more). But somehow I have proven YOUR point? Try again.

You tried to portray this whole situation as unique to BU, when in fact it is not at all. The facts speak for themselves.

Now back to the topic, after a spirited discussion. Support BU this Saturday as we close out our home season with a big win over recent nemesis Drake. Go BU! :)
 
[quote="tornado"

You can believe or choose not to believe what you want, but it is a dog-eat-dog, competitive world out there in college basketball, and lots of slams, lies, and attacks are being spread.
Some of it became quite public and "over the top" 3 years ago when one kid showed up at a press conference and alledged charges of cruelty, racism, and slavery toward Bradley, or did you conveniently forget that incident which coincidentaly had no other independent evidence to support any of the attacks.

It's pretty much there in black and white, but if you don't see it, then I guess you never will.
BU fans are the strongest supporters you'll find anywhere.
For the size of the school, you'll find precious few who support their team the way good BU fans do,quote]



Tornado...Wow...first of all I never said I didnt believe anything you said. I said I hadnt seen that kind of behavior and was unaware..but I suppose anything is possible

Second of all you say its a dog eat dog world in the competitve world of college basketball with lots of slams lies and attacks (your 3 favorite words apparently) But then you tell us that BU is the only school where this happens????

Thirdly I would venture to guess that I have been to as many BU games as you have through the years. I have ponied up my share of money for the program through the years and I have and do support the prgram, so I dont need you to tell me what kind of fans BU has.. I have been one of them for almost 40 years
 
Nope, BU is not the only school where it happens, but IS one of the few where an distinct aberration in the degree of it has been seen.
Of course it happens, as BB noted the infamous Bruce Pearl/Deon Thomas incident.
But I challenged him or anyone to find or name a school that had been hit with more than ONE such unfounded allegation over a short spam, and of course nobody has yet cited such an example, and never will.

EXCEPT--I can cite one.
It is Bradley University.
Feb. 2003, Officials at UNM and one ex-BU player made public statements alleging significant improprieties, even using inflammatory language, "abuse", "threats", "slavery".
As noted the NCAA found all such allegations to be without merit.
Then from 2004-2005 at least two separate allegations from competing schools led the NCAA to send personnell to BU campus to investigate, and all charges were found to be without merit. These fact have been made public and I suspect you saw them in the paper as well as I did.
While on campus last summer one of the NCAA investigators was VOLUNTARILY shown data by BU personnell that disclosed the payment irregularities by Star.
The NCAA investigator still cleared BU completely of all wrongdoing, but gave the info to the Student Compliance Committee of the NCAA which judged that penalties were in order for 2 players, but that wasn't what the original NCAA investigation was regarding.

You have to step back and ask---just why is BU getting these NCAA investigators coming on campus?
Doesn't that intrigue you?
The fact is they were on campus because someone else ratted, and BU was found fully innocent.
I know more but won't post it publicly, and as I said I even turned what I know from an independent source over to the proper people and it may have even been useful in exonerating BU, I don't know.

It is unfortunate that people have and hold grudges, but they dio, and Jim Les' comments last night that were the original topic in this thread confirms that it still prevails.
People can be really mean and do incredible things to try to hurt someone else, go figure.

Bottom line, not one allegation has stuck and BU is clean.
Jim Les has everything to be proud of and nothing to be ashamed of. I just think it's too bad that certain individuals find a need to be vindictive and malicious.

I won't discuss it further, as even the open mention of such things gets used against you. People assume the "where there's smoke there's fire" argument.
So end of discussion.
 
Well you brought it up so I guess you can end it. However I dont dispute hardly anything you say with the exception that it is unique to BU.
 
I believe it has more to do with the mid-majors getting slammmed for the smallest infractions and the BCS school getting away with actions that are questionable. Remeber when BU got slammed for DV getting a job for one of his players father at a car dealer. A year earlier I believe, Kansas hired Danny Mannings dad as a coach. You be the judge :!: There seems to be two different rules out there.
 
SanFranciscoPete said:
I believe it has more to do with the mid-majors getting slammmed for the smallest infractions and the BCS school getting away with actions that are questionable. ....
Click to expand...

I feel that you judge wisely, here, Pete.
Major schools with kids stealing computers and robbing other students, on campus alcohol, parties, and rapes, and drug possession, athletes driving Beamers and Porsches, and illegal contact of recruits (DePaul, New Mexico) seem repeatedly to have their woes swept under the carpet.
The very top schools (UConn, UofI, DePaul, etc.) with these violations recieve little or no punishment.

But if Bradley has a kid who gets a few more dollars for his summer job than would be the norm, or if some anonymous caller reports an impermissable contact over the summer, then the NCAA swarms in onto campus and digs through all the tiniest factoids until they find something to label a violation.
When Versace was coach (and you can still go online and read the NCAA findings) the very worst violation they could dig up even with virtually no evidence to confirm it was an "offer" of a job to a recruit's father and a free ride in a plane. That was it!!
And we were talking a very low level recruit, not a McDonalds All American.

This board has been a source for readers to see all the various improprieties that are going on, yet the only place the NCAA is digging for dirt (and read BradleyBraves' list of schools above) are Bradley, Fairfield, and UL-Lafayette!!
These are not the schools with the repeated violations.

Hey I suggest just one link to go back and read.
In this case, even though the guy admits to the violations, hundreds of them, and the NCAA is 100% convinced they need no more proof, they still have not handed down even the tiniest discipline years after the violations were committed and found!!
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=BKC-TRAMEL-01-18-06
http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9153113
http://www.bradleyfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1638
(read what you want but mainly check out the last 3-4 posts on the first page of this discussion)
 
I reserve the right to criticize performance of the team, players and coaching. That's what fans do. On the other hand, I completely abhor personal attacks on a coach or player based on the performance of the team. If you know them then you can feel free to have an opinion about their character... if, like me, you don't, then keep your criticisms aimed at the performance of the team.
 
At the risk of sounding self-serving, I just want to say...
I sent some e mail messages as I had described in the lead post of this thread. Go back and read what I first said then read the next couple paragraphs.

Last night after the game, I received a communication from the Director of Athletics, and whether you want to believe me or not, here is what he said.
He thanked me for the messages of encouragement on behalf of the players and the coaches, and said those words meant a lot and had a positive effect on encouraging the kids as they headed out on the road trip to Iowa.

I strongly suggest that any other interested fan do the same.
Just send a note or email. Send it to an individual player or two and it will seem more personal, or send it to the group.

I just want these kids and coaches to know how much their efforts and performances ARE appreciated.
 
Again, I want to urge all fine Bradley fans to e mail notes of your support and appreciation to the players and coaches.

I just did and received a personal e mail response from head coach Jim Les who says the support is greatly appeciated!

E mail through their direct e amil address or via Bobby Parker or Jim Les' secretary, Jackie Diemer.
If you address a message to one of the players, it can still go through these e mail addresses:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
 
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